Interesting thread on the Wooden Boat Magazine forum about New Jersey
being one of the first states to establish licensing for recreational
boat operators. I haven't tried to parse it to carefully (can't think
of any reason I would ever go to New Jersey, let alone stay there the
triggering 90 days) but it sounds like it could apply to non residents
or someone passing through (slowly).

Has anyone here been tracking this? NJ boat dealers must be having
cows and kittens all at the same time.

As a just (self) grounded private pilot, it does seem strange to go
out and do something that involves just as much responsibility and
requires just as much skill (at least to do safely) with out all the
training and oversight involved in flying aircraft. Boat licensing is
probably overdue but I still hate to see it coming up over the
horizon.

--
Roger Long

Reading more closely, it appears that you have to be able to present
written proof of having taken a safe boating course somewhere just to
pass through NJ. I guess my 45 year safe boating course wouldn't
count because I didn't get a certificate.

I'm glad I don't plan to go to NJ. The marina operators must love
this.

I'm just picking out of the WBM postings. Anybody actually looked
into this?

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
Reading more closely, it appears that you have to be able to present
written proof of having taken a safe boating course somewhere just to
pass through NJ. I guess my 45 year safe boating course wouldn't
count because I didn't get a certificate.

I'm glad I don't plan to go to NJ. The marina operators must love
this.

I'm just picking out of the WBM postings. Anybody actually looked
into this?


Here it's a National Program. Could stand to be enhanced.
http://www.theoperatorcard.ca/

Roger Long wrote:
Reading more closely, it appears that you have to be able to present
written proof of having taken a safe boating course somewhere just to
pass through NJ. I guess my 45 year safe boating course wouldn't
count because I didn't get a certificate.

I'm glad I don't plan to go to NJ. The marina operators must love
this.

I'm just picking out of the WBM postings. Anybody actually looked
into this?

Good reason to avoid this hell hole. Worst place I put in ever.

Let me see if I have this right ;;; you think the government should require
us to get a license to sail our boats.

The same government that can't control the borders, that allows illegal
tresspassing into our county by people from some **** ass crap hole like
Mexico.

That government is now going to tell us how to sail our boats!

F..k this ,,,, New Jersey is a ********. A corrupt ********.

Anyone who thinks that sailors need licenses it NUTS! F'king NUTS.

You need to go back up in that airplane. This time bring some oxygen with
you.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Interesting thread on the Wooden Boat Magazine forum about New Jersey
being one of the first states to establish licensing for recreational boat
operators. I haven't tried to parse it to carefully (can't think of any
reason I would ever go to New Jersey, let alone stay there the triggering
90 days) but it sounds like it could apply to non residents or someone
passing through (slowly).

Has anyone here been tracking this? NJ boat dealers must be having cows
and kittens all at the same time.

As a just (self) grounded private pilot, it does seem strange to go out
and do something that involves just as much responsibility and requires
just as much skill (at least to do safely) with out all the training and
oversight involved in flying aircraft. Boat licensing is probably overdue
but I still hate to see it coming up over the horizon.

--
Roger Long

"Jasper Windvane" wrote in message
news:V_YXf.3014$aW5.2591@trndny07...
Let me see if I have this right ;;; you think the government should
require us to get a license to sail our boats.

......


Anyone who thinks that sailors need licenses it NUTS! F'king NUTS.

You need to go back up in that airplane. This time bring some oxygen with
you.


Read the man's post:

Boat licensing is probably overdue
but I still hate to see it coming up over the horizon.

Where do you see he advocates licensing???

Give it a rest.

--
L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

Jasper Windvane wrote:
Let me see if I have this right ;;; you think the government should require
us to get a license to sail our boats.

The same government that can't control the borders, that allows illegal
tresspassing into our county by people from some **** ass crap hole like
Mexico.

That government is now going to tell us how to sail our boats!

F..k this ,,,, New Jersey is a ********. A corrupt ********.

Anyone who thinks that sailors need licenses it NUTS! F'king NUTS.

You need to go back up in that airplane. This time bring some oxygen with
you.


What is the downside of this? I'm all for it. (Well like you say, you
don't know how effectively it can possibly be enforced, but the idea is
still good.) Us PWC'ers have been the first segment of boating to be
subject to mandatory education requirements over the last five or six
years or so, we have been all for it from the beginning, and you should
track the statistics about how boating and pwc accidents and injuries
have declined in states that have instituted these kind of laws. Seems
like a no-brainer to me that one should be trained and licensed to
drive a boat just like for a car. Too easy for people to hop onto a
boat a make trouble for themselves and others without any knowledge of
the laws, safety procedures, anything. Less so for sailboats maybe
because they require more skills, experience, and training just to
operatie in the first place, but that doesn't mean they should be
arbitrarily exempted - in fact, it seems to me that it would suggest
that it's not really any additional burden for sailors because they're
probably getting educated and trained before they hit the water anyway.

richforman

wrote:
What is the downside of this? I'm all for it.

Well, sure. You're already stuck having to take classs and
get a license.

.... Us PWC'ers have been the first segment of boating to be
subject to mandatory education requirements over the last five or six
years or so, we have been all for it from the beginning,

Not all PWCers are "all for it" and there are still a lot of
jetski drivers who operate their boats dangerously &
offensively. Some do it even after taking classes & getting
licensed, seems like they consider it part of the fun.

The reason why PWC's were the first to be regulated & to
have a license required was due to the large number of
incidents wherein PWC drivers injured others. Injuring
yourself is not the state's business IMHO.



.... it seems to me that it would suggest
that it's not really any additional burden for sailors because they're
probably getting educated and trained before they hit the water anyway.


Yeah, let's just go ahead and have the gov't burden them
with classes & licensing req'ments etc etc, after all they
can't possibly harm anybody else at 5 knots. And you don't
want people to get the idea that it's a free country.

DSK

DSK wrote:
wrote:
What is the downside of this? I'm all for it.

Well, sure. You're already stuck having to take classs and
get a license.

.... Us PWC'ers have been the first segment of boating to be
subject to mandatory education requirements over the last five or six
years or so, we have been all for it from the beginning,

Not all PWCers are "all for it"

Well, the pwc'ing COMMUNITY at large is all for it and has been ever
since I"ve been a part of that community for that last nine years or
so. PWC rights advocacy groups and IMO all of us more responsible,
informed, thinking riders, have advocated and supported, mandatory
education and certification, for ALL boaters as long as I've been
involved, and it seems like an excellent idea to me.

and there are still a lot of
jetski drivers who operate their boats dangerously &
offensively.

Yes, and operators of other size and shape power boats too. That is
why it seems look a great idea to try to guarantee that anyone driving
one has at least been instructed in the basics.

Some do it even after taking classes & getting
licensed, seems like they consider it part of the fun.



The reason why PWC's were the first to be regulated & to
have a license required was due to the large number of
incidents wherein PWC drivers injured others. Injuring
yourself is not the state's business IMHO.


I don't follow your thinking at all. Power boaters with bigger boats
than pwc's can certainly do lots of damage to others and the properties
of others as well as to themselves, and often do. (And to their
families and passengers.)

.... it seems to me that it would suggest
that it's not really any additional burden for sailors because they're
probably getting educated and trained before they hit the water anyway.


Yeah, let's just go ahead and have the gov't burden them
with classes & licensing req'ments etc etc, after all they
can't possibly harm anybody else at 5 knots.

I don't really see what the big burden is. The class is 8 hours and
free, here in New York State anyway.

And you don't
want people to get the idea that it's a free country.



I don't know that the "it's a free country" platitude dissuades me from
thinking that this is a good idea, especially when you look at accident
and injury statistics in states that have done it already. I guess
you're not in favor of automobile licensing either? After all, I
suppose, it's anyone's free choice to get onto a crowded road they know
is populated by tons of dangerous uneucated maniacs.....every man for
himself, why would the government have any interest in stepping on my
freedom by insisting that I learn to drive and get tested before I get
behind the wheel? I guess I must be some kind of communist.

Sounds to me like some people just think they're too good to take the
course and just don't want to be bothered...tough.

richforman

Not all PWCers are "all for it"

wrote:
Well, the pwc'ing COMMUNITY at large is all for it

Of course. The jerk-ski drivers give you all a bad name...
as well as putting you just as much (perhaps more) at risk
of injury than the rest of us who are unlucky enough to be
on the water near them.



... PWC rights advocacy groups and IMO all of us more responsible,
informed, thinking riders, have advocated and supported, mandatory
education and certification, for ALL boaters as long as I've been
involved, and it seems like an excellent idea to me.


Why? Because you are saddled with a peer group that includes
reckless noisy fools?

I have been sailing for 40 years, have never injured myself
or anybody else with any boat, in fact I have rescued people
numerous times & received official commendations twice for
rescues.

Do I need a "license" to sail a boat, in your opinion?

Bear in mind a sailboat that goes 5 knots presents none of
the same risks... in fact one of the biggest risks is
getting hit my some motor boater. Will taking a course &
getting a license reduce this risk?






.... there are still a lot of
jetski drivers who operate their boats dangerously &
offensively.


Yes, and operators of other size and shape power boats too. That is
why it seems look a great idea to try to guarantee that anyone driving
one has at least been instructed in the basics.


I disagree. A better strategy would be for the state to
ENFORCE already existing laws regarding liability & safe
action. For a skipper who damages his own property or
injures himself, tough luck. For one who injures somebody
else... perhaps you or perhaps me... there are already laws
by which he can be made to pay for damage & injury, as well
as suffer civil penalties. This should be pursued but very
rarely is... not only pursued but given enough publicity
that anyone in the boating community will be aware of it.



The reason why PWC's were the first to be regulated & to
have a license required was due to the large number of
incidents wherein PWC drivers injured others. Injuring
yourself is not the state's business IMHO.



I don't follow your thinking at all. Power boaters with bigger boats
than pwc's can certainly do lots of damage to others

Not with the frequency that PWC drivers seem to.




I don't really see what the big burden is. The class is 8 hours and
free, here in New York State anyway.


It is a burden on my time that I do not have now, and it is
a burden to the taxpayers... do you genuinely believe it is
free?

And if the state thinks it's a great idea to force people to
take an 8 hour class now, and not charge them, how long will
it be before some busybody decides that boat statistics
haven't improved enough, and increases the time required? Or
before the state decides that boaters can afford to help
relieve more of the tax burden on other citizens?



I don't know that the "it's a free country" platitude dissuades me from
thinking that this is a good idea,

I think it's a great idea for jetskis and vroom-vroom boats.
I don't want to be run down by some drunk bonehead going at
a speed that would be illegal on any interstate highway.



.... I guess
you're not in favor of automobile licensing either? After all, I
suppose, it's anyone's free choice to get onto a crowded road they know
is populated by tons of dangerous uneucated maniacs.....every man for
himself, why would the government have any interest in stepping on my
freedom by insisting that I learn to drive and get tested before I get
behind the wheel? I guess I must be some kind of communist.

Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't matter.

What you're suggesting is that *I* ought to be force to take
a class so that *you* can operate a vessel that is a hazard
to me.

This is more like insisting that bicyclists have to get
licenses because car drivers do... or pedestrians.





Sounds to me like some people just think they're too good to take the
course

Exactly.

I never needed it before and I don't need it now... and I
know thousands of other recreational sailors who don't either.

When was the last time anybody was injured by being run into
by an aggressive sailboat driver?

DSK