Roger Long wrote:
Would have worked great too except that I let the RPM's drop too far
while distracted trying to explain to the bow line handler that you
only have to untie one end of the doubled line to slip it (previously
explained but it didn't stick) and the engine quit. (I'm coming to
hate the shutdown with throttle arrangement. An eighth of an inch of
travel is the difference between idle and quitting. The engine should
remain on line until you explicitly want it to stop.) By the time I
got to the starter button and back to the wheel, the wind had us and
the anchor on the roller had gone through the phantom window of the
imaginary powerboat next door.

It probably would have worked fine if I'd been alone. I'd have cast
off the boat and then given my full attention to the rest. This
business of teaching line handling while learning docking is tough.
Nothing like, "You mean this line?", as the kid puts his hand on the
roller jib sheet, to kind of freeze your mental processes at a
critical moment.

It seems to be impossible to predict how line handlers will react.
Worst of all are the well meaning passers-by that think that any line
they can reach must be pulled in and snubbed as tight as possible.
After a dozen years I've finally convinced my wife that she has the
authority to "wave off" anyone that won't listen to her instructions.

I've resorted to color coding all the dock lines, so I can tell people
"the blue line leads aft." And I've wrapped yellow tape on the dock
cleat that gets the first spring line. My final step was to feed a
lifeline cable inside some single braid line so that the loop stays
open and the last 5 feet are stiff enough so that my wife can snag the
cleat as we pass by. The line is set up to snub us just as we
approach the boat in front. If the wind is off the dock I can power
against it to bring the stern in. Today, of course, the helpful
dockhand thought this must be a mistake and tried to remove it just
before it snubbed up!

The other trick I liked on my old boat is a line running from bow to
stern with about 8 feet of slack. Someone that steps to the dock with
this line can control both the bow and the stern. If there is a cleat
in the middle of the slip it can serve as both bow and stern springs.

"Roger Long" wrote:

Would have worked great too except that I let the RPM's drop too far
while distracted trying to explain to the bow line handler that you
only have to untie one end of the doubled line to slip it (previously

This is YOUR fault. You need to explain IN ADVANCE exactly what you
are going to do and what the line handler is going to do, and have
their hand on the line that you want them to be doing something with -
make them repeat it back to you, or whatever it takes.

Bob has learned (and so have I) that it isn't enough for him to say
'you cast off the bow spring' to me. He has to articulate the whole
plan, and I have to repeat it back to him EACH TIME. He can't take it
for granted that I will be able to make the connection if he doesn't
articulate it.

Also if I understand what he is going to be doing with the boat,
sometimes I can help in ways that he has not anticipated.. Like if he
is counting on prop walk to move the stern to the port, and it isn't
doing it, I can pull the bow over to starboard.

Sometimes, even if I let go of one end of the doubled line (we don't
have both ends tied when we are casting off - we just have one end
attached and I hold the other end in my hand, pulling the boat in or
letting it out as necessary), it will bind or stick on something (like
a crack in the boards on the dock or it will get caught around a
piling) so it is necessary to flip it off. Since I don't flip well, I
have to have a boat hook close to hand, just in case.

explained but it didn't stick) and the engine quit. (I'm coming to
hate the shutdown with throttle arrangement. An eighth of an inch of
travel is the difference between idle and quitting. The engine should
remain on line until you explicitly want it to stop.) By the time I
got to the starter button and back to the wheel, the wind had us and
the anchor on the roller had gone through the phantom window of the
imaginary powerboat next door.

It probably would have worked fine if I'd been alone. I'd have cast
off the boat and then given my full attention to the rest. This
business of teaching line handling while learning docking is tough.
Nothing like, "You mean this line?", as the kid puts his hand on the
roller jib sheet, to kind of freeze your mental processes at a
critical moment.

See - you didn't explain it well enough.


grandma Rosalie

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...


It probably would have worked fine if I'd been alone. I'd have cast off
the boat and then given my full attention to the rest. This business of
teaching line handling while learning docking is tough. Nothing like, "You
mean this line?", as the kid puts his hand on the roller jib sheet, to
kind of freeze your mental processes at a critical moment.

BG As I said before and I repeat again .... a line handler can make a good
docking look bad and a bad docking look good.

Take the time to teach them not only the what, but the why and how.

otn

On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 18:25:42 -0700, Stephen Trapani
wrote:



To pull out of a slip backwards singlehanded with my 33' Hunter, I lock
the rudder over the way I want to back out, untie, hop out onto the dock
and holding the bow rail, walk the boat out of the slip. It will turn a
little in the correct direction usually but if it's not enough, as I
reach the end of the dock I give the bow a little boost sideways in the
correct direction as I hop on. This always gets me facing the right
direction. I make my way back to the helm, unlock the wheel and
straighten the rudder. Put it in forward and off we go.

That's pretty well what I do too. If I'm alone with my 33' fin keeler,
I have the engine in neutral, put the helm amidships (locked with
tiller tamer if necessary), and push it backwards HARD at the shrouds,
stepping onto the boat a few feet before the dock end.

Getting the boat moving can be difficult, but keeping it moving is
easy, even for my 110 lb, five-foot tall wife.

Again, if alone, I coast back until I am well clear of the adjacent
ancient monster ChrisCraft motorsailer (my length and twice my
displacement), and then helm over and engine in dead slow forward.

I also come into the dock in neutral and stop by dropping a midship
spring aft to a bollard, then stepping off with a stern line. This
usually stops the boat G and I have time to catch the bow and get a
line on.

R.

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...

This is YOUR fault. You need to explain IN ADVANCE exactly what you
are going to do and what the line handler is going to do, and have
their hand on the line that you want them to be doing something
with -
make them repeat it back to you, or whatever it takes.

I agree 100%. This is the part I trying to learn. I do try to brief
and explain in advance but my crew is on the cusp of impatient,
know-it-all, teenagerhood . Their eyes roll long before I get through
a full explanation and they get that, "can't we just go sailing?"
look. Their mother breaks in and says, "Don't lecture them, just tell
them what you want them to do."

I do put their hand and the cleat and tell them to unwrap it and let
it go. Then I look up and find them fumbling with the end looped fast
into the other cleat that can't be undone because of the tension.
There is a fine line somewhere between boredom and conveying enough
information to cover all possible mix ups that I haven't found yet.

Strange thing is that I used to be a sailing instructor and was
considered a very good one. I used to take people (girls) who had
never been in a boat before in their life out in Solings on Sunday
afternoons in Boston Harbor and talk them through setting the
spinnaker (yes, I was young and dumb then). Everything seems to work
better with non-family members. A lot of this is normal family
dynamics spilling over onto the boat.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...


This is YOUR fault. You need to explain IN ADVANCE exactly what you
are going to do and what the line handler is going to do, and have
their hand on the line that you want them to be doing something
with -
make them repeat it back to you, or whatever it takes.


I agree 100%. This is the part I trying to learn. I do try to brief
and explain in advance but my crew is on the cusp of impatient,
know-it-all, teenagerhood . Their eyes roll long before I get through
a full explanation and they get that, "can't we just go sailing?"
look. Their mother breaks in and says, "Don't lecture them, just tell
them what you want them to do."

I do put their hand and the cleat and tell them to unwrap it and let
it go. Then I look up and find them fumbling with the end looped fast
into the other cleat that can't be undone because of the tension.
There is a fine line somewhere between boredom and conveying enough
information to cover all possible mix ups that I haven't found yet.

Strange thing is that I used to be a sailing instructor and was
considered a very good one. I used to take people (girls) who had
never been in a boat before in their life out in Solings on Sunday
afternoons in Boston Harbor and talk them through setting the
spinnaker (yes, I was young and dumb then). Everything seems to work
better with non-family members. A lot of this is normal family
dynamics spilling over onto the boat.

That's interesting- I'm finding that teaching seamanship on Tropic Bird
to my normally (previously) hugely recalcitrant and uncommunicative 16
year old son has given us common ground and is forging a new bond
between us. He's listening and learning and we're both enjoying the
process.

I can still rememeber in my teenagehood, before I turned human, that Dad
and I found the same common ground. And on the same boat, too...
JM

"Roger Long" wrote:

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .

This is YOUR fault. You need to explain IN ADVANCE exactly what you
are going to do and what the line handler is going to do, and have
their hand on the line that you want them to be doing something
with -
make them repeat it back to you, or whatever it takes.

I agree 100%. This is the part I trying to learn. I do try to brief
and explain in advance but my crew is on the cusp of impatient,
know-it-all, teenagerhood . Their eyes roll long before I get through
a full explanation and they get that, "can't we just go sailing?"
look. Their mother breaks in and says, "Don't lecture them, just tell
them what you want them to do."

Explain to her too what you want to do. Have her sit and keep the
engine going. Make her steer (!!!). That will keep her too busy to
complain.


I do put their hand and the cleat and tell them to unwrap it and let
it go. Then I look up and find them fumbling with the end looped fast
into the other cleat that can't be undone because of the tension.

I would also suggest again that you don't have the line attached at
the end that you want him to undo. Stand there while he undoes it
and tell him that he will have to hold the boat in position, that he
has to do this task because his mom isn't strong enough to hold the
boat. This will give him importance.

There is a fine line somewhere between boredom and conveying enough
information to cover all possible mix ups that I haven't found yet.

One key is to ask questions instead of lecturing.

I want to get the boat out of the slip so that it doesn't hit a boat
that would be in this slip next to us - so it has to stay in this
area. How would you do that? (and then wait for him to formulate an
answer)

Strange thing is that I used to be a sailing instructor and was
considered a very good one. I used to take people (girls) who had
never been in a boat before in their life out in Solings on Sunday
afternoons in Boston Harbor and talk them through setting the
spinnaker (yes, I was young and dumb then). Everything seems to work
better with non-family members. A lot of this is normal family
dynamics spilling over onto the boat.

My husband tends to yell and complain a lot about my skills, but I
don't get upset about it most of the time. Another person might.
That's why all those sailing schools for women emphasize that there
will be no yelling.

grandma Rosalie

That's interesting- I'm finding that teaching seamanship on Tropic
Bird to my normally (previously) hugely recalcitrant and
uncommunicative 16 year old son has given us common ground and is
forging a new bond between us. He's listening and learning and
we're both enjoying the process.

I think a key point here is the singular. My sons are totally
different people when either of them is with me alone. Together, they
are performing for each other and every nuance of every event is
bouncing off the other. Seeing if they can exercise the power of
getting the other one to do what they were asked to do instinctively
more important than keeping a boat from hitting a dock.

The most vital thing to the future of this boat is getting out with
them one on one but it's a tough thing to work into all the other
family agendas.

--

Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote:


That's interesting- I'm finding that teaching seamanship on Tropic
Bird to my normally (previously) hugely recalcitrant and
uncommunicative 16 year old son has given us common ground and is
forging a new bond between us. He's listening and learning and
we're both enjoying the process.

I think a key point here is the singular. My sons are totally
different people when either of them is with me alone. Together, they

OH - well my dad used to say - one boy is one boy, two boys is half a
boy and three boys is no boy at all.

are performing for each other and every nuance of every event is
bouncing off the other. Seeing if they can exercise the power of
getting the other one to do what they were asked to do instinctively
more important than keeping a boat from hitting a dock.

If it is at all possible, let them do the whole thing themselves, and
you and their mother just sit by and let them do it (no coaching).
They've done it at least once at this point, so they should be able to
figure it out, and at least now, there's nothing there to hit in the
next slip.

The most vital thing to the future of this boat is getting out with
them one on one but it's a tough thing to work into all the other
family agendas.


Mom to 4
(dd#1 age 44, dd#2 age 42, dd#3 age 37, ds age 34)

grandmom to 10
(dgs age 25, dgd age 23, dgs would be 14 if still living,
dgs age 12, dgs age 11, dgs age 11, dgd age 9, dgs age 7,
dgd age 5, and dgd agev4)

I keep my rudder amidships and put the tranny in reverse just long enough to
get the boat moving, then neutral, coast, reverse, neutral, coast, and so on
until I'm out of the slip. It'll stay pretty straight as long as you get it
out of gear before it starts to walk.
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Having sailed on boats from 7 to over 300 feet, I tend to think of my
sailing experience as being fairly broad. I never thought about it until
today but, while it may be broad, there is a big hole in the middle.

Most of my command time is in boats under 30 feet, small and light enough
to just manhandle around while docking and undocking. Pull up to the dock,
jump off, grab the rail, boat stops. My experience in larger boats has all
been as crew and most of those boats have been 60 feet and over so
everything was done with well orchestrated line handling and power.

We just moved to our permanent dock which is longer and narrower than the
temporary one we were on. The boat will not back out now without the stern
walking far enough that we'll hit the boat on the other side of the slip
(mercifully, it hasn't shown up yet but I'm trying to keep the space
inviolate for practice). My crew is small enough in stature that our 32
footer might as well be one of the big sail training vessels I'm familiar
with as far as fending off or hauling the bow or stern in with a dock line
is concerned.

I lay awake the other night trying to think how we were going to get out
of the slip the next morning. I asked myself what they would do on the
schooner "Westward". Simple.

The next day, I explained the maneuver to the kids and guests. I then set
a stern spring planning to back against it to pull the stern in and the
bow out before casting off the spring. This would turn the boat enough in
the slip that she would have to straighten out in backing and about double
the distance I could back before the stern swung too far.

I called for the bow line to be let go and put the engine in reverse.
Nothing happened. The engine ran and there was some thrashing under the
counter but the boat didn't move. More power, nothing. It was dead calm
but the boat simply would not turn. I used about as much RPM as the prop
will absorb in bollard pull conditions and the boat still didn't turn. I
finally said the hell with it, cast off the spring, and we backed out
taking a huge imaginary chunk out of the rail of our mythical slip mate as
we went.

The bottom line is that 15 horsepower in reverse through a two blade prop
on a heavy 32 foot boat isn't going to do squat in fancy line maneuvers.
I'm going to have to make sure I always invite some big guests for every
sail or think of something else.

How do you do it?

--

Roger Long