BoatBanter.com - New Jersey operator licensing

BoatBanter.com (https://www.boatbanter.com/)

- Cruising (https://www.boatbanter.com/cruising/)

- - New Jersey operator licensing (https://www.boatbanter.com/cruising/68268-new-jersey-operator-licensing.html)

New Jersey operator licensing

Peter Wiley wrote:
The only vehicle accidents I've ever had in over 30 years were when
dead sober and not paying sufficient attention to what I was doing. And
I can count them on the thumbs of both hands.

When young I had a number of mishaps in cars, due to
excesssive confidence & lack of respect for the
consequences... like most young people....

So - I agree with you, Doug. The crime isn't driving with a BA over a
certain level, it's doing that and causing an accident. I can't figure,
given human stupidity, that laws will ever make a difference, tho, as
the people most dangerous are those sure they'll never get caught.

And that's the problem... the social engineers need to
figure out how to instill the belief that they will be
caught. That is the single best deterrent to misbehavior,
much more effective than severe & harsh punishment *if* you
get caught.

Here in Australia (NSW) they took licences off people and cancelled
their vehicle registrations for various offences. All that happened was
an increase in unlicensed & uninsured drivers/vehicles. Predictable.
They need to confiscate the vehicles, then people may pay attention. Or
at least if they didn't, they'd have to find a new vehicle to drive.

We do that here too, with unintended consequences. The
confiscated cars were given to the schools to sell off, a
nice idea in theory. However the cars cost more to store
than they fetch on the market, and the schools are also
embroiled in wrongful deprivement of property suits. A mess.

DSK

New Jersey operator licensing

Conneticut ,,, last time I checked Conneticut SUCKED! Taxes up the ass, a
governor a crook, the whole place a big pit.

The state doesn't give a rat's ass about boating safety,, all it wants is
more TAX MONEY.

Conneticut ,,

SUCKS!

==============
"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 15:36:50 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On 3 Apr 2006 14:22:02 -0500, Dave wrote:

But the number of boaters in miniscule in comparison. So instead of
licensing everybody, the State should keep a record of the small number
of
boaters whose boating privileges have been revoked. The CG and the water
cops could quickly verify that info by radio when they board a vessel for
violations.

Where does it say that government has the authority to revoke your
right to boating ?

By advocating a licensing program you would creat that authority. Be
careful what you ask for.

In Connecticut, they are VERY careful to call it a "safe boating
certificate", and stress that it is NOT a license.

New Jersey operator licensing

Dave wrote:
Why Doug, you're starting to sound positively right-wing.

I have always been rather conservative on most issues.

DSK

New Jersey operator licensing

I have always been rather conservative on most issues.

Dave wrote:
Hmm. With me, wisdom came only with experience. Actually worked for George
McGovern in the NH primary.

As opposed to Nixon? You were wise back then.

"Conservative" (in the real sense) means having the good of
the country as a whole in mind, rather than being a shrill &
unreasoning partisan of the ideology du jour.

DSK

New Jersey operator licensing

That's where you're wrong, on all those points. You are really
ignorant. My four-stroke
pwc is extremely quiet, as are all the new 4-strokes which is about I
don't know, 90% of
the market these days. EXTREMELY QUIET, among the quietest and
CLEANEST-RUNNING
boats being made, those are the FACTS. I know the difference and the
truth because I rode
the 2-strokes for a bunch of years and know all about the noise levels
those used to make. On
the 4-stroke my wife and I can talk to each other as we ride together
without raising our voices,
cruising at speed. The only sound you hear riding these boats is the
splash of the water against the hull.

There are NO EXHAUST FUMES coming from my 'ski, just admit that you
have no idea what you are talking about (as far as NEW, CURRENT
machines that have been the norm for the last five years).
4-stroke...do you get it? Doesn't burn oil? NO FUMES, NO BURNING OIL?
Admit that you're WRONG, DON'T know
what the F**CK you're talking about, and that your statements about MY
riding and MY pwc and MY Firends and MY life are FALSE, IGNORANT,
INACCURATE, INSULTING wihtout knowing ANYTHING about what happens when
I go out riding my boat.

I don't fly around quiet anchorages and neither do any of the other
people I ride with. Like any responsible
boater I slow down to idle in an anchorage or past a marina, or idle up
to the beach to sit on blankets and have lunch with my wife, just like
any other recreational boater would do. I never "run circles around
anybody" because I have much better things to do , like all-day
long-distance cruises that involve knowledge, smarts, research,
preparation just like ANY BOATER needs, except most bigger-boaters do
NOT go on the kind of long-distance adventuress that my pwc friends and
I do every weekend. Let me know when you can go 130 miles on about 40
bucks' worth of gas and take advantage of it by going on long-distance
explorations all the time.....then tell me how I'm not a real boater,
not as good somehow as you you ****in' asshole, sorry for MY attitude
but YOU started it with the insults and LIES about (by implication)
myself, my wife, my children and many of my friends!!!!!!

You are wrong, I should know what kind of attitudes I encounter on the
water, on the docks, on the beaches, that of respect and camaraderie
from all my fellow boaters with whom I share a love of the water, the
outdoors, the sunshine, and BOATING, regardless of what size or shape
boat somebody chooses to enjoy.
I interact with fellow boaters every weekend day out there, eight
months out of the year, how often do you get out and for how many
hours?, and ONLY get pleasantness and the basic bond that all boaters
share except around here on the newsgroup. People are impressed and
surprised when they hear how far we've come from when we go (with my
wife or friends) on long-distance overnight cruises and trips, and when
they see how much storage and fuel-efficiency my boat offers, what can
you say, of course they like it. When people see the mapping gps'
mounted to our handlebars that we use to plan and navigate
long-distance trips, or hear that my wife and I, say, have been on the
'ski all day and have ridden maybe 100 or 150 miles, and are none the
worse for the wear and tear, they realize that their preconceptions
about pwc's and what they're used for and who rides them, might be a
little inaccurate. Of course to that they have to have an open enough
mind to admit that they don't know everything and were wrong about some
things.

I know I'm blithering like an idiot, but damn it prodigal, you're wrong
and I wish you'd admit it on thiese points:
my boat isn't loud AT ALL, it's VERY QUIET compared to almost any other
powerboat you could find
it has no exhaust fumes
I don't run circles
I don't buzz boats or fly through anchorages
....and therefore this proves that YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU"RE TALKING
ABOUT.

I'm a perfectly worthy, respectable member of the boating world, I have
as much right to be on the water or in an anchorage or at a dock or
right here in the newsgroup as you or anybody, as long as I obey the
rules, operate safely, am courteous to my fellow boaters, etc., and I
AM, and so is EVERY OTHER PWC ENTHUSIAST I KNOW and I KNOW A LOT OF
'EM, we are EVERY BIT AS MUCH BOATERS as ANYONE ELSE.

Well, anyway I had a good start to my season, did you start yours yet?,
last Sunday my friend and I left from Hempstead Harbor, took the Long
Island Sound to the Harlem River, popped out on the Hudson, cruised
along the West side of Manhattan then under the Verezanno, around
Staten Island clockwise then finished a figure-eight by taking the East
River back to Hells gate and back to our ramp, about 125 miles without
fueling up (using about 18 gallons or regular 87 gas apiece), we saw a
dolphin swimming in the Arthur Kill to my extreme surprise, and watched
a huge crane the likes of which I hadn't seen before do routine
dredging on a channel elsewhere in the waterway....anybody do anything
like that on a bigger boat last weekend? ANyway, we interacted with
plenty of people on other boats, at the ramps and docks during the day,
and like I said (and you tried to lie away) didn't get any kind of
negative anti-pwc prejudiced attitude from ANYBODY, that only happens
RIGHT HERE from pompous blowhards like yourself.

Our next ride planned is Easter weekend, an overnight run from Jones
Beach to South Jersey, probably cruise at least to Atlantic City then
back to Long Beach Island where we'll tying up and staying overnight
and cruising back the next day. I have ridden pwc's to the Bahamas
(that's right, TO the Bahamas and back); up and down the entire
FLorida Keys from Ft. Lauderdale over a week; always going from Long
Island to Block Island or Wethersfield, Ct, or Newport, RI for
overnight trips; from Northport, LI to Albany and back in a day; I
want to know, does any of this sound like it conforms to your
prejudiced, stereotyped, outdated notions of pwc riding and what pwc
riders do with their boats? Does it sound like I'll be busy flying
through anchorages, spewing fumes or "doing circles," and if you can
see that none of that is the case, then will you admit that you were
wrong about me, and my boating lifestyle, apologize humbly to me and
maybe think about updating some of your old-fashioned notions....or
will you just dig in?

to sum up:
NOT LOUD
NO FUMES
NO CIRCLES
NO FLYING AROUND ANCHORAGES
GET ALONG FANTASTICALLY WITH ALL FELLOW BOATERS
YOU'RE WRONG ON ALL COUNTS
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU"RE TALKING ABOUT
....AND YOU"RE OBNOXIOUS TO HAVE SAID THOSE THINGS IN THE FIRST PLACE
WITHOUT KNOWING
ANYTHING ABOUT ME, BASED ON PREJUDICES RESTING SOLELY ON THE KIND OF
BOAT I OWN.

Sorry.

richforman

New Jersey operator licensing

GUYS you're wrong about me, you're claiming I said things which I never
did.

I have said several times in this thread that I support experienced
boaters (or anybody, I guess) being
able to "test out" of the class requirement...so these last two posts
about me or addressed to me
are WRONG, I never said that people can't learn the basics without
sitting in a classroom,
or that people can take the initiative to learn things. I NEVER SAID
"the govt. must rightfully to force
everybody to sit in a classroom." NEver said it, never implied it, and
I don't think that way. Got it, DSK?, your statements about me are
innaccurate, incorrect and show (to use the old usenet saw) a lack of
reading comprehension.

All I said was the if somebody's learned it already, through experience
or through their initiative (which in many cases would probably include
taking a basics class anyway!) I don't mind the law asking them to
demonstrate that by taking the cert test. Exactly like driving. The
government does NOT say you have to take any particular education, YOU
JUST HAVE TO PASS THE TEST to show that you know the basics, and I
think power-boating should work the SAME WAY.

Do you got it?

richforman

New Jersey operator licensing

Their web site is obviously pretty lame, I must admit I never looked at
it until just now (keep up with them through their magazine and by
communicating with them and other members, and I'm well aware of what
the organization's positions on these issues are). If you're at all
interested you should call them and ask them their positions on safety,
education, enforcement, and similar issues.

Here's some pages and articles with some information on uses of pwc,
who and what kind of folks are riding them, how they're used, what
studies have learned about their environmental impact, what the AWA
(American Watercraft Association) and PWIA (Personal Watercraft
Industry Association's) positions and goals are, etc. Check it out if
you're at all interested in becoming more informed about these, if
you'd rather just stick to your preconceived, stereotyped, outdated
notions of pwc's and their riders, don't bother.

http://www.shawnalladio.com/pwc/pwcD...pwc_detail=205
http://www.ozpwc.com/ozpwc/thefacts.htm
(By the way, this article is already way out of date, it is from
2000, similar studies conducted now
would reveal that the pwc's are much cleaner-running, quieter, and
have less environmental impact
than they did at the time of the studies cited - these were before
the advent of the 4-strokes which
have taken over pretty much the whole market in the last five
years)
http://www.awahq.org/p/newsDetail.ph...D=80&flagger=2
http://www.pwctoday.com/archive/index.php/t-39869.html
http://www.ohiodnr.com/watercraft/plan/ucw.htm
http://www.pwia.org/issues/safety.html
http://www.pwia.org/issues/pwcloanprogram.html
http://www.laweekly.com/features/210/reborn-to-rescue/
(skip down to "There are many brave men and women...")
http://forums.surfline.com/archive/i...p/t-20198.html
http://www.boatbiscayne.com/about_pwia.html
http://www.pwia.org/news2003/072303.html
http://pwia.org/faqs/pw-qa.html
http://pwia.org/news2006/031606.html

"Perhaps no one has more of a vested interest in promoting responsible
use than PWIA and its manufacturer members. The PWC industry is
strongly interested in the safety of PWC users and of other people
using the waterways of this country. It is the inappropriate use of PWC
by uninformed or inconsiderate operators-not the vessels
themselves-which can result in conflicts on the water.

PWIA also believes boating education makes sense for all boaters, not
just PWC operators.
Because safety is of paramount importance, the PWC manufacturing
industry has taken extraordinary measures to raise awareness about
proper operation, behavior, courtesy and safety."

(from the Ohio Department of Natural Resources' web site:)
"The AWA Personal Watercraft Code of Ethics should be promoted in Ohio
through boating education and partnerships with PWC dealers."

Luckily the efforts of environmental extremist organizations (namely
BlueWater Network) to ban pwc's from waterways as a stepping-stone to
banning all motorized recreation, has been thwarted as results of
environmental impact analyses have been slowly coming in over the last
five years:

The following chart details the current status of the rulemaking
process in the affected parks, national seashores, etc.

NATIONAL PARK SERVICE UNIT STATUS URL
Amistad National Recreation Area (TX)
OPEN TO PWC as of May 27, 2004
www.nps.gov/amis

Assateague Island National Seashore (MD/VA)
OPEN TO PWC as of June 30, 2003
www.nps.gov/asis

Bighorn Canyon National Recreation Area (MT/WY)
OPEN TO PWC as of June 1, 2005
www.nps.gov/bica

Big Thicket National Preserve (TX)
EA published July 24, 2002; rule in progress
www.nps.gov/bith

Cape Lookout National Seashore (NC)
EA published January 24, 2005
www.nps.gov/calo

Chickasaw National Recreation Area (OK)
OPEN TO PWC as of September 2, 2004
www.nps.gov/chic

Curecanti National Recreation Area (CO)
EA published June 13, 2003; rule in progress
www.nps.gov/cure

Fire Island National Seashore (NY)
OPEN TO PWC as of July 6, 2005
www.nps.gov/fiis

Gateway National Recreation Area (NJ/NY)
EA published May 13, 2003; rule in progress
www.nps.gov/gate

Glen Canyon National Recreation Area (AZ/UT)
OPEN TO PWC as of May 1, 2003
www.nps.gov/glca

Gulf Islands National Seashore (FL/MS)
EA published April 19, 2004; rule in progress
www.nps.gov/guis

Lake Mead National Recreation Area (AZ/NV)
OPEN TO PWC as of April 9, 2003
www.nps.gov/lame

Lake Meredith National Recreation Area (TX)
OPEN TO PWC as of May 27, 2004
www.nps.gov/lamr

Lake Roosevelt National Recreation Area (WA)
OPEN TO PWC as of June 25, 2004
www.nps.gov/laro

Padre Island National Seashore (TX)
EA in progress
www.nps.gov/pais

Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore (MI)
OPEN TO PWC as of October 27, 2005
www.nps.gov/piro

richforman