I recently had to replace 2 of the blades on my KISS wind generator due
to small cracks which I found near the mounting holes. The blades were
replaced with spares purchased at the same time that the generator was
purchased. One of the replacement blades weighs a lot more than the
other blades and none of the blades weighs the same, even in the
complete spare set. This is causing a lot of vibration.

KISS supplies a lead tape to place along the back side of the blades to
balance them. I made a scale to balance the blades such that they all
weighed the same. One blade ended up with 4" of tape, another with 12"
and one with 18". Even though they weighed the same, it was even worse
than before.

So, does anyone have any ideas how to determine who to determine where
the tape needs to be placed?

-- Geoff

P.S. I'll be out of Internet access for a few days.

On 30 Mar 2005 15:22:25 -0800, "GeoffSchultz"
wrote:

I recently had to replace 2 of the blades on my KISS wind generator due
to small cracks which I found near the mounting holes. The blades were
replaced with spares purchased at the same time that the generator was
purchased. One of the replacement blades weighs a lot more than the
other blades and none of the blades weighs the same, even in the
complete spare set. This is causing a lot of vibration.

KISS supplies a lead tape to place along the back side of the blades to
balance them. I made a scale to balance the blades such that they all
weighed the same. One blade ended up with 4" of tape, another with 12"
and one with 18". Even though they weighed the same, it was even worse
than before.

So, does anyone have any ideas how to determine who to determine where
the tape needs to be placed?

-- Geoff

P.S. I'll be out of Internet access for a few days.

If you have 3 blades I would imagine that one of the blades should not
require any tape. You should only need to match the 2 remaining blades
to the heaviest blade. Am I wrong here???
So it would seem that you could start by removing the 4" piece from
the one blade (heaviest one) and then cutting off 4" from each of the
other 2.

In any case, it would appear that they put the tape on the edge:
http://www.kissenergy.com/TechnicalDescription.html



Jeannette
aa6jh
Bristol 32, San Francisco
http://www.eblw.com/contepartiro/contepartiro.html

"GeoffSchultz" wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently had to replace 2 of the blades on my KISS wind generator due
to small cracks which I found near the mounting holes. The blades were
replaced with spares purchased at the same time that the generator was
purchased. One of the replacement blades weighs a lot more than the
other blades and none of the blades weighs the same, even in the
complete spare set. This is causing a lot of vibration.

KISS supplies a lead tape to place along the back side of the blades to
balance them. I made a scale to balance the blades such that they all
weighed the same. One blade ended up with 4" of tape, another with 12"
and one with 18". Even though they weighed the same, it was even worse
than before.

So, does anyone have any ideas how to determine who to determine where
the tape needs to be placed?

-- Geoff

P.S. I'll be out of Internet access for a few days.

You can't balance them by statically weighing them. My KISS
was able to be balanced by trimming maybe less than an inch of the tape
from 1 or 2 of the blades. Did you try and balancing them according to the
procedure in the manual? I had no trouble doing it that way. The balance of
the blades depends not only upon the weight but the distribution of the
weight
along the length of the blade. ie a bit of weight further out on the blade
has
more affect than the same amount of weight close to the root. Also,
replacing only 2 out of three blades may not be a good idea. My KISS blades
after 3 years of service have clearly eroded. I do have a spare set and I
suspect
that the new blades probably weigh more than the original ones.

My suggestion is to use a complete set of new blades and use the original
balancing technique.

Doug
s/v Callista

"jeannette" wrote in message
...
On 30 Mar 2005 15:22:25 -0800, "GeoffSchultz"
wrote:

I recently had to replace 2 of the blades on my KISS wind generator due
to small cracks which I found near the mounting holes. The blades were
replaced with spares purchased at the same time that the generator was
purchased. One of the replacement blades weighs a lot more than the
other blades and none of the blades weighs the same, even in the
complete spare set. This is causing a lot of vibration.

KISS supplies a lead tape to place along the back side of the blades to
balance them. I made a scale to balance the blades such that they all
weighed the same. One blade ended up with 4" of tape, another with 12"
and one with 18". Even though they weighed the same, it was even worse
than before.

So, does anyone have any ideas how to determine who to determine where
the tape needs to be placed?

-- Geoff

P.S. I'll be out of Internet access for a few days.

If you have 3 blades I would imagine that one of the blades should not
require any tape. You should only need to match the 2 remaining blades
to the heaviest blade. Am I wrong here???
So it would seem that you could start by removing the 4" piece from
the one blade (heaviest one) and then cutting off 4" from each of the
other 2.

In any case, it would appear that they put the tape on the edge:
http://www.kissenergy.com/TechnicalDescription.html



Jeannette
aa6jh
Bristol 32, San Francisco
http://www.eblw.com/contepartiro/contepartiro.html

The blades come with the lead tape already installed. About 8" or
so along the leading edge at the root. To balance mine I removed about 1/16"
at a time until it was balanced.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

Doug Dotson wrote:
"GeoffSchultz" wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently had to replace 2 of the blades on my KISS wind generator
due
to small cracks which I found near the mounting holes. The blades
were
replaced with spares purchased at the same time that the generator
was
purchased. One of the replacement blades weighs a lot more than
the
other blades and none of the blades weighs the same, even in the
complete spare set. This is causing a lot of vibration.

KISS supplies a lead tape to place along the back side of the
blades to
balance them. I made a scale to balance the blades such that they
all
weighed the same. One blade ended up with 4" of tape, another with
12"
and one with 18". Even though they weighed the same, it was even
worse
than before.

So, does anyone have any ideas how to determine who to determine
where
the tape needs to be placed?

-- Geoff

P.S. I'll be out of Internet access for a few days.

You can't balance them by statically weighing them. My KISS
was able to be balanced by trimming maybe less than an inch of the
tape
from 1 or 2 of the blades. Did you try and balancing them according
to the
procedure in the manual? I had no trouble doing it that way. The
balance of
the blades depends not only upon the weight but the distribution of
the
weight
along the length of the blade. ie a bit of weight further out on the
blade
has
more affect than the same amount of weight close to the root. Also,
replacing only 2 out of three blades may not be a good idea. My KISS
blades
after 3 years of service have clearly eroded. I do have a spare set
and I
suspect
that the new blades probably weigh more than the original ones.

My suggestion is to use a complete set of new blades and use the
original
balancing technique.

Doug
s/v Callista

The problem with replacing all 3 blades is that the 3rd blade of the
replacement set has a very large front to back warp to it which causes
a lot of vibration on it's own. To explain further, when the blades
spin the tips of the blades should rotate on the same "X" plane and
have little "Y" plane variation. However, the 3rd replacement blade
has about 5/8" of Y plane variation.

All of the blades were stored together and wrapped in foam. The
original set had some variation, but I was able to correct that by
placing tape shims on the hub where the blades attach. The 5/8"
variation is too much to correct that way, so I'm only using 2 of the
spare blades.

I suspect that this is due to differences in the manufacturing/curing
process. They're made in Trinidad and I suspect that the process may
have a lot of variables in it, and this has lead to the differences in
the blades.

In the past I've tried to use their prescribed method of balancing the
blades, which requires turning the blades in a windless environment and
determining which blade is heavier. That's great if you're somewhere
where the wind isn't blowing, but in the Caribbean that's almost never.
Moving the generator to a sheltered location would be a major project,
so forget that.

I thought that this would be similar to balancing a tire or a ceiling
fan and I hoped that someone would have a good method to achieve this
given my environment.

-- Geoff

Doug Dotson wrote:
"GeoffSchultz" wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently had to replace 2 of the blades on my KISS wind generator
due
to small cracks which I found near the mounting holes. The blades
were
replaced with spares purchased at the same time that the generator
was
purchased. One of the replacement blades weighs a lot more than
the
other blades and none of the blades weighs the same, even in the
complete spare set. This is causing a lot of vibration.

KISS supplies a lead tape to place along the back side of the
blades to
balance them. I made a scale to balance the blades such that they
all
weighed the same. One blade ended up with 4" of tape, another with
12"
and one with 18". Even though they weighed the same, it was even
worse
than before.

So, does anyone have any ideas how to determine who to determine
where
the tape needs to be placed?

-- Geoff

P.S. I'll be out of Internet access for a few days.

You can't balance them by statically weighing them. My KISS
was able to be balanced by trimming maybe less than an inch of the
tape
from 1 or 2 of the blades. Did you try and balancing them according
to the
procedure in the manual? I had no trouble doing it that way. The
balance of
the blades depends not only upon the weight but the distribution of
the
weight
along the length of the blade. ie a bit of weight further out on the
blade
has
more affect than the same amount of weight close to the root. Also,
replacing only 2 out of three blades may not be a good idea. My KISS
blades
after 3 years of service have clearly eroded. I do have a spare set
and I
suspect
that the new blades probably weigh more than the original ones.

My suggestion is to use a complete set of new blades and use the
original
balancing technique.

Doug
s/v Callista

The problem with replacing all 3 blades is that the 3rd blade of the
replacement set has a very large front to back warp to it which causes
a lot of vibration on it's own. To explain further, when the blades
spin the tips of the blades should rotate on the same "X" plane and
have little "Y" plane variation. However, the 3rd replacement blade
has about 5/8" of Y plane variation.

All of the blades were stored together and wrapped in foam. The
original set had some variation, but I was able to correct that by
placing tape shims on the hub where the blades attach. The 5/8"
variation is too much to correct that way, so I'm only using 2 of the
spare blades.

I suspect that this is due to differences in the manufacturing/curing
process. They're made in Trinidad and I suspect that the process may
have a lot of variables in it, and this has lead to the differences in
the blades.

In the past I've tried to use their prescribed method of balancing the
blades, which requires turning the blades in a windless environment and
determining which blade is heavier. That's great if you're somewhere
where the wind isn't blowing, but in the Caribbean that's almost never.
Moving the generator to a sheltered location would be a major project,
so forget that.

I thought that this would be similar to balancing a tire or a ceiling
fan and I hoped that someone would have a good method to achieve this
given my environment.

-- Geoff

"GeoffSchultz" wrote in message
oups.com...

Doug Dotson wrote:
"GeoffSchultz" wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently had to replace 2 of the blades on my KISS wind generator
due
to small cracks which I found near the mounting holes. The blades
were
replaced with spares purchased at the same time that the generator
was
purchased. One of the replacement blades weighs a lot more than
the
other blades and none of the blades weighs the same, even in the
complete spare set. This is causing a lot of vibration.

KISS supplies a lead tape to place along the back side of the
blades to
balance them. I made a scale to balance the blades such that they
all
weighed the same. One blade ended up with 4" of tape, another with
12"
and one with 18". Even though they weighed the same, it was even
worse
than before.

So, does anyone have any ideas how to determine who to determine
where
the tape needs to be placed?

-- Geoff

P.S. I'll be out of Internet access for a few days.

You can't balance them by statically weighing them. My KISS
was able to be balanced by trimming maybe less than an inch of the
tape
from 1 or 2 of the blades. Did you try and balancing them according
to the
procedure in the manual? I had no trouble doing it that way. The
balance of
the blades depends not only upon the weight but the distribution of
the
weight
along the length of the blade. ie a bit of weight further out on the
blade
has
more affect than the same amount of weight close to the root. Also,
replacing only 2 out of three blades may not be a good idea. My KISS
blades
after 3 years of service have clearly eroded. I do have a spare set
and I
suspect
that the new blades probably weigh more than the original ones.

My suggestion is to use a complete set of new blades and use the
original
balancing technique.

Doug
s/v Callista

The problem with replacing all 3 blades is that the 3rd blade of the
replacement set has a very large front to back warp to it which causes
a lot of vibration on it's own. To explain further, when the blades
spin the tips of the blades should rotate on the same "X" plane and
have little "Y" plane variation. However, the 3rd replacement blade
has about 5/8" of Y plane variation.

Order a new blade or a new set. I'm sure Doug weill make good on
the defective set.

All of the blades were stored together and wrapped in foam. The
original set had some variation, but I was able to correct that by
placing tape shims on the hub where the blades attach. The 5/8"
variation is too much to correct that way, so I'm only using 2 of the
spare blades.

I would have contacted KISS when the original set didn;t work.

I suspect that this is due to differences in the manufacturing/curing
process. They're made in Trinidad and I suspect that the process may
have a lot of variables in it, and this has lead to the differences in
the blades.

I have friends that have visited the factory. Small, but well organized. My
original
and replacements were fine. Again, contact the factory for advice. I've had
nothing but experiences with them.

In the past I've tried to use their prescribed method of balancing the
blades, which requires turning the blades in a windless environment and
determining which blade is heavier. That's great if you're somewhere
where the wind isn't blowing, but in the Caribbean that's almost never.
Moving the generator to a sheltered location would be a major project,
so forget that.

Balanceing the blades has never required doing it on the generator itself.
Only the blade assembly (hub + blades) using the supplied balancing shaft
is necessary.

I thought that this would be similar to balancing a tire or a ceiling
fan and I hoped that someone would have a good method to achieve this
given my environment.

I'm sure you can find an environment that will be sufficent. It doesn;t
require
much.

-- Geoff


Doug

Just an afterthought: You CAN'T balance the blades on the generator itself.
The bearing friction and just the nature of a PM generator do not allow
the blades to freewheel.

Doug

"GeoffSchultz" wrote in message
oups.com...

Doug Dotson wrote:
"GeoffSchultz" wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently had to replace 2 of the blades on my KISS wind generator
due
to small cracks which I found near the mounting holes. The blades
were
replaced with spares purchased at the same time that the generator
was
purchased. One of the replacement blades weighs a lot more than
the
other blades and none of the blades weighs the same, even in the
complete spare set. This is causing a lot of vibration.

KISS supplies a lead tape to place along the back side of the
blades to
balance them. I made a scale to balance the blades such that they
all
weighed the same. One blade ended up with 4" of tape, another with
12"
and one with 18". Even though they weighed the same, it was even
worse
than before.

So, does anyone have any ideas how to determine who to determine
where
the tape needs to be placed?

-- Geoff

P.S. I'll be out of Internet access for a few days.

You can't balance them by statically weighing them. My KISS
was able to be balanced by trimming maybe less than an inch of the
tape
from 1 or 2 of the blades. Did you try and balancing them according
to the
procedure in the manual? I had no trouble doing it that way. The
balance of
the blades depends not only upon the weight but the distribution of
the
weight
along the length of the blade. ie a bit of weight further out on the
blade
has
more affect than the same amount of weight close to the root. Also,
replacing only 2 out of three blades may not be a good idea. My KISS
blades
after 3 years of service have clearly eroded. I do have a spare set
and I
suspect
that the new blades probably weigh more than the original ones.

My suggestion is to use a complete set of new blades and use the
original
balancing technique.

Doug
s/v Callista

The problem with replacing all 3 blades is that the 3rd blade of the
replacement set has a very large front to back warp to it which causes
a lot of vibration on it's own. To explain further, when the blades
spin the tips of the blades should rotate on the same "X" plane and
have little "Y" plane variation. However, the 3rd replacement blade
has about 5/8" of Y plane variation.

All of the blades were stored together and wrapped in foam. The
original set had some variation, but I was able to correct that by
placing tape shims on the hub where the blades attach. The 5/8"
variation is too much to correct that way, so I'm only using 2 of the
spare blades.

I suspect that this is due to differences in the manufacturing/curing
process. They're made in Trinidad and I suspect that the process may
have a lot of variables in it, and this has lead to the differences in
the blades.

In the past I've tried to use their prescribed method of balancing the
blades, which requires turning the blades in a windless environment and
determining which blade is heavier. That's great if you're somewhere
where the wind isn't blowing, but in the Caribbean that's almost never.
Moving the generator to a sheltered location would be a major project,
so forget that.

I thought that this would be similar to balancing a tire or a ceiling
fan and I hoped that someone would have a good method to achieve this
given my environment.

-- Geoff

Balanceing the blades has never required doing it on the generator
itself.
Only the blade assembly (hub + blades) using the supplied balancing
shaft
is necessary.

Call me confused. What "supplied balancing shaft" are you talking
about. I never received anything like that.

-- Geoff

Geoff,

You should have received a short tapered threaded shaft that is identical
to the shaft on the generator itself. You install it into the hub with the
blades attached (hub/blade assembly not installed on the generator).
Then you arrange a couple of horizontal surfaces close enough together
to allow the assembly to rest with the shaft with one end on each surface.
Two tables moved close together is what I used. That
way the hub/blades can rotate almost frictionless. Then you observe the
heavy
blade drop and incrementally remove the tape until you can give the blades
a spin and have no particular blade end up at the bottom. Take a look at the
section entitled "Rotor Balancing" in the manual. It describes the entire
process.

Doug
s/v Callista


"GeoffSchultz" wrote in message
oups.com...
Balanceing the blades has never required doing it on the generator
itself.
Only the blade assembly (hub + blades) using the supplied balancing
shaft
is necessary.

Call me confused. What "supplied balancing shaft" are you talking
about. I never received anything like that.

-- Geoff