New Jersey operator licensing
 

wrote:
I am a cruiser and have every right to post here and join in these
conversations.

Agreed.


.... PWC's aren't toys by the way

Yes they are.

But then IMHO these are also a toy
http://sic.epfl.ch/publications/SCR02/scr13_page4.jpg

But they are MUCH more expensive and require vastly more
skill to handle... still just toys after all.




.... Anyway my
interest in boat cruising is what takes me to rec.boats.cruising,
thanks very much. Last summer I spent a week cruising with my wife all
around the Thousand Islands area in the St. Lawrenece Waterway, we
visited and took pictures of all the state parks, castles, and dozens
of the beautiful islands and other attractions there from the water.
I'll link you to the album of hundreds of pictures my wife took.

OK, I'd like to see them. We have plans to visit the same
area. That sounds like a great cruise.

At one point in my life, I was going camper-cruising in
small racing class sailboats. Fun! Not very comfy but it
certainly built up sailing skills. It also gave a me a
preference for shallow draft boats that has stuck with me.

Size is only important to those who need it.


.... I belong here, I am a
full-fledged cruising boater just like anybody, and I just will not lie
down and take any bullying, insulting or discriminatory comments, and I
won't step to the back of the bus, sorry fellas.


It looks to me like you have been bullying others much more
than you've been bullied. I can see why you'd have a chip on
your shoulder about being a PWC'er but obnoxious behavior &
belittling others is not the way to give others a good
impression.

Fair Skies
Doug King

New Jersey operator licensing
 

On 7 Apr 2006 12:56:06 -0700, wrote:

At any rate, past 16, if an aspiring boater had the initiative and good
attitude to just take the basic training course

Some of the very worst PeeWC bozos that I've seen are in their late
teens or early 20s. No thanks, age 30 is about time to let them out
of the pool.

New Jersey operator licensing
 

In article . com,
wrote:

Peter Wiley wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:

Well your source for information is obviously way out of date because
SeaDoo hasn't made the GTX RFI in a few years.

Here's Seadoo's marketing blurb for their current flagship model on the
CURRENT web site:
"Roughing it is relative on the GTX and GTX SC. Packed with two
powerful engine options, luxury to spare and smooth maneuverability. A
top-notch boat that takes riding to a new place. Like your favorite
camping spot. Or a little island hopping."

Here's their description of another model:

"If the journey is the reward, you may never reach your destination.
Thanks to the uncompromising luxury of the 2006 GTX Limited. With a 215
HP engine,

215 f*****g HORSEPOWER? For *ONE* or *TWO* people on a goddam toy? My
6.5 tonne workboat only has 2 225 HP turbo diesel engines driving
Hamilton jets, and it'll do in excess of 40 knots unladen!

Thanks for that, you've confirmed my opinion. Those damn things should
be banned from all public waterways. Far too much HP for any rational
purpose.


Makes sense! Let's ban 'em all because PDW says it's too much
horsepower! What is the cut-off for an acceptable level of power, and
who will be the arbiter of what qualifies as a "rational purpose"?
Well, PDW, of course!

And again - very important - your analysis here fails on one very
important point: we're talking about boats, not toys! It's when
anybody thinks or treats pwc's as toys, I suspect, that most of the
conflicts and problems arise! (Operating them without knowing what
they're doing, etc.)

They *are* toys. They may be toys that float, but they're still toys.
OTOH my workboats are just that.

My sailboat is a toy. It serves no practical purpose except to provide
me with entertainment.

PDW

New Jersey operator licensing
 

In article .com,
wrote:

I am a cruiser and have every right to post here and join in these
conversations.

You're not a cruiser by the definition in general acceptance here. You
have every right to post - this is usenet, after all - and in return we
have every right to deal with your posts as individuals deem
appropriate.

So far you've got zero support from anyone.

PDW

New Jersey operator licensing
 

Peter Wiley wrote:

They *are* toys. They may be toys that float, but they're still toys.
OTOH my workboats are just that.

My sailboat is a toy. It serves no practical purpose except to provide
me with entertainment.


Well, I don't know. Okay, in that very loose sense, the same sense
that all recreational boats would be classified as toys, meaning they
can be used for recreation and to have fun, we can say that. But
really - well, ask a CoastGuard or Power Squadron member or marine law
enforcer if pwc's are toys, see what they think. The first point they
make in the user's manuals, safety instruction videos, and those
special safety courses you have to take to ride them here in New York
State - is in fact that they are not toys, but serious pieces of
machinery to be approached and treated with respect and seriousness.
Kind of ironic, some of us here are talking about irresponsible,
dangerous operators, and it seems to me that those problems start right
off the bat when these people think of them as toys and approach them
that way, failing to realize that, in a very important way, these
aren't toys at all.

richforman

PDW

New Jersey operator licensing
 

What's the definition? I don't get it. Frequent Long-distance tours
multi-day tours and destination rides on my little boat with everything
I need packed on board, planned and navigated on our waterways using
charts, cruising guides and gps, docking and staying at marinas
overnight, don't qualify as cruising? My Florida Keys, Bahamas,
Thousand Islands, Long-Island-to-Newport, trips get no respect or
appreciation at all from you, you think you're better than me somehow?
What kind of support do you think I require from you? Why do you
have to be so nasty, PDW? What have I ever done to you? Tell you
this, I've towed and helped out many fellow boaters in need of help on
the water (and been helped in kind when I needed it), they certainly
didn't have anything bad to say about me just because I was on a
personal watercraft, they respected and appreciated me as a fellow
boater and water-lover just like, as I've said, every fellow boater I
encounter on the water does every weekend. What is your problem
anyway?

richforman

New Jersey operator licensing
 

You are NOT the typical PWC operator. People who cruise on
a PWC are a small subset of PWC users. A very small subset.

True, and I think the same is true of every segment of the
power-boating and boating
world. Most people with bigger boats that I see and know around here,
have just one or two
favorite little destinations, a beach or fishing spot, that they motor
to and hang out all day at. I really
haven't known anyone on bigger boats who does the same kind of
adventurous/ambitious touring
and multi-day distance riding as my friends and I do on our pwc's.
Nothing wrong with any of that of course.

But what I'm wondering is, did you know that ANY pwc riders do this
kind of stuff before I started telling you about it? If not, then I've
already expanded your knowledge of what is possible and in fact what
happens more often than you obviously think. (There are riding groups
in every area with water, people organizing big group rides,
weekend-long family and recreational events, charity runs, clubs that
plan and promote long trips, I mean, believe me it's not like I"m the
only one doing it. I probably never would have thought of it myself
except that I got brought into it by all the established pwc'ers I met
and encountered when I bought my first one back eight years
ago.....pretty much all of them were doing things like this and that's
how I got into it.) Maybe the more you learn, the more you'll be
surprised.

but I think at this point the public has had 40 years to figure out
that Doctors, Lawyers and other sedate groups also enjoy rif=ding Harleys.

....and of course there are still lots of people out there who have
never figured it out and still believe in the ancient stereotypes.
Like I say, it's really YOU who can't erase the real-world knowledge
that when I am out cruising the Great South Bay, the Peconic River, the
Atlantic Ocean, the Long Island Sound, the Connecticut River, Block
Island Sound, Barnegat Bay, New York Harbor, of course the Hudson,
every weekend, I just do not encounter these prejudices, negative
attitudes, from fellow boaters and water recreationists I see and hang
out with on beaches, islands, restaurants, coves, docks, ramps,
marinas, boat shows,....that I do from some cranks on the (usually
perfectly friendly) rec.boats.cruising. Nobody seems to have anything
against a pwc as long as we are obeying the rules, operating safely and
courteously...people like it. They see They wave from other boats,
especially their children, who are always very happy to see the.
Sometimes their jaws kind of drop when we tell them where we've come
from, it just makes them respect us more, when they see us geared up
properly in our dry suits if necessary, or with our gps' mounted and
massive storage bins loaded up with every kind of line, anchor, vhf's,
change of clothes and shoes, picnic lunches, charts, whatever.
Especially Coast Guard and cops, always very friendly, many of them
that we've stopped and talked to have pwc's themselves and we'll talk
shop about that. When they see that we obviously know exactly what
we're doing, have our safety certificates, have all our flares and
documents and required safety equipment on board, they can tell we know
what we're doing and I don't think it matters to anyone one way or
another that we're on pwc's. If we screamed through a no-wake zone or
were drunk and rowdy on the water, they'd dislike us (to say the least)
whether we were on pwc's or bigger speed-boats; if we're not causing
any problems and boating safely, everybody likes everybody else just
fine, the fact that my boat happens to be a pwc is really a completely
neutral factor, I think, to any reasonably open-minded, friendly,
positive person without some kind of elitist stick up their ass.

richforman

New Jersey operator licensing
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On 7 Apr 2006 12:56:06 -0700, wrote:

At any rate, past 16, if an aspiring boater had the initiative and good
attitude to just take the basic training course

Some of the very worst PeeWC bozos that I've seen are in their late
teens or early 20s. No thanks, age 30 is about time to let them out
of the pool.

But I wonder, have they learned the basics? Are they in a state like
here in NYS where they have to get the training in order to get behind
the wheel? I really think, again, of my first season when I first
bought my first entry-level pwc. I really had no boating/water
experience and didn't know anything about the environment, in
retrospect it's stupid but no one even really told how much there was
to know, I did mistakenly think, at first, that my new boat was just a
"toy." I'm 'fessing up that I really didn't know about slowing down
when passing boats docked at a marina or areas where I people were
swimming. I was in my early '30's by the way, and just ignorant...at
first! 'Til my friends that I started riding with, who were also the
ones who got me into cruising and long trips, etc., told me all that
stuff (or I'm sure some cops and angry fellow boaters told me lots of
it too)...anyway, by season #2 and since then, I really haven't done
any of it.

Most people once they have it pointed out to them the implications of
what they're doing and how it affects others....I'd think they'd
improve their behavior, it just seems natural.
So I don't think it's a question of age (like I said, I was well over
30, and still did the same stupid things, until I learned better)...but
rather training and knowledge and experience.

For the zillionth time, that's why I strongly support training,
education and certification requirements for ALL power boaters.

richforman

New Jersey operator licensing
 

.... Anyway my
interest in boat cruising is what takes me to rec.boats.cruising,
thanks very much. Last summer I spent a week cruising with my wife all
around the Thousand Islands area in the St. Lawrenece Waterway, we
visited and took pictures of all the state parks, castles, and dozens
of the beautiful islands and other attractions there from the water.
I'll link you to the album of hundreds of pictures my wife took.

OK, I'd like to see them. We have plans to visit the same
area. That sounds like a great cruise.

It was one of the best times my wife and I ever had. Thanks, Doug.
Here's a link to my wife's many pictures from those rides:

http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=...2&x=1&y=2uaiye

....you have to join up with Kodak Easy share to view the photo album,
but it doesn't cost anything.

And thanks for the friendly, accepting, inclusive tone of your post,
for your interest in my cruising experience, and for belying the
charming PDW's statement that I have "zero support," whatever that
means exactly.

richforman

New Jersey operator licensing
 

Mys Terry wrote:
On 10 Apr 2006 10:46:21 -0700, wrote:

You are NOT the typical PWC operator. People who cruise on
a PWC are a small subset of PWC users. A very small subset.

True, and I think the same is true of every segment of the
power-boating and boating
world. Most people with bigger boats that I see and know around here,
have just one or two
favorite little destinations, a beach or fishing spot, that they motor
to and hang out all day at. I really
haven't known anyone on bigger boats who does the same kind of
adventurous/ambitious touring
and multi-day distance riding as my friends and I do on our pwc's.
Nothing wrong with any of that of course.


Uh, Rich... Did you happen to notice the name of this particular
newsgroup? Pretty much everybody here is interested in cruising. You
are essentially the only cruiser here with a PWC, making you a very
tiny minority no matter how you try and spin it.

So? I'm not trying to spin anything.



But what I'm wondering is, did you know that ANY pwc riders do this
kind of stuff before I started telling you about it?

Yes, I did. It's atypical usuage for a PWC to put it mildly.


Well, I know and have seen, ridden with and and talked to hundreds of
others who do it, but still I'll agree, already did.

If not, then I've
already expanded your knowledge of what is possible and in fact what
happens more often than you obviously think. (There are riding groups
in every area with water, people organizing big group rides,
weekend-long family and recreational events, charity runs, clubs that
plan and promote long trips, I mean, believe me it's not like I"m the
only one doing it. I probably never would have thought of it myself
except that I got brought into it by all the established pwc'ers I met
and encountered when I bought my first one back eight years
ago.....pretty much all of them were doing things like this and that's
how I got into it.) Maybe the more you learn, the more you'll be
surprised.


I'm not at all surprised. Your group represents a tiny fraction of PWC
owners. YOu really need to get out more.


Doesn't sound to you like I get out a lot? I could hardly get out on
the water more. When I"m not on my pwc, I'm usually kayaking, do lots
of that too. (More speed-freek adrenaline-fueled fume-belching
hooliganism!)

but I think at this point the public has had 40 years to figure out
that Doctors, Lawyers and other sedate groups also enjoy rif=ding Harleys.

...and of course there are still lots of people out there who have
never figured it out and still believe in the ancient stereotypes.
Like I say, it's really YOU who can't erase the real-world knowledge
that when I am out cruising the Great South Bay, the Peconic River, the
Atlantic Ocean, the Long Island Sound, the Connecticut River, Block
Island Sound, Barnegat Bay, New York Harbor, of course the Hudson,
every weekend, I just do not encounter these prejudices, negative
attitudes, from fellow boaters and water recreationists I see and hang
out with on beaches, islands, restaurants, coves, docks, ramps,
marinas, boat shows,....that I do from some cranks on the (usually
perfectly friendly) rec.boats.cruising.

That's because you are behaving yourself in those places.


Barging in here and insisting that we all start thinking favorably
about PWC's when our real world experience is overwhelmingly negative,
is not what I would consider "behaving".


Think however you want, I was just trying to inform some people of
things they very obviously weren't at all aware of.

Nobody seems to have anything
against a pwc as long as we are obeying the rules, operating safely and
courteously...people like it.


They see They wave from other boats,
especially their children, who are always very happy to see the.
Sometimes their jaws kind of drop when we tell them where we've come
from, it just makes them respect us more, when they see us geared up
properly in our dry suits if necessary, or with our gps' mounted and
massive storage bins loaded up with every kind of line, anchor, vhf's,
change of clothes and shoes, picnic lunches, charts, whatever.
Especially Coast Guard and cops, always very friendly, many of them
that we've stopped and talked to have pwc's themselves and we'll talk
shop about that. When they see that we obviously know exactly what
we're doing, have our safety certificates, have all our flares and
documents and required safety equipment on board, they can tell we know
what we're doing and I don't think it matters to anyone one way or
another that we're on pwc's. If we screamed through a no-wake zone or
were drunk and rowdy on the water, they'd dislike us (to say the least)
whether we were on pwc's or bigger speed-boats; if we're not causing
any problems and boating safely, everybody likes everybody else just
fine, the fact that my boat happens to be a pwc is really a completely
neutral factor, I think, to any reasonably open-minded, friendly,
positive person without some kind of elitist stick up their ass.

richforman

You are your own worst enemy, Rich.

How do you figure? I don't have any problems.

I was trying to give you the
benefit of the doubt, but it seems all you are here for is to be
confrontational and to preach and brow-beat us about your "cause".


I think I came onto the thread to chime in with my opinions about
operator licensing. Somewhere in there I mentioned that I ride a pwc,
and attacks and insults followed from that, I just responded and
defended myself.

That's pretty annoying behavior. I guess being annoying IS an
unavoidable PWC'er trait

Well, whatever. 'Scuse me for living, I guess. I've expanded my
cruising plans for this weekend, what was first planned as two days is
now three. We're going to ride about noon on Thursday from Jones Beach
to South Jersey, eventually putting up our 'skis on a couple jetskis at
a dealership I called down there and staying overnight in beautiful
Long Beach Island; Friday is going to be for basically sky's the limit
exploring, hopefully we'll make it as far south as Delaware, which will
be farther south than I've ever ridden without first trailering
somewhere, anyway it'll be a combination of ocean riding and in the
intracoastal and back bays, we'll enjoy the sights of the Wildwood and
Ocean City boardwalks, A.C. skyline, maybe see another dolphin like we
did two weekends ago in Staten Island, anyway the weather forecast
looks incredible so far, very high 60's or 70's. ON Saturday we're
going to leave pretty much at dawn and make a bee-line home, I have to
be back in town early for a wedding gig I was hired to fill-in for on
keyboards on Saturday night. Pretty much three solid days of riding,
cruising and exploring, I'll have all the inlets and fuel stops
waypointed on my gps, I'm thinking I'll probably spend less than $200
on gas for the whole thing, not bad, I'm actually pretty strapped but
this won't be too much of an indulgence (wife and kids are actually
both elsewhere out of town for a couple days without me, so the
opportunity had to seized, days taken off from work immediately!)
Anyway I'm really psyched as you can imagine, maybe I"ll stop back in
and let you fellas know how it went.

richforman