In article ,
Red Cloud® wrote:
Jon is about as argumentative as they come. If you say up, he says down. He is a
very negative person, and it blares forth from his prolific "contributions" to
usenet. Many have suggested that he take a 30 day time-out and collect himself,
but he responds that they all have anger management problems.

He also thinks that anyone who disagrees with him hates him.

He's also able to admit when he's wrong, which I just did. Are you
able to do that?



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Red Cloud® wrote:
On 15 Jun 2005 17:35:50 -0700, lid (Jonathan Ganz) wrote:

In article ,
Red Cloud® wrote:
Jon is about as argumentative as they come. If you say up, he says down. He is a
very negative person, and it blares forth from his prolific "contributions" to
usenet. Many have suggested that he take a 30 day time-out and collect himself,
but he responds that they all have anger management problems.

He also thinks that anyone who disagrees with him hates him.

He's also able to admit when he's wrong, which I just did. Are you
able to do that?

I do it without hesitation... When I'm wrong.

I retired in 1999 from a position where I had about 650 employees. Whenever I
made an error, I would make a point of finding someone and telling them about
it. I could have hidden just about every mistake I ever made. No one would have
ever known unless I said something.

It had a purpose. My employees knew that if THEY screwed up, they could come to
me, so I could help them correct what ever it was. I was never a blamer or a
finger pointer. My goal was to keep the business running as smoothly as possible
under very difficult circumstances. You couldn't have lasted until lunch your
first day there.

Quite a testimonial from someone who doesn't relate well with others
on newsgroups. Assuming what you've said is true, you might want to
investigate your dramatic mood swings.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

"Red Cloud®" wrote in message
...
On 15 Jun 2005 22:25:50 -0700, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

In article ,
Red Cloud® wrote:
On 15 Jun 2005 17:35:50 -0700, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

In article ,
Red Cloud® wrote:
Jon is about as argumentative as they come. If you say up, he says
down. He is a
very negative person, and it blares forth from his prolific
"contributions" to
usenet. Many have suggested that he take a 30 day time-out and collect
himself,
but he responds that they all have anger management problems.

He also thinks that anyone who disagrees with him hates him.

He's also able to admit when he's wrong, which I just did. Are you
able to do that?

I do it without hesitation... When I'm wrong.

I retired in 1999 from a position where I had about 650 employees.
Whenever I
made an error, I would make a point of finding someone and telling them
about
it. I could have hidden just about every mistake I ever made. No one
would have
ever known unless I said something.

It had a purpose. My employees knew that if THEY screwed up, they could
come to
me, so I could help them correct what ever it was. I was never a blamer
or a
finger pointer. My goal was to keep the business running as smoothly as
possible
under very difficult circumstances. You couldn't have lasted until lunch
your
first day there.

Quite a testimonial from someone who doesn't relate well with others
on newsgroups. Assuming what you've said is true, you might want to
investigate your dramatic mood swings.

???

rusty redcloud

Yes.. I know things can be confusing for you at times. I'm still happy to
refer you to a shink.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"JG" wrote in message ...
| "Red Cloud®" wrote in message
| ...
| On 15 Jun 2005 22:25:50 -0700, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
| wrote:
|
| In article ,
| Red Cloud® wrote:
| On 15 Jun 2005 17:35:50 -0700, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
| wrote:
|
| In article ,
| Red Cloud® wrote:
| Jon is about as argumentative as they come. If you say up, he says
| down. He is a
| very negative person, and it blares forth from his prolific
| "contributions" to
| usenet. Many have suggested that he take a 30 day time-out and collect
| himself,
| but he responds that they all have anger management problems.
|
| He also thinks that anyone who disagrees with him hates him.
|
| He's also able to admit when he's wrong, which I just did. Are you
| able to do that?
|
| I do it without hesitation... When I'm wrong.
|
| I retired in 1999 from a position where I had about 650 employees.
| Whenever I
| made an error, I would make a point of finding someone and telling them
| about
| it. I could have hidden just about every mistake I ever made. No one
| would have
| ever known unless I said something.
|
| It had a purpose. My employees knew that if THEY screwed up, they could
| come to
| me, so I could help them correct what ever it was. I was never a blamer
| or a
| finger pointer. My goal was to keep the business running as smoothly as
| possible
| under very difficult circumstances. You couldn't have lasted until lunch
| your
| first day there.
|
| Quite a testimonial from someone who doesn't relate well with others
| on newsgroups. Assuming what you've said is true, you might want to
| investigate your dramatic mood swings.
|
| ???
|
| rusty redcloud
|
| Yes.. I know things can be confusing for you at times. I'm still happy to
| refer you to a shink.
|
| --
| "j" ganz @@
| www.sailnow.com


I guess you have a passel of shrinks on retainer, don't you Gaynz?

CN

Back to the Grampian vs Bayfield beginning.
Having sailed both, one down the ditch, I mailed directly to Mic, the
original poster.
I received two mail watchers replies that his site was not going to be
able to respond to me, because there is "something" wrong there.and my
AV detected it. I went back to the thread and Mic never came back. I am
new to this and neither want to cause a problem or be one.Any comments?

tigerregis wrote:
Back to the Grampian vs Bayfield beginning.
Having sailed both, one down the ditch, I mailed directly to Mic, the
original poster.
I received two mail watchers replies that his site was not going to be
able to respond to me, because there is "something" wrong there.and my
AV detected it. I went back to the thread and Mic never came back. I am
new to this and neither want to cause a problem or be one.Any comments?


I always reply back on the newsgroup unless directed to do differently.
If he's interested, he'll be back.

On 16 Jun 2005 15:23:32 -0700, "tigerregis"
wrote:

Back to the Grampian vs Bayfield beginning.
Having sailed both, one down the ditch, I mailed directly to Mic, the
original poster.
I received two mail watchers replies that his site was not going to be
able to respond to me, because there is "something" wrong there.and my
AV detected it. I went back to the thread and Mic never came back. I am
new to this and neither want to cause a problem or be one.Any comments?

Yep I still participate in the newsgroup, normally that is where you
should post your comments/responses. A sort of "share the knowledge"
puropse and concept of Usenet. Many email address are "munged"
distorted so as to not get farmed and used to spam you with unwanted
email solicitations.

Many contribute to usenet in a positive way. Others just see it as a
place to be nasty. What I havent figured out is if it take more work
to be nasty than nice, why is it that some want to do more
unproductive work? Go figure...

Thats great that you actually sailed a Grampian 26 and been on a
Bayfield 25, both are common and totally different as distinguised by
their rudders and keels, which significantly effect the manner in
which they work best and worst.

I have heard that a B25 circumnavigated, but havent seen any logs or
data as such. The B25 claims to have 3/8 balsa in the vberth, now is
that actually in the hull. The infor that I have is not clear on
that. I know the cabin trunk is balsa cored. But the info. that I
have refers to balsa core somewhere other than in the deck, namely
somewhere else, in particular in the vberth????

TIA

The bayfield lost it's one cyl "vire" 2-stroke on the bay and we sailed
to the Great Wicomico to a marina. Sailed is a misnomer as it would
only tack thru 90 degrees and then head up as trim was applied. I have
sailed on many Gramps as they were built in my home town. They are
tough old birds named after a mtn range in scotlland. They are
comfortable and relatively stiff and will take a lot of hard weather

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:24:07 GMT, (Mic) wrote:

In the process of researching the differences between a Grampian 26
(fin keel, spade rudder) - 4 foot draft
http://www.grampianowners.com/G26/grampian_26.html

http://sailquest.com/market/models/gramp26.htm

and a Bayfield 25 (full keel, keel hung rudder) -3 foot draft
http://sailquest.com/market/models/bayf25.htm

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...5%2F27%2F05%29

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/2536


Ok, here goes my comparison of the Grampian (G26) and the Bayfield
(B25)

G26

Likes:
-good ballast to displacement ratio
-balanced rudder
-4ft keel - inbetween a shoal keel and deep keel
-configured for an outboard on the transom (ie no brackets necessary)
-no bow sprit
-enclosed head
-dinette
-can sleep 5
-rather roomy for a 26ft
-rear 1/4 starboard berth (the pearson P26 doesnt have one)
-full 6ft headroom
-90 degree transom
-fairly fast sailing

Dislikes:
-iron keel -prefer lead
-icebox accessed from the cockpit
-no lazzarette for the outboard
-no opening port lights

B25

Likes:
-beautiful looking - great lines
-full keel
-shoal draft
-keel hung rudder
-handles heavy wind well

Dislikes:
-bow sprit
-encapsulated keel
-usually and inboard diesel or Vire 2 stroke
-no provision for an outboard
-no 1/4 berth
-some have a huge hatch in the cockpit floor for engine access
-brightwork on top to the transom
-small inside
-the headroom is 5'10" except under the sliding hatch6ft
-interior layout vary quite a bit
-unbalance rudder
-I dont believe there are hatch boards - but saloon doors
-slow sailing not great in light airs
-doesnt point to weather well


Now the "ideal" boat would be a Nor'sea 27 with stern cockpit, but way
out of the price range.

Some may disagree but my preferences are for an outboard rather than
an inboard.
A porti-potty rather than a holding tank type setup.

I doubt the builder of the G26 or the B25 built them to be considered
"bluewater boats" although few have used them as such.

With certain "mods" like Dave and Aja on ther 25ft Catalina did for
their circumnavagation these could be contenders.

Other models similar to the G26 is the Pearson 26, Oday 27

Other models similar to the B25 is the Ariel 26, Bristol 27/26

While we're on this topic, do you (or does anyone) know of cruising
books which are NOT written by and for the Crab Crusher Mafia? It seems
like every book I've ever read, even if recently published, starts with
a lengthy discussion about why you must have a boat with all the
characteristics I find unappealing (and often actually unsafe) in a
boat. In my universe, slow and unweatherly are not desirable qualities.


Why are all these writers still living in the 1930s? At best! The
Pardeys are true Luddites, the sailing equivalent of the Amish,
seemingly rejecting anything invented after the ninetheenth century.
And then, of course, given that kind of starting philosophy, the entire
book is slanted in a direction I don't wanna go.

I need an interesting cruising book for the Third Millennium! Ya know,
one that recognizes cutting-edge stuff, like fiberglass and aluminium.
Help!

TIA,

Frank

P.S. Speaking of keeping current, asbestos suits and tinfoil beanies
have been supplanted by nomex and titanium; so get with the program,
Doug! We're living in "the future," a world which is the realization of
the science-fiction books I read as a kid. it's really kinda cool.