"Roger Long" wrote:

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...

I think the key is to have the boat moving slightly before using the
spring. If you don't have it moving, you may not have enough engine
to move it while firmly attached.

Ah ha! There is the nugget of wisdom I was hoping to get out of this
post. She certainly would have turned if I had used the considerable
inertia of a boat with a 3/4" glass hull instead of trying to
accellerate it.

Also I seem to remember that in reverse the rudder has less ability to
turn the boat, and that I must not turn the wheel hard over in reverse
because if I do, the rudder is less effective.

Here's what I'll try:

2 -3 feet of slack in the spring to the aft cleat I can reach from the
helm. Rudder full over.
Back until spring is tight and cut power.
Let the boat swing. Add power if necessary.
Cast off spring at the right angle and start backing.
Cut power as boat comes straight in slip.
Use short reverse applications just sufficient to keep sternway on.

We too use a spring line on the dock to anchor the bow usually while
we drive into it to get the stern in to a face dock. But sometimes we
will use one to pivot the boat while coming out of the slip.

In our home slip of course, we don't cast the lines off and bring them
aboard, we hang them up on the pilings or leave them on the dock.

grandma Rosalie

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
"Roger Long" wrote:

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...

I think the key is to have the boat moving slightly before using the
spring. If you don't have it moving, you may not have enough engine
to move it while firmly attached.

Ah ha! There is the nugget of wisdom I was hoping to get out of this
post. She certainly would have turned if I had used the considerable
inertia of a boat with a 3/4" glass hull instead of trying to
accellerate it.

Also I seem to remember that in reverse the rudder has less ability to
turn the boat, and that I must not turn the wheel hard over in reverse
because if I do, the rudder is less effective.

Here's what I'll try:

2 -3 feet of slack in the spring to the aft cleat I can reach from the
helm. Rudder full over.
Back until spring is tight and cut power.
Let the boat swing. Add power if necessary.
Cast off spring at the right angle and start backing.
Cut power as boat comes straight in slip.
Use short reverse applications just sufficient to keep sternway on.

We too use a spring line on the dock to anchor the bow usually while
we drive into it to get the stern in to a face dock. But sometimes we
will use one to pivot the boat while coming out of the slip.

In our home slip of course, we don't cast the lines off and bring them
aboard, we hang them up on the pilings or leave them on the dock.

grandma Rosalie

I find that you have to be really careful to keep the rudder amidships when
in reverse, because the action on the rudder will cause the wheel or tiller
to slam violently to one side if it gets much passed centerline. You can use
this if you're prepared for it. If you're not prepared for it, fingers or
wrists broken may be the result.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...

I think the key is to have the boat moving slightly before using the
spring. If you don't have it moving, you may not have enough engine to
move it while firmly attached.

Ah ha! There is the nugget of wisdom I was hoping to get out of this
post. She certainly would have turned if I had used the considerable
inertia of a boat with a 3/4" glass hull instead of trying to accellerate
it.

Here's what I'll try:

2 -3 feet of slack in the spring to the aft cleat I can reach from the
helm. Rudder full over.
Back until spring is tight and cut power.
Let the boat swing. Add power if necessary.
Cast off spring at the right angle and start backing.
Cut power as boat comes straight in slip.
Use short reverse applications just sufficient to keep sternway on.


I've been accused of giving people worse things.. :-)

Would have worked great too except that I let the RPM's drop too far
while distracted trying to explain to the bow line handler that you
only have to untie one end of the doubled line to slip it (previously
explained but it didn't stick) and the engine quit. (I'm coming to
hate the shutdown with throttle arrangement. An eighth of an inch of
travel is the difference between idle and quitting. The engine should
remain on line until you explicitly want it to stop.) By the time I
got to the starter button and back to the wheel, the wind had us and
the anchor on the roller had gone through the phantom window of the
imaginary powerboat next door.

It probably would have worked fine if I'd been alone. I'd have cast
off the boat and then given my full attention to the rest. This
business of teaching line handling while learning docking is tough.
Nothing like, "You mean this line?", as the kid puts his hand on the
roller jib sheet, to kind of freeze your mental processes at a
critical moment.

--

Roger Long


Here's what I'll try:

2 -3 feet of slack in the spring to the aft cleat I can reach from
the helm. Rudder full over.
Back until spring is tight and cut power.
Let the boat swing. Add power if necessary.
Cast off spring at the right angle and start backing.
Cut power as boat comes straight in slip.
Use short reverse applications just sufficient to keep sternway on.

Roger Long wrote:
Would have worked great too except that I let the RPM's drop too far
while distracted trying to explain to the bow line handler that you
only have to untie one end of the doubled line to slip it (previously
explained but it didn't stick) and the engine quit. (I'm coming to
hate the shutdown with throttle arrangement. An eighth of an inch of
travel is the difference between idle and quitting. The engine should
remain on line until you explicitly want it to stop.) By the time I
got to the starter button and back to the wheel, the wind had us and
the anchor on the roller had gone through the phantom window of the
imaginary powerboat next door.

It probably would have worked fine if I'd been alone. I'd have cast
off the boat and then given my full attention to the rest. This
business of teaching line handling while learning docking is tough.
Nothing like, "You mean this line?", as the kid puts his hand on the
roller jib sheet, to kind of freeze your mental processes at a
critical moment.

It seems to be impossible to predict how line handlers will react.
Worst of all are the well meaning passers-by that think that any line
they can reach must be pulled in and snubbed as tight as possible.
After a dozen years I've finally convinced my wife that she has the
authority to "wave off" anyone that won't listen to her instructions.

I've resorted to color coding all the dock lines, so I can tell people
"the blue line leads aft." And I've wrapped yellow tape on the dock
cleat that gets the first spring line. My final step was to feed a
lifeline cable inside some single braid line so that the loop stays
open and the last 5 feet are stiff enough so that my wife can snag the
cleat as we pass by. The line is set up to snub us just as we
approach the boat in front. If the wind is off the dock I can power
against it to bring the stern in. Today, of course, the helpful
dockhand thought this must be a mistake and tried to remove it just
before it snubbed up!

The other trick I liked on my old boat is a line running from bow to
stern with about 8 feet of slack. Someone that steps to the dock with
this line can control both the bow and the stern. If there is a cleat
in the middle of the slip it can serve as both bow and stern springs.

Jeff wrote:

(stuff deleted)

The other trick I liked on my old boat is a line running from bow to
stern with about 8 feet of slack. Someone that steps to the dock with
this line can control both the bow and the stern. If there is a cleat
in the middle of the slip it can serve as both bow and stern springs.

When I used to single-hand my 31 footer I would tie the bow and stern
lines together - same as your idea, but with the existing lines. Works
well.
Larry Bradley VE3CRX
Remove "removeme" from my e-mail address for direct mail
Ottawa, Canada

(use the e-mail address above to send directly to me)

"Roger Long" wrote:

Would have worked great too except that I let the RPM's drop too far
while distracted trying to explain to the bow line handler that you
only have to untie one end of the doubled line to slip it (previously

This is YOUR fault. You need to explain IN ADVANCE exactly what you
are going to do and what the line handler is going to do, and have
their hand on the line that you want them to be doing something with -
make them repeat it back to you, or whatever it takes.

Bob has learned (and so have I) that it isn't enough for him to say
'you cast off the bow spring' to me. He has to articulate the whole
plan, and I have to repeat it back to him EACH TIME. He can't take it
for granted that I will be able to make the connection if he doesn't
articulate it.

Also if I understand what he is going to be doing with the boat,
sometimes I can help in ways that he has not anticipated.. Like if he
is counting on prop walk to move the stern to the port, and it isn't
doing it, I can pull the bow over to starboard.

Sometimes, even if I let go of one end of the doubled line (we don't
have both ends tied when we are casting off - we just have one end
attached and I hold the other end in my hand, pulling the boat in or
letting it out as necessary), it will bind or stick on something (like
a crack in the boards on the dock or it will get caught around a
piling) so it is necessary to flip it off. Since I don't flip well, I
have to have a boat hook close to hand, just in case.

explained but it didn't stick) and the engine quit. (I'm coming to
hate the shutdown with throttle arrangement. An eighth of an inch of
travel is the difference between idle and quitting. The engine should
remain on line until you explicitly want it to stop.) By the time I
got to the starter button and back to the wheel, the wind had us and
the anchor on the roller had gone through the phantom window of the
imaginary powerboat next door.

It probably would have worked fine if I'd been alone. I'd have cast
off the boat and then given my full attention to the rest. This
business of teaching line handling while learning docking is tough.
Nothing like, "You mean this line?", as the kid puts his hand on the
roller jib sheet, to kind of freeze your mental processes at a
critical moment.

See - you didn't explain it well enough.


grandma Rosalie

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...

This is YOUR fault. You need to explain IN ADVANCE exactly what you
are going to do and what the line handler is going to do, and have
their hand on the line that you want them to be doing something
with -
make them repeat it back to you, or whatever it takes.

I agree 100%. This is the part I trying to learn. I do try to brief
and explain in advance but my crew is on the cusp of impatient,
know-it-all, teenagerhood . Their eyes roll long before I get through
a full explanation and they get that, "can't we just go sailing?"
look. Their mother breaks in and says, "Don't lecture them, just tell
them what you want them to do."

I do put their hand and the cleat and tell them to unwrap it and let
it go. Then I look up and find them fumbling with the end looped fast
into the other cleat that can't be undone because of the tension.
There is a fine line somewhere between boredom and conveying enough
information to cover all possible mix ups that I haven't found yet.

Strange thing is that I used to be a sailing instructor and was
considered a very good one. I used to take people (girls) who had
never been in a boat before in their life out in Solings on Sunday
afternoons in Boston Harbor and talk them through setting the
spinnaker (yes, I was young and dumb then). Everything seems to work
better with non-family members. A lot of this is normal family
dynamics spilling over onto the boat.

--

Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...


It probably would have worked fine if I'd been alone. I'd have cast off
the boat and then given my full attention to the rest. This business of
teaching line handling while learning docking is tough. Nothing like, "You
mean this line?", as the kid puts his hand on the roller jib sheet, to
kind of freeze your mental processes at a critical moment.

BG As I said before and I repeat again .... a line handler can make a good
docking look bad and a bad docking look good.

Take the time to teach them not only the what, but the why and how.

otn

I have a Bruce Roberts 53ft with a long fin keel, 25 ton displacement, 3
blade fixed prop and an 80hp engine. I find that if I use short bursts of
astern (rather than continuous) The rudder has a bigger say in the
proceedings and I suffer much less prop walk. Once she is moving astern, the
prop is maintaining boat speed and no longer trying to accelerate, it almost
feel like I have control