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Jet Ski overheating problem
Look, you're posting this to a cruising n/g. Jet skis are noisy and offensive buzzing insects and the people who drive around on them are the seaborne equivalent of morons who ride trail bikes on public reserves. Go away and play with your toy and don't expect any sympathy from sailors. PDW In article .com, John wrote: We rode our our jetskis away from marked channels in shallow water to avoid the boat traffic. If you're going to quote, please quote something in the same context. That web page you quoted includes the following line regarding noise: "implied covenant of quiet enjoyment in leases is imposed by statute" A lake, bay, river, etc is a public place without leases. I'll rephrase what I said before. "If you want a lake that you can dictate who boats and who doesn't, buy" OR LEASE "the lake." I'm curious how you found a way to turn a wake jumping issue into a Yacht almost being t-boned. How could a jetski behind a yacht, travelling perpendicular to it, almost T-bone the yacht? Just like there is a selct bunch of morons on jetskis, the same can be said of boats, as well as every other recreational activity on the planet. In all cases, the ones who makes themselves a nuisance are the ones that get noticed. The ones that behave go un-noticed. Therefore all that gets noticed is the assholes. If I'm out onthe water all weekend, I might see hundreds of jetskis, but it's always the same dozen or so assholes giving the entire sport a bad name. How many senior citiziens from Michigan drowned when their boat capsized? I wonder if they think kidding about boating accidents is a joke. By the way, "joke" is your description of what you previously said, not mine. If they complained about someone joking about a boating accident, I wonder if they "have no business on usenet." Again, your words, not mine. |
Jet Ski overheating problem
Look, you're posting this to a cruising n/g. Jet skis are noisy and
offensive buzzing insects and the people who drive around on them are the seaborne equivalent of morons who ride trail bikes on public reserves. Go away and play with your toy and don't expect any sympathy from sailors. You obviously haven't been actually reading the thread, or refuse to be shaken from your outdated smug superior false stereotyping notions of boaters on pwc's. The point has been made (by boaters and non-pwcers): "jet skis" are actually NOT noisy anymore! Probably the quietest and cleanest-running power boats being sold. And neither I, nor any of my pwc enthusiast friends, many of whom also own and operate larger boats as well, fit your uninformed description...at all. I am a cruiser too, P, have in fact done more serious long-distance/multi-day cruising on pwc's, longer, more ambitious and more of it, than most larger-boat owners I know (as I described to some extent earlier in the thread I think). Like you and other boaters and cruisers in bigger boats, I have to learn how to navigate, how to dock, how to launch and retrieve my boat, how to obey the rules of the road and respect the laws and all other fellow boaters, how to avoid going aground, how to prepare for and deal with emergencies and problem situations on the water, how to use all nautical tools, how to maintain, repair and safely operate my craft, take careful care of my passengers...and like you and all fellow boaters, get angry at the behavior of the too-large percentage of people who do idiotic dangerous irresponsible things on the water no matter what the size and shape of their hulls, not only because of the danger they pose but because of the bad face they put on the entire boating community. Yes, okay, I'll gladly accept the term "toy" to describe my pwc in the same sense that any power boat is in a way a toy (and in a way, not). But no one's looking for any sympathy, just trying to educate and inform some obviously ignorant, nasty and prejudiced fellow boaters on what we're talking about. When you specifically insult me and my friends in words like yours above, I'm not gonna let it slide or just go away. It doesn't matter how many anecdotal experiences you've had observing pwc'ers doing dumb things, you and I have both seen just as many idiots in bigger boats doing just as many comically or frighteningly bad stupid things, at the ramp, on the water, around sailboats and surfers, in the channel, at the marina, in the no-wake zone, near the shore. I do respect sailors enormously, I know you really have to know what you're doing to sail. Probably far fewer idiots in that category because it's a lot more difficult and takes more effort and dedication to get into in the first place. By the same token, pwc's probably have a slightly higher percentage of clueless newbies and kids on them than larger boats, again because they're easier to afford and to get behind the wheel of in the first place (much less so in NY and other states now that you have to take a basic boating safety course in order to legally operate one at all - all but extinguishing the rental market, which is where most of the problems come from). But most people exhibiting the kind of behavior you're thinking about on pwc's are either newbies or kids who haven't learned and figured out the rules and the impact of their behavior YET, but they will....if not, they're just idiots, and again there's no shortage of them, no matter what the level of age, experience, income, or what size and shape boat a person has. richforman |
Jet Ski overheating problem
wrote in message
oups.com... Look, you're posting this to a cruising n/g. Jet skis are noisy and offensive buzzing insects and the people who drive around on them are the seaborne equivalent of morons who ride trail bikes on public reserves. Go away and play with your toy and don't expect any sympathy from sailors. You obviously haven't been actually reading the thread, or refuse to be shaken from your outdated smug superior false stereotyping notions of boaters on pwc's. The point has been made (by boaters and non-pwcers): "jet skis" are actually NOT noisy anymore! Probably the quietest and cleanest-running power boats being sold. And neither I, nor any of my The vast majority are quite noisy. pwc enthusiast friends, many of whom also own and operate larger boats as well, fit your uninformed description...at all. I am a cruiser too, Well, that's nice! P, have in fact done more serious long-distance/multi-day cruising on pwc's, longer, more ambitious and more of it, than most larger-boat owners I know (as I described to some extent earlier in the thread I think). Like you and other boaters and cruisers in bigger boats, I have to learn how to navigate, how to dock, how to launch and retrieve my boat, how to obey the rules of the road and respect the laws and all other fellow boaters, how to avoid going aground, how to prepare for and deal with emergencies and problem situations on the water, how to use all nautical tools, how to maintain, repair and safely operate my craft, take careful care of my passengers...and like you and all fellow boaters, get angry at the behavior of the too-large percentage of people who do idiotic dangerous irresponsible things on the water no matter what the size and shape of their hulls, not only because of the danger they pose but because of the bad face they put on the entire boating community. "too-large percentage of people who do idiotic ... things" are what we're talking about. Yes, okay, I'll gladly accept the term "toy" to describe my pwc in the same sense that any power boat is in a way a toy (and in a way, not). But no one's looking for any sympathy, just trying to educate and inform some obviously ignorant, nasty and prejudiced fellow boaters on what we're talking about. When you specifically insult me and my friends in words like yours above, I'm not gonna let it slide or just go away. That's what makes America great. It doesn't matter how many anecdotal experiences you've had observing pwc'ers doing dumb things, you and I have both seen just as many idiots in bigger boats doing just as many comically or frighteningly bad stupid things, at the ramp, on the water, around sailboats and surfers, in the channel, at the marina, in the no-wake zone, near the shore. Well, I haven't see just as many idiots on sailboats annoy the entire harbor, nearly run over swimmer, disturb the natural habitat, pollute the water, etc., as jetskiers. I guess I don't get out enough. I do know many places where they are specifically banned. I do respect sailors enormously, I know you really have to know what you're doing to sail. Probably far fewer idiots in that category because it's a lot more difficult and takes more effort and dedication to get into in the first place. By the same token, pwc's probably have a slightly higher percentage of clueless newbies and kids on them than larger boats, again because they're easier to afford and to get behind Didn't you just contradict yourself here? the wheel of in the first place (much less so in NY and other states now that you have to take a basic boating safety course in order to legally operate one at all - all but extinguishing the rental market, which is where most of the problems come from). But most people exhibiting the kind of behavior you're thinking about on pwc's are either newbies or kids who haven't learned and figured out the rules and the impact of their behavior YET, but they will....if not, they're just idiots, and again there's no shortage of them, no matter what the level of age, experience, income, or what size and shape boat a person has. richforman |
Jet Ski overheating problem
"jet skis" are actually NOT noisy anymore! Probably the quietest and
cleanest-running power boats being sold. And neither I, nor any of my The vast majority are quite noisy. Nope, certainly not the vast majority of the ones being manufactured and sold now. They are dead quiet. My four-stroke, the loudest sound is the waves against the hull,and my wife and I can have a normal conversation without raising our voices while running at speed...and all the pwc manufacturers are marketing their new four-stroke models almost exclusively I am a cruiser too, Well, that's nice! My point was that I have every right, not only that, but that it's perfectly appropriate for me to be reading and posting here; your previous post had tried to kick us pwc'ers out on the basis of the newsgroup being for "cruisers." Like you and other boaters and cruisers in bigger boats, I boaters, get angry at the behavior of the too-large percentage of people who do idiotic dangerous irresponsible things on the water "too-large percentage of people who do idiotic ... things" are what we're talking about. Yes but the crucial point I was making and you seem to have missed right there, is that there is that the problem is not, and not nearly, exclusive to pwc's, but exists across all segments of the recreational boating world. So your prejudiced, mean-spirited, ill-informed, stereotyping comments about pwc'ers ("the people who drive around on them are the seaborne equivalent of morons") are unfair and inaccurate (although, nice word there,"seaborne," impressive!). (And once again, I am so glad to note that I never get this feeling from actual fellow boaters on the water, mainly just from usenet assholes, but I'm still not going to let it stand.) It doesn't matter how many anecdotal experiences you've had observing pwc'ers doing dumb things, you and I have both seen just as many idiots in bigger boats doing just as many comically or frighteningly bad stupid things, at the ramp, on the water, around sailboats and surfers, in the channel, at the marina, in the no-wake zone, near the shore. Well, I haven't see just as many idiots on sailboats annoy the entire harbor, nearly run over swimmer, disturb the natural habitat, pollute the water, etc., as jetskiers. ....or as other power boaters besides "jetskiers," right? I already have said that I think sailboaters are probably on average, more skilled and better educated than power boaters simply because it takes more effort, skill and experience to operate one in the first place. But a special distinction just for pwc'ers is where you go wrong. We are just power boaters, really the same as any other except that our boats are smaller (and, maybe, more fun!). Anyway, again, as with the "noise" issue, the fact is that modern-generation pwc'ers (let's say for the last five years easily) are among the cleanest-running and least-polluting powerboats on the water. The technology has just skyrocketed, and the fuel efficiency is amazing (I go about 125 miles on an 18.5 gallon tank of regular and burn no oil; lots of bigger boats can't make any better "pollution" claims than those, but several other pwc models do even better than mine). Again your statements are just based on stereotypes and outdated information and if you refuse to update your knowledge of the situation, I'm gonna point out the falsehood of your statements about it every chance I get. I guess I don't get out enough. I do know many places where they are specifically banned. Some people don't seem to like 'em, it's true. BUT if you've been paying any attention to developments over the last few years, you'd know that the majority of pwc bans in national parks have been ROLLED BACK and reversed over the last five years as the results of mandated environmental impact studies have come in and shown that pwc's make no more, and in many cases, less, noise, pollution and impact on wildlife than that of other power boats. By the same token, pwc's probably have a slightly higher percentage of clueless newbies and kids on them than larger boats, again because they're easier to afford and to get behind Didn't you just contradict yourself here? Not at all....I graciously conceded a point....I don't ignore reality in my arguments. But my admitting to a potentially "slightly higher percentage" of inexperienced operators on pwc's as compared to other categories of boat, due to the factors I cited, doesn't validate or vindicate your apparent broad sweeping indictments/dismissals of all pwc users or the majority of them as being "morons" etc. richforman |
Jet Ski overheating problem
DSK wrote:
And what planet is this on? It's not stereotyping when 90% of the jet-skiiers that I observe are spending their time, apparently enjoying themselves, buzzing around other boats, swim beaches, and docks. They annoy other people, and apparently enjoy doing it. They sound like floating chainsaws... maybe you don't consider this "noisy" but most other people do. If you personally don't behave this way, then that's great. But here's a clue- you personally are NOT the majority of jet-skiiers. Doug King That's right... *new* PWC's might be nice quiet clean machines...but the zillion out there now are the noisy, stinky version owned in too many cases by yahoos. They buy them because they want to zip around and bother people. |
Jet Ski overheating problem
In article . com,
wrote: "jet skis" are actually NOT noisy anymore! Probably the quietest and cleanest-running power boats being sold. And neither I, nor any of my The vast majority are quite noisy. Nope, certainly not the vast majority of the ones being manufactured and sold now. They are dead quiet. My four-stroke, the loudest sound Get real man.... most jetskis on the water right now are obnoxiously loud. It's nice to know the new ones don't make so much noise and don't pollute. I guess the 4-stroke is a new fangled engine. I am a cruiser too, Well, that's nice! My point was that I have every right, not only that, but that it's perfectly appropriate for me to be reading and posting here; your previous post had tried to kick us pwc'ers out on the basis of the newsgroup being for "cruisers." I'm not trying to kick you out of anywhere on usenet. Why would I want to do that? You're welcome to post your stuff for all to see. You're certainly not, as a group, cruisers, but that's got nothing to do with posting here. Yes but the crucial point I was making and you seem to have missed right there, is that there is that the problem is not, and not nearly, all segments of the recreational boating world. So your prejudiced, mean-spirited, ill-informed, stereotyping comments about pwc'ers ("the I think they're highly accurate, since there's a much higher percentage of noising, polluting jetskiers than there are sailboat cruisers. Sounds to me like you're a bit sensitive when it comes to jetski comments. (although, nice word there,"seaborne," impressive!). (And once again, I am so glad to note that I never get this feeling from actual fellow boaters on the water, mainly just from usenet assholes, but I'm still not going to let it stand.) Ah, personal name calling. Come on, I'm sure you can think of something worse to call me than an asshole. Like I said, among sailboaters, PWC are generally known for being loud, obnoxious, and pollution machines. I am going to let that stand. Well, I haven't see just as many idiots on sailboats annoy the entire harbor, nearly run over swimmer, disturb the natural habitat, pollute the water, etc., as jetskiers. ...or as other power boaters besides "jetskiers," right? I already have said that I think sailboaters are probably on average, more skilled and better educated than power boaters simply because it takes more effort, skill and experience to operate one in the first place. But a special distinction just for pwc'ers is where you go wrong. We are just power boaters, really the same as any other except that our boats are smaller (and, maybe, more fun!). And, I agree with you. I've been in many anchorages with both kinds of craft.. power and sail. I prefer sailboats, but I've never had much of a noise issue with powerboats in those areas. Once in a while, I've gone over and asked them to turn off their engines after they've been idling for a long time, and they've always been nice about it... either did so or moved off. Anyway, again, as with the "noise" issue, the fact is that modern-generation pwc'ers (let's say for the last five years easily) are among the cleanest-running and least-polluting powerboats on the water. The technology has just skyrocketed, and the fuel efficiency is What's that got to do with the ones currently on the water?? Nothing. mine). Again your statements are just based on stereotypes and outdated information and if you refuse to update your knowledge of the situation, I'm gonna point out the falsehood of your statements about it every chance I get. Yeah sure... I guess that means anything over 1 week old is outdated. Seems typical of the PWC mentality. Some people don't seem to like 'em, it's true. BUT if you've been paying any attention to developments over the last few years, you'd know that the majority of pwc bans in national parks have been ROLLED BACK and reversed over the last five years as the results of mandated environmental impact studies have come in and shown that pwc's make no more, and in many cases, less, noise, pollution and impact on wildlife than that of other power boats. Why would I want to do that? I have no plans to own one. Start talking about the vast numbers that are not so new and pollute like hell. Didn't you just contradict yourself here? Not at all....I graciously conceded a point....I don't ignore reality in my arguments. But my admitting to a potentially "slightly higher percentage" of inexperienced operators on pwc's as compared to other categories of boat, due to the factors I cited, doesn't validate or vindicate your apparent broad sweeping indictments/dismissals of all pwc users or the majority of them as being "morons" etc. Ah, well, we're all very appreciative of your concessions. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jet Ski overheating problem
Fortunately, these days I live in a place where jetskis are banned. Long may it stay that way. Guess why they got banned? Noisy offensive buzzing insects driven by morons who broke every rule in the book. I'll agree that not 100% of the owners fit this description, but more than enough to **** off people to the point where these things are banned. That's reality. Deal with it. If you don't want to get classified along with the morons, perhaps you should reconsider your toys. PDW In article .com, wrote: Look, you're posting this to a cruising n/g. Jet skis are noisy and offensive buzzing insects and the people who drive around on them are the seaborne equivalent of morons who ride trail bikes on public reserves. Go away and play with your toy and don't expect any sympathy from sailors. You obviously haven't been actually reading the thread, or refuse to be shaken from your outdated smug superior false stereotyping notions of boaters on pwc's. The point has been made (by boaters and non-pwcers): "jet skis" are actually NOT noisy anymore! Probably the quietest and cleanest-running power boats being sold. And neither I, nor any of my pwc enthusiast friends, many of whom also own and operate larger boats as well, fit your uninformed description...at all. I am a cruiser too, P, have in fact done more serious long-distance/multi-day cruising on pwc's, longer, more ambitious and more of it, than most larger-boat owners I know (as I described to some extent earlier in the thread I think). Like you and other boaters and cruisers in bigger boats, I have to learn how to navigate, how to dock, how to launch and retrieve my boat, how to obey the rules of the road and respect the laws and all other fellow boaters, how to avoid going aground, how to prepare for and deal with emergencies and problem situations on the water, how to use all nautical tools, how to maintain, repair and safely operate my craft, take careful care of my passengers...and like you and all fellow boaters, get angry at the behavior of the too-large percentage of people who do idiotic dangerous irresponsible things on the water no matter what the size and shape of their hulls, not only because of the danger they pose but because of the bad face they put on the entire boating community. Yes, okay, I'll gladly accept the term "toy" to describe my pwc in the same sense that any power boat is in a way a toy (and in a way, not). But no one's looking for any sympathy, just trying to educate and inform some obviously ignorant, nasty and prejudiced fellow boaters on what we're talking about. When you specifically insult me and my friends in words like yours above, I'm not gonna let it slide or just go away. It doesn't matter how many anecdotal experiences you've had observing pwc'ers doing dumb things, you and I have both seen just as many idiots in bigger boats doing just as many comically or frighteningly bad stupid things, at the ramp, on the water, around sailboats and surfers, in the channel, at the marina, in the no-wake zone, near the shore. I do respect sailors enormously, I know you really have to know what you're doing to sail. Probably far fewer idiots in that category because it's a lot more difficult and takes more effort and dedication to get into in the first place. By the same token, pwc's probably have a slightly higher percentage of clueless newbies and kids on them than larger boats, again because they're easier to afford and to get behind the wheel of in the first place (much less so in NY and other states now that you have to take a basic boating safety course in order to legally operate one at all - all but extinguishing the rental market, which is where most of the problems come from). But most people exhibiting the kind of behavior you're thinking about on pwc's are either newbies or kids who haven't learned and figured out the rules and the impact of their behavior YET, but they will....if not, they're just idiots, and again there's no shortage of them, no matter what the level of age, experience, income, or what size and shape boat a person has. richforman |
Jet Ski overheating problem
"ladysailor" wrote in message ups.com... I have no sympathy for the jet ski enthustiast. Too many times I've been in a tight situation on a sail boat when these dick heads think Lady Sailor Nah, Your no lady. |
Jet Ski overheating problem
You're right, I take off my hat and gloves when I'm being harassed by
obnoxious morons and turn straight away into a ****ed off sailor. |
Jet Ski overheating problem
Fortunately, these days I live in a place where jetskis are banned.
Long may it stay that way. Guess why they got banned? Noisy offensive buzzing insects driven by morons who broke every rule in the book Okay, fine, but do me a favor, suppose this hypothetically: What if, in recognition of existing problems, and in an effort to get into your town's good graces, and most importantly, to be allowed onto your beautiful waterways (where we pay the same taxes to support launch ramps and other boating-related services as do other boaters), the pwc-owning community and industry (not that powerful a lobbying bloc, there are only four manufacturers), took certain steps, for instance.... Suppose they/we actively and successfully supported and promoted mandatory education and licensing requirements for pwc operators, and as a result, pwc-related accident and injury statistics dropped for multiple years in a row, as has happened in states where such laws have been enacted over the past five or six years, including New York, New Jersey and Connecticut; and also, young or new pwc owners and operators were, increasingly, demonstrably and enforceably, at least acquainted with the basics of boating safety, courtesy and regulations before they could legally operate a vehicle...(unlike with any other kind of boats, I might add parenthetically) Now, suppose further, bear with me here, that in addition, for more than five years, the entire industry had been on a continuous and highly effective campaign to make their 'skis dramatically quieter, cleaner-running, vastly more fuel-efficient and with provably far-reduced pollution and impact on wildlife and the environment (in the end comparing at the very least favorably in those areas with pretty much all other new power boats in the market). Let's say the new 'skis were found to be 75% quieter than those from five years ago, with (obviously) the ratio of these newer, clean./quiet models to older/louder/dirtier boats out on the water, inevitably increased year by year, obviously that trend stretching into the future... Now, do you think it would be reasonable to ask those in your community, those who'd voted for the pwc bans in the first place, especially those with an interest in boating in general, to be informed and aware of, and to acknowledge, these developments, and in fact to reevaluate their impressions of pwc's and their riders, with these changes in mind, after a number of years? Would you yourself be willing to do that? To update your level of knowledge in the topic even though it may not seem to affect you personally (you never plan to buy a pwc), and to take the banned community's responses and efforts to improve their reputation and the entire situation, into account....would you ever be willing to reconsider and revisit the issue in the name of simple fairness, even regularly, every five years; would you be able to have your notions on the matter changed over time by new information? OR, would you stubbornly cling to your original perceptions and notions about pwc's, refusing to be swayed by or bothered with ongoing changes such as these, in your attitudes and policies toward the machines and their riders.....always basing your final evaluation on the older, original data on the basis of which you first formed your impressions years ago? Would you in fact, in your mind, even possibly, tend to unfairly prejudge and stereotype pwc's and the majority of their riders based on conditions you observed anecdotally before any of these changes (in statistics; in technology; in law; in a large percentage of the riders themselves) had come about? Rhetorical questions obviously. Just take a look at yourself, man, and your attitude. Remember we are all in this together when you talk about bans. There are plenty of people who would love to see all power boats banned from our waterways entirely....they are the ones who at FIRST seemed to be succeeding with national park bans enacted back in the late '90s, until science and reality bore out the fact that pwc's were not intrinsically different from any other power boats, the results of the parks' own studies causing these bans to be rolled back in the last couple years, one after another....do you think the environmental extremists who initiated these laws would have stopped at pwc's? I just know I share a love of the water, and a great number of responsibilities and concerns, with everybody on this newsgroup, and every other boater and pwc enthusiast out on the water. Here's another question: out of pwc's versus boaters at large, which group more often has a beer in the hand of every person you seem to see on a vessel underway? How about this: which group has a greater percentage of always having life vests on? There is stupidity, irresposnbility, and dangerous, illegal behavior perpretrated by boaters of ALL STRIPES on all sizes and shapes of boats, but it is WRONG and UNFAIR to prejudicially make statements painting all those boaters with the same brush based on the behavior of the idiotic ones. It is just wrong. And "banning" any type of vehicle based on the illegal behavior of whatever percentage of its users, is even more wrong....you just might not know it yet if hasn't affected you personaly with your "choice of toy." richforman |
Jet Ski overheating problem
In article . com,
wrote: Okay, fine, but do me a favor, suppose this hypothetically: Sure thing... What if, in recognition of existing problems, and in an effort to get into your town's good graces, and most importantly, to be allowed onto your ... took certain steps, for instance.... Step one... Suppose they/we actively and successfully supported and promoted mandatory education and licensing requirements for pwc operators, and as a ... operate a vehicle...(unlike with any other kind of boats, I might add parenthetically) Good start. Now, suppose further, bear with me here, that in addition, for more than five years, the entire industry had been on a continuous and highly effective campaign to make their 'skis dramatically quieter, ... by year, obviously that trend stretching into the future... Another good start. Now, do you think it would be reasonable to ask those in your community, those who'd voted for the pwc bans in the first place, especially those with an interest in boating in general, to be informed and aware of, and to acknowledge, these developments, and in fact to reevaluate their impressions of pwc's and their riders, with these changes in mind, after a number of years? No problem. Would you yourself be willing to do that? To update your level of Sure thing. OR, would you stubbornly cling to your original perceptions and notions ... Rhetorical questions obviously. Just take a look at yourself, man, and your attitude. I have no problem doing all of that... as soon as we can completely get rid of the assholes I was originally talking about... the noisy, polluting, obnoxious ones that predominate the sport. Remember we are all in this together when you talk about bans. There are plenty of people who would love to see all power boats banned from Actually, am in favor of bans in certain places. In others, I have no problem with engines. Where I live, all gas/diesels are banned, and it's great. Other places where I sail, everyone is welcome. I just know I share a love of the water, and a great number of responsibilities and concerns, with everybody on this newsgroup, and every other boater and pwc enthusiast out on the water. Here's I have no doubt about you. I do have doubts about many pwc entusiasts. They seem to be there for the machismo. One finds them on land also, mostly on the freeways, going 95. another question: out of pwc's versus boaters at large, which group more often has a beer in the hand of every person you seem to see on a vessel underway? How about this: which group has a greater percentage They just drink before they leave the ramp? Who knows? They have to wear a vest because it's the law. A large percentage of sailors wear them because it's smart. Some don't, but most do, at least where I sail. They're not required to by law. of always having life vests on? There is stupidity, irresposnbility, and dangerous, illegal behavior perpretrated by boaters of ALL STRIPES on all sizes and shapes of boats, but it is WRONG and UNFAIR to prejudicially make statements painting all those boaters with the same brush based on the behavior of the idiotic ones. It is just wrong. I agree. However, I don't want noisy, polluting machines buzzing around me, and there are a large percentage of pwc'ers who fit the bill on that. And "banning" any type of vehicle based on the illegal behavior of whatever percentage of its users, is even more wrong....you just might not know it yet if hasn't affected you personaly with your "choice of toy." They're not banned exclusively on that basis. They're banned for all the other reasons I mentioned. Being a jerk isn't illegal. How about this hypothetical... would you be willing to completely ban those who continue to drive the noisy, polluting machines that dominate the current situation? I think that would be a reasonable compromise. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jet Ski overheating problem
How about this hypothetical... would you be willing to completely ban
those who continue to drive the noisy, polluting machines that dominate the current situation? I think that would be a reasonable compromise. This is a little ambiguous....as far as the machines themselves, this is more of a regulation on the manufacturers than on the owners/riders. I support environmental regulations that require improved greenliness and fuel efficiency of new boats being manufactured and sold, but of course traditionally this doesn't mean that the older boats that were manufactured, sold and purchased legally before such requirements were enacted, suddenly have their access rights taken away. This way, the trend is towards ever cleaner, less-polluting, more-fuel-efficient and less-noisy boats out on the water. No, I don't think it would be fair to retroactively ban boats that had previously been bought - although, my main thing is always, don't single out pwc's; if you did the same thing to noisy, polluting, dirty boats of all shapes and sizes, then I at least couldn't cry discrimination against pwc's. 'Course, then that would mean the whole boating community would all be joined together in their outrage, instead of different segments of us bickering among ourselves here, and we'd probably have enough strength to prevent such a blatantly unfair thing from happening. (When the enviro-extremists start with a much easier target, pwc'ers alone, an easier target because so many people have long-ago-formed prejudiced stereotyped outdated impressions of us and our boats, we're a much tinier and less powerful group...although we have still been winning against them when the scientific evidence inevitably comes in.) Now, when you say, "ban those who continue to drive"....I and every other intelligent, responsible, law-abiding, clear-thinking pwc'er and boater, think that laws against irresponsible, dangerous behavior on the water should be strictly enforced, violators punished, and who knows, possibly after enough trespasses, their boating privileges revoked just like can happen on land. (Of course, unfairly, it's only we pwc'ers who now require any kind of license at all to operate our boats at all, and then only in some states...it's a good idea, but common sense tells me the same should be required for any boat of any shape or size.) I'm probably biased because I'm a boater, but I think society should allocate as a high priority the enforcement of marine law. So sure, bust and, if they do it enough times, "ban" every boater who's drunk or drinking on the water, every cigarette boat guy zooming dangerously among boat traffic at unsafe speeds, and every pwc'er that violates the rules about how close to other boaters or swimmers or the shore they can be operating. As it is, a lot of pwc'ers feel discriminated by marine law enforcers who seem predisposed to enforce against us disproportionately, harrassing us with frequent spot checks and seemingly arbirtary pullovers, while a lot of other obviously dangerous illegal boating stuff is happening all around us....but I'm sure that's just paranoia....not the result of people's personal prejudices, irrational dislike and (in some cases, maybe) jealousy of us with our machines and how much fun we're having. Anyway...sorry....is that what you meant? richforman |
Jet Ski overheating problem
I just know I share a love of the water, and a great number of
responsibilities and concerns, with everybody on this newsgroup, and every other boater and pwc enthusiast out on the water. Here's I have no doubt about you. I do have doubts about many pwc entusiasts. They seem to be there for the machismo Right, but what about boaters on power boats of other shapes and sizes? Are they so much better - do you have so far fewer doubts about them? Do you think any of them, non-pwc-power boaters, have a macho inclination, that they like speed, showing off, bringing attention to themselves, and drinking beer while boating? I'd say the percentage is roughly the same in my observation.....maybe worse in one camp on some scores, the other on others....(like maybe novice pwc'ers are more likely to zip too near other boats or through a no-wake zone, where I'd say even non-novice larger-boaters seem more likely to be drinking constantly while boating....of course maybe that's just an unfair stereotyping image on my part based on what seem to be a great frequency of incidents that I have observed anecdotally, and maybe I should go slow on thinking that those traits or behavior will apply to all power-boaters or to the majority of them). richforman |
Jet Ski overheating problem
In article . com,
wrote: How about this hypothetical... would you be willing to completely ban those who continue to drive the noisy, polluting machines that dominate the current situation? I think that would be a reasonable compromise. This is a little ambiguous....as far as the machines themselves, this is more of a regulation on the manufacturers than on the owners/riders. I So that's a no? In fact, if an older car is polluting excessively, one can report it (out here anyway). They get a fix-it notice in the mail. It's not enforceable, but it puts them on notice that if a cop sees it, he might get a real fix-it ticket. don't single out pwc's; if you did the same thing to noisy, polluting, dirty boats of all shapes and sizes, then I at least couldn't cry discrimination against pwc's. 'Course, then that would mean the whole I'm not specifically singling out pwcs, except that they're a huge cause of the problem. You don't get very many sailboats buzzing anchorages with noisy engines and endangering lives in the process. I've already said when someone is running their engine excessively, I usually say something. That's not easy to do when a pwc zips by. boating community would all be joined together in their outrage, instead of different segments of us bickering among ourselves here, and I don't think you'll find much disagreement in the sailing community about the annoynance of pwcs. have long-ago-formed prejudiced stereotyped outdated impressions of us and our boats, we're a much tinier and less powerful group...although we have still been winning against them when the scientific evidence inevitably comes in.) And, as I've said, it's not outdated. It's nice that the industry has finally fixed the problem (supposedly) for new vehicles. They haven't and can't do much for the old ones that still dominate the scene. Now, when you say, "ban those who continue to drive"....I and every ... sniped to save space -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jet Ski overheating problem
In article . com,
wrote: I have no doubt about you. I do have doubts about many pwc entusiasts. They seem to be there for the machismo Right, but what about boaters on power boats of other shapes and sizes? Are they so much better - do you have so far fewer doubts about them? Do you think any of them, non-pwc-power boaters, have a macho inclination, that they like speed, showing off, bringing attention to themselves, and drinking beer while boating? I'd say the percentage is roughly the same in my observation.....maybe worse in one camp on some scores, the other on others....(like maybe novice pwc'ers are more likely to zip too near other boats or through a no-wake zone, where I'd say even non-novice larger-boaters seem more likely to be drinking constantly while boating....of course maybe that's just an unfair stereotyping image on my part based on what seem to be a great frequency of incidents that I have observed anecdotally, and maybe I should go slow on thinking that those traits or behavior will apply to all power-boaters or to the majority of them). I have some doubts, but the percentages are still better than with pwcs. So, yes. Drinking beer while boating better not be seen by local law enforcement. The legal limit is 0.08, and even if you have just one, it's for sure going to result in a USCG boarding if they even have a suspicion that you're inebriated. Calling into question the alcohol issue is a red herring. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about excessive speed and pollution in quiet anchorages. Sure, we get some powerboats (e.g., cigar boats) that zoom around, but not in an anchorage, because they know better. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jet Ski overheating problem
"ladysailor" wrote in message ups.com... You're right, I take off my hat and gloves when I'm being harassed by obnoxious morons and turn straight away into a ****ed off sailor. Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell at a power boat for impeding you. |
Jet Ski overheating problem
don't single out pwc's; if you did the same thing to noisy, polluting,
dirty boats of all shapes and sizes, then I at least couldn't cry discrimination against pwc's. I'm not specifically singling out pwcs, except that they're a huge cause of the problem. You don't get very many sailboats buzzing anchorages with noisy engines and endangering lives in the process We seem to be talking past each other on this point: you keep bringing up sailboats and I keep saying I"m talking about pwc's and other power boats. In fact I've already conceded that sail boaters probably cause fewer problems and in general behave better. I'm making the point that pwc's and their operators are not very different from any other kind of POWER BOATS. All right, sail boats have engines so maybe they're power boats, but you know what I mean. NOT SAIL BOATS! richforman |
Jet Ski overheating problem
Bill McKee wrote:
Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell at a power boat for impeding you. Probably like a lot of motorboaters, you have no clue what's involved in sailing, and think that all boats can be driven like a car. DSK |
Jet Ski overheating problem
Calling into question the alcohol issue is a red herring. That's not
what we're talking about. We're talking about excessive speed and pollution in quiet anchorages. Why do you get to dictate what we're talking about; why does the bad behavior you're willing to talk about only includes excessive speed and pollution? Both of which are perpetrated by every other shape and size of power boats besides pwc's. I am talking about singling out pwc's among boaters at large (not sailboats) as being uniquely predisposed to annoying, stupid, dangerous, illegal behavior; and also about extending the incidences of such behavior that one has observed, to make generalizations about entire segments of the boating community. Doing so (singling out pwc's, etc.) is just incorrect, inaccurate, unfair, insulting to me and my many responsible, safe, educated boating friends who sometimes ride pwc's, and is also apparently indicative of blinders that stop somebody frrom acknowledging the too-large percentages (but still probably, hopefully, not a MAJORITY) of all segments of the power-boating community who are guilty of these things...not just pwc'ers. You say you're not addressing me individually, but I'm not just speaking in defense of myself, also of ALL the dozens of regular pwc'ers who I know, talk to and ride with, over the last eight years or so....we all follow the rules, mind our own business, are out to have a safe good time, know our stuff out on the water, and do things with our crafts way beyond your stereotyped outdated impressions of what people do on pwc's. ALL of them. Don't you know any pwc'ers personally? If so, do they all conform to your impressions about how most of us supposedly behave? Or are you so hardened in your prejudice that yuo wouldn't even deign to associate with a pwc rider? It's ONLY the Newbies who do the stupid stuff, I did it when I started out, but you learn the ropes quickly enough. TO say that the fact that a person is on a pwc tells you all this about his personality (I don't know if it was you who said that, it was said earlier in this thread), that they're egoticstical, rude, show-offs, unconcerned with others, speed junkies, is just outrageous and stupid to boot. IN fact, I'd say the only thing you could deduce about somebody who has a pwc vs. someone with a bigger boat is that the pwc guy probably has a little less money. They're extremely affordable to own and operate, that's the only reason I have a pwc but not a bigger boat, it's not because of any particular facet of my personality, except that I LOVE BEING ON THE WATER, presumably just like YOU and every other person on this newsgroup. Sure, we get some powerboats (e.g., cigar boats) that zoom around, but not in an anchorage, because they know better. Now you're just showing your die-hard, inflexible, anti-pwc prejudice loud and clear. You and I kmow that you see not just some but tons of non-pwc power boats, especially cigarette boaters, who drive at excessive speeds, are not courteous to other boaters or seem oblivious to the rules of the road, and who DRINK WHILE BOATING CONSTANTLY....almost EVERYBODY out on the water, EXCEPT pwc'ers, it sometimes seems to me. (I'm not sure why that is, some of the pwc'ers I know do drink on land but abstain when they're riding....maybe there's something about the extra exposed situation on a pwc, interacting closely and directly with the waves etc., that makes an experienced operator who knows where he is and what's going on, feel more involved, less invulnerable, and take the situation more seriously, than a lot of guys on bigger boats, where the more enclosed or relaxed feeling makes them feel like they're partying at their house....I'm just guessing....all I know is that drinking seems much more prevalent on non-pwc boats.) By the way....are you saying above that you don't think there are many, many boaters in your area who are drinking while they're boating and go untouched by law enforcement? That it's all sober out there on the bowriders, yachts, cigarette boats, fishing boats? That I'd have to see to believe. richforman |
Jet Ski overheating problem
Bill McKee wrote:
"ladysailor" wrote in message ups.com... You're right, I take off my hat and gloves when I'm being harassed by obnoxious morons and turn straight away into a ****ed off sailor. Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell at a power boat for impeding you. If you don't like the collision regulations, sell that stinkpot and take up golf. |
Jet Ski overheating problem
In article .com,
wrote: Why do you get to dictate what we're talking about; why does the bad behavior you're willing to talk about only includes excessive speed and pollution? Both of which are perpetrated by every other shape and size of power boats besides pwc's. I don't know... the tide is heading out? I can't think of anything positive to say about PWCs. Sorry. The subject of the thread is jet skis. So, I'm commenting on what I think it appropriate on that subject. I am talking about singling out pwc's among boaters at large (not sailboats) as being uniquely predisposed to annoying, stupid, dangerous, illegal behavior; and also They are and I am. Sorry, but it's a fact. I know you don't want to acknowledge that there is a huge problem, but there is. That's why some places have banned them I suppose. about extending the incidences of such behavior that one has observed, to make generalizations about entire segments of the boating community. Doing so (singling out pwc's, etc.) is just Well, you've been doing the same thing... feel free to stop saying that from your observation most PWCers are ok folks who respect others. incorrect, inaccurate, unfair, insulting to me and my many responsible, safe, educated boating friends who sometimes ride pwc's, and is also apparently indicative of blinders that stop somebody frrom acknowledging the too-large percentages (but still probably, hopefully, not a MAJORITY) of all segments of the power-boating community who are guilty of these things...not just pwc'ers. Blinders? I have sails man. Get with it. Does it have to be a majority of ****heal PWCers? How about 49%? All I know is that a huge percentage of them drive polluting, noise machines, and are not interested in quiet enjoyment. You say you're not addressing me individually, but I'm not just speaking in defense of myself, also of ALL the dozens of regular pwc'ers who I know, talk to and ride with, over the last eight years or so....we all follow the rules, mind our own business, are out to have a safe good time, know our stuff out on the water, and do Umm.... I thought we're not supposed to talk about one's observations. I guess it's ok for you though. things with our crafts way beyond your stereotyped outdated impressions of what people do on pwc's. ALL of them. Don't you know any pwc'ers personally? If so, do they all conform to your impressions about how most of us supposedly behave? Or are you so hardened in your prejudice that yuo wouldn't even deign to associate with a pwc rider? Never said all. You did. It's ONLY the Newbies who do the stupid stuff, I did it when I started out, but you learn the ropes quickly enough. Only? Come on! It's only the newbie sailors who stupidly go out in bad weather. It's only the newbie sailors who die trying to cross an ocean or who's boat breaks because they didn't get around to doing the maintenance. TO say that the fact that a person is on a pwc tells you all this about his personality (I don't know if it was you who said Tells me a lot... until proven otherwise. It's always a pleasure to see a PWC not buzzing an anchorage and not going 20 kts too close to a sailboat. that, it was said earlier in this thread), that they're egoticstical, rude, show-offs, unconcerned with others, speed junkies, is just outrageous and stupid to boot. Well, you said it. I didn't. IN fact, I'd say the only thing you could deduce about somebody who has a pwc vs. someone with a bigger boat is that the pwc guy probably has a little less money. They're Bigger? What about a smaller sailboat boat? cigar boats) that zoom around, but not in an anchorage, because they know better. Now you're just showing your die-hard, inflexible, anti-pwc prejudice loud and clear. Why's that? Am I not allowed to be annoyed by bad behavior? Who the f*ck made you god? of the road, and who DRINK WHILE BOATING CONSTANTLY....almost EVERYBODY What is up with this drinkin and drivin thing? I just don't get that? What point are you trying to make? By the way....are you saying above that you don't think there are many, many boaters in your area who are drinking while they're boating and go untouched by law enforcement? That it's I'm saying that they are not very obvious if they are drinking and driving. I'd say that the vast majority don't drink and drive, just like the vast majority of car owners don't. That I'd have to see to believe. Well, you need to get out more... well, I take that back. You have a PWC. Oh no... here comes the missing sense of humor..... -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jet Ski overheating problem
In article .com,
wrote: don't single out pwc's; if you did the same thing to noisy, polluting, dirty boats of all shapes and sizes, then I at least couldn't cry discrimination against pwc's. I'm not specifically singling out pwcs, except that they're a huge cause of the problem. You don't get very many sailboats buzzing anchorages with noisy engines and endangering lives in the process We seem to be talking past each other on this point: you keep bringing up sailboats and I keep saying I"m talking about pwc's and other power boats. In fact I've already conceded that sail boaters probably cause fewer problems and in general behave better. I'm making the point that pwc's and their operators are not very different from any other kind of POWER BOATS. All right, sail boats have engines so maybe they're power boats, but you know what I mean. NOT SAIL BOATS! And, I'm making the point that pwcs and their operators are very different that the other power boats. Most powerboat operators don't buzz around the anchorages. Most actually try to avoid causing problems or annoying others. That hasn't been my experience with *most* PWCers. Sure, some people are good, some people are bad. My point is that a much larger perecentage of PWCers have little or no respect for others. I could cite example after example, but you consider that acedotal evidence, yet you also say that the PWCers you know are ok. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jet Ski overheating problem
In article et,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote: "ladysailor" wrote in message oups.com... You're right, I take off my hat and gloves when I'm being harassed by obnoxious morons and turn straight away into a ****ed off sailor. Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell at a power boat for impeding you. Suggestion: Get a copy of the Colregs and the Rules of the Road, specifically. Then, get back to us. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jet Ski overheating problem
"DSK" wrote in message .. . Bill McKee wrote: Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell at a power boat for impeding you. Probably like a lot of motorboaters, you have no clue what's involved in sailing, and think that all boats can be driven like a car. DSK I know what is involved with sailing. Married a good sailors daughter and used to windsurf. But too many "sailors" figure they have the right of way as they have a sailboat. I have had "sailors" do a 90 degree in front of me when lifting the sails and the iron sail is still running, and then yell at me. They would yell even louder if I collided with them and when they had to pay enormous sums of money to me. |
Jet Ski overheating problem
In article ,
DSK wrote: Bill McKee wrote: Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell at a power boat for impeding you. Probably like a lot of motorboaters, you have no clue what's involved in sailing, and think that all boats can be driven like a car. Come on Doug, be fair. Some sailboats have wheels. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jet Ski overheating problem
In article ,
Don White wrote: Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell at a power boat for impeding you. If you don't like the collision regulations, sell that stinkpot and take up golf. Don, please don't ruin golf for us.... -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jet Ski overheating problem
"Don White" wrote in message ... Bill McKee wrote: "ladysailor" wrote in message ups.com... You're right, I take off my hat and gloves when I'm being harassed by obnoxious morons and turn straight away into a ****ed off sailor. Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell at a power boat for impeding you. If you don't like the collision regulations, sell that stinkpot and take up golf. Another "sailor". It is also up to the sailboat to avoid a collision. I have heard "sailors" declare they have the right of way over a tanker entering the Golden Gate. There is no right of way, and the tanker has preference, and if they collide, the sailor's estate may have to pay to fix the scratches in the paint of the tankers hull. |
Jet Ski overheating problem
In article et,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote: "DSK" wrote in message . .. Bill McKee wrote: Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell at a power boat for impeding you. Probably like a lot of motorboaters, you have no clue what's involved in sailing, and think that all boats can be driven like a car. DSK I know what is involved with sailing. Married a good sailors daughter and used to windsurf. But too many "sailors" figure they have the right of way as they have a sailboat. I have had "sailors" do a 90 degree in front of me when lifting the sails and the iron sail is still running, and then yell at me. They would yell even louder if I collided with them and when they had to pay enormous sums of money to me. What's your point? If you know the Rules of the Road, there's never much doubt about who should give way. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jet Ski overheating problem
In article . net,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... Bill McKee wrote: "ladysailor" wrote in message ups.com... You're right, I take off my hat and gloves when I'm being harassed by obnoxious morons and turn straight away into a ****ed off sailor. Another "sailor". It is also up to the sailboat to avoid a collision. I have heard "sailors" declare they have the right of way over a tanker entering the Golden Gate. There is no right of way, and the tanker has preference, and if they collide, the sailor's estate may have to pay to fix the scratches in the paint of the tankers hull. Yep. Except you can leave off the quotes. It's up to everyone to avoid a collision. Still, you've not made any point here. There are always stupid people or people who don't know the rules of the road. The tanker in the bay have stand on status. Other vessels must give way. Don't worry, if you try to claim stand on status with a tanker, they'll let you know their preference. BTW, you usually wouldn't be t-boned by the tanker. Probably the bow wake would push you aside, then flip the boat around, then you'd smash into the side of the hull, shattering your boat like an egg. A few seconds later, the prop would finish the job. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jet Ski overheating problem
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... In article et, Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote: "ladysailor" wrote in message roups.com... You're right, I take off my hat and gloves when I'm being harassed by obnoxious morons and turn straight away into a ****ed off sailor. Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell at a power boat for impeding you. Suggestion: Get a copy of the Colregs and the Rules of the Road, specifically. Then, get back to us. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com I suggest you read the Colregs yourself, and get back to us as to when a sailboat can turn and go in front of any other non sailboat when ever they desire. Danger be danged. |
Jet Ski overheating problem
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... In article et, Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote: "DSK" wrote in message ... Bill McKee wrote: Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell at a power boat for impeding you. Probably like a lot of motorboaters, you have no clue what's involved in sailing, and think that all boats can be driven like a car. DSK I know what is involved with sailing. Married a good sailors daughter and used to windsurf. But too many "sailors" figure they have the right of way as they have a sailboat. I have had "sailors" do a 90 degree in front of me when lifting the sails and the iron sail is still running, and then yell at me. They would yell even louder if I collided with them and when they had to pay enormous sums of money to me. What's your point? If you know the Rules of the Road, there's never much doubt about who should give way. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com You better read the Colregs. A sailboat with the motor running, is a power boat. And all boats are to avoid collisions. The sailboat has to keep going in a passing situation. They can not turn when they desire. I guess you figure you get to make the big tanker going up / down the channel to turn to avoid you. |
Jet Ski overheating problem
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... In article . net, Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... Bill McKee wrote: "ladysailor" wrote in message ups.com... You're right, I take off my hat and gloves when I'm being harassed by obnoxious morons and turn straight away into a ****ed off sailor. Another "sailor". It is also up to the sailboat to avoid a collision. I have heard "sailors" declare they have the right of way over a tanker entering the Golden Gate. There is no right of way, and the tanker has preference, and if they collide, the sailor's estate may have to pay to fix the scratches in the paint of the tankers hull. Yep. Except you can leave off the quotes. It's up to everyone to avoid a collision. Still, you've not made any point here. There are always stupid people or people who don't know the rules of the road. The tanker in the bay have stand on status. Other vessels must give way. Don't worry, if you try to claim stand on status with a tanker, they'll let you know their preference. BTW, you usually wouldn't be t-boned by the tanker. Probably the bow wake would push you aside, then flip the boat around, then you'd smash into the side of the hull, shattering your boat like an egg. A few seconds later, the prop would finish the job. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com I see you do not know what happens when the tanker T bones you. And if your sailboat is of any size, you will get Teed. And what about your sailboat with sails up and motor running? |
Jet Ski overheating problem
Probably like a lot of motorboaters, you have no clue what's involved in
sailing, and think that all boats can be driven like a car. Bill McKee wrote: I know what is involved with sailing. Married a good sailors daughter and used to windsurf. But too many "sailors" figure they have the right of way as they have a sailboat. Only when they are actually sailing. ... I have had "sailors" do a 90 degree in front of me when lifting the sails and the iron sail is still running, and then yell at me. That happens occasionally... I think that kind of dumbass is in the minority, as sailboats are too willing & eager to punsih that kind of casual dumbassery. I've had people in boats on autopilot yell (or hail on the radio) at me that I *must* get out of their way, because they're on autopilot. If I reasoned like you, I'd be making statements about how people with autopilots are all jerks. BTW I deliberately stripped most of the cross-posting from this thread. DSK |
Jet Ski overheating problem
In article et,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote: I see you do not know what happens when the tanker T bones you. And if your sailboat is of any size, you will get Teed. And what about your sailboat with sails up and motor running? Well, having never actually experienced it, I can only go by what a local CG offical told us at a seminar. I'm sure he could be wrong. What about it? It's in the regs. Is the engine engaged or just running? Are you talking about the propulsion system or the genset? What about electric engines that are engaged and running but only regenerating the batteries? Do you know how you're supposed to tell other boats what you're doing when your engine is engaged and your sails are up after dark? How about during the day? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jet Ski overheating problem
In article et,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote: I suggest you read the Colregs yourself, and get back to us as to when a sailboat can turn and go in front of any other non sailboat when ever they desire. Danger be danged. Bill, sounds like you're unsure who is stand on vessel in the case you describe; otherwise, you would know that a sailboat can not turn in front of any other boat (sail or power) and have stand-on status. What do you mean by danger be danged? Does this mean you would run your boat up on the rocks or turn in front of another boat as a last resort? Why did you get in that spot to begin with? Please tell us. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jet Ski overheating problem
In article et,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote: You better read the Colregs. A sailboat with the motor running, is a power boat. And all boats are to avoid collisions. The sailboat has to keep going in a passing situation. They can not turn when they desire. I guess you figure you get to make the big tanker going up / down the channel to turn to avoid you. Yeah, so? What's your point? I know the regs and clearly you can quote them. What are you trying to tell us here? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jet Ski overheating problem
In article ,
DSK wrote: I've had people in boats on autopilot yell (or hail on the radio) at me that I *must* get out of their way, because they're on autopilot. If I reasoned like you, I'd be making statements about how people with autopilots are all jerks. Well, heck Doug, I've had an overtaking sailboat with its engine on tell me to get out of the way when I was sailing. I think he also had is autopilot on because he was standing on the bow (no PFD of course) and no one else was on the boat. We all had a good laugh when he finally changed course to go around us. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jet Ski overheating problem
Bill McKee wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message ... Bill McKee wrote: "ladysailor" wrote in message groups.com... You're right, I take off my hat and gloves when I'm being harassed by obnoxious morons and turn straight away into a ****ed off sailor. Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell at a power boat for impeding you. If you don't like the collision regulations, sell that stinkpot and take up golf. Another "sailor". It is also up to the sailboat to avoid a collision. I have heard "sailors" declare they have the right of way over a tanker entering the Golden Gate. There is no right of way, and the tanker has preference, and if they collide, the sailor's estate may have to pay to fix the scratches in the paint of the tankers hull. Not all sailors are familiar enough with the collision regulations either. In your case, sounds like you were overtaking him. You are the 'giveway boat'. That said, he has a responsibility to give you ample time to avoid a collision. |
Jet Ski overheating problem
"Bill McKee" wrote in message news:fkaaf.4109 I know what is involved with sailing. Married a good sailors daughter and used to windsurf. But too many "sailors" figure they have the right of way as they have a sailboat. I have had "sailors" do a 90 degree in front of me when lifting the sails and the iron sail is still running, and then yell at me. They would yell even louder if I collided with them and when they had to pay enormous sums of money to me. Bill, if "you" collided with them, "you" would be at fault. It is your responsibility, under Rule 8, the collision regulations, to avoid a collision. Jim |
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