On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 19:08:41 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Calder points out how battery life is increased by minimizing
discharge level. No matter how many batteries you have in the boat,
you'll get maximum life by putting them in one bank. Keeping a
starting battery isolated and in reserve is obviously a necessary
compromise for most craft. However, with a 20 hp diesel, modest
starting loads, and the ability to hand start, I'm thinking that the
simplicity of a one bank system might make sense for a daysailing,
short cruise boat, that is docked with shore power. If the batteries
did get run down away from home, I'd be willing to hand start in
penance.

The key question is whether a two cylinder diesel like a 20 hp Yanmar
2QM can really be hand started or if it is an "only when your life
absolutely depends on it" kind of operation. I don't have much
experience with engines under 200 HP so I'd appreciate the benefit of
actual experience.

I was completely unable to hand crank a 3-cyl Yanmar to start. I weigh
190 and am not weak. We repowered with a later (3GMH) about 12 years
ago and that one didn't even have a place to put a crank.

I suggest you try it on your own engine. I think it would work with a
big enough flywheel, but as it is closing one compression release
stops it instantly in my experience.

OTOH, taking off the compression it will spin with a pretty dead
battery and start when you close it. It is a matter of how fast you
can get it to spin before you close the valve.

I know a one-cylinder Volvo can be hand started, by a reliable
witness.




Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


The sound of a Great Blue Heron's wingbeats going by your head

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:40:18 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:


"Marley" wrote in message
. ..
Roger Long wrote:
Another option
http://www.springstarter.com/


Hey, that is very, very cool.

BTW it's a used boat. I inspected it personally and tried the crank in
position. One of the first things I'm going to do is try and start it.
I'll let you know how it goes.


If you inboard is hand crank equipped like mine was on a previous boat,
you REALLY don't need to hand crank it when the battery runs down.

I killed my battery at anchor a few times (thank you Espar!).

You should thank yourself. The ESPAR had your permission to run

No problem. As long as you have two people aboard:

Depends upon the engine. Both of my previous Yanmars could be
crank started by one person.

1 person lifts the decompression lever, which makes the engine turn over
fairly easily.

The second person pushes the start switch and once the engine is moving
and the flywheel is doing it's job, just drop the decompression lever and
she'll start like a charm.

What does the start switch have to do with it?

Hand cranking was never required and I killed the battery sufficiently
that the lights were dim. I left the Espar running all night in cold fall
weather.

With the decompression levers engaged, it doesn;t take much to get the
engine spinning enough to start.

That is really interesting. I wonder why it was so hard on the one I
had. Maybe something to do with why it blew up. It is academic now.
The new on has no place for a crank.

I never had any trouble cranking an Atomic 4, but that is very
different from a diesel.


Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


The sound of a Great Blue Heron's wingbeats going by your head

In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote:

Calder points out how battery life is increased by minimizing
discharge level. No matter how many batteries you have in the boat,
you'll get maximum life by putting them in one bank. Keeping a
starting battery isolated and in reserve is obviously a necessary
compromise for most craft. However, with a 20 hp diesel, modest
starting loads, and the ability to hand start, I'm thinking that the
simplicity of a one bank system might make sense for a daysailing,
short cruise boat, that is docked with shore power. If the batteries
did get run down away from home, I'd be willing to hand start in
penance.

The key question is whether a two cylinder diesel like a 20 hp Yanmar
2QM can really be hand started or if it is an "only when your life
absolutely depends on it" kind of operation. I don't have much
experience with engines under 200 HP so I'd appreciate the benefit of
actual experience.

We have a fairly recent 2GM20F. No provision for hand-starting.

But a single bank is feasible, at least on the Chesapeake during the
season, with the addition of a small solar cell. Ours is 12w. On last
year's cruise, the battery was dead flat one morning. Switched
everything off but the solar cell and we could start by mid-morning.
Since it tops things off between weekends, we only need to use the
engine for motive power. Have never had healthier batteries; the one I
expected to replace was rejuvenated.

Eventually, we will have a dedicated engine battery with absolutely the
shortest possible leads. House bank will normally be isolated by a
simple on/off switch, the cell keeping it healthy. Won't be able to fry
the alternator by tossing a switch.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Roger Long wrote:
Calder points out how battery life is increased by minimizing
discharge level. No matter how many batteries you have in the boat,
you'll get maximum life by putting them in one bank. Keeping a
starting battery isolated and in reserve is obviously a necessary
compromise for most craft. However, with a 20 hp diesel, modest
starting loads, and the ability to hand start, I'm thinking that the
simplicity of a one bank system might make sense for a daysailing,
short cruise boat, that is docked with shore power. If the batteries
did get run down away from home, I'd be willing to hand start in
penance.

The key question is whether a two cylinder diesel like a 20 hp Yanmar
2QM can really be hand started or if it is an "only when your life
absolutely depends on it" kind of operation. I don't have much
experience with engines under 200 HP so I'd appreciate the benefit of
actual experience.

Only if your life depends on it is about right. I've seen somebody
hand start a 1 cylinder YSM Yanmar and it wasn't pretty. Those ones
have a huge flywheel.

How about using one of those little portable "booster batteries" that
basically provide a jump start to a mostly discharged battery? They
are only about 15 lbs and pretty compact.

They might not start a 2QM without another house battery providing
some current but I bet they would start it with a depleted house bank.

Evan Gatehouse

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 23:29:44 -0500, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

I know a one-cylinder Volvo can be hand started, by a reliable
witness.
=========================

I have hand started both 1 and 2 cylinder Volvo diesels. It is not
difficult. They have large flywheels which tends to make it easier
than some other engines.

Doug Dotson wrote:
"Marley" wrote in message
.. .

Roger Long wrote:

Another option
http://www.springstarter.com/


Hey, that is very, very cool.

BTW it's a used boat. I inspected it personally and tried the crank in
position. One of the first things I'm going to do is try and start it.
I'll let you know how it goes.


If you inboard is hand crank equipped like mine was on a previous boat,
you REALLY don't need to hand crank it when the battery runs down.

I killed my battery at anchor a few times (thank you Espar!).


You should thank yourself. The ESPAR had your permission to run


No problem. As long as you have two people aboard:


Depends upon the engine. Both of my previous Yanmars could be
crank started by one person.


1 person lifts the decompression lever, which makes the engine turn over
fairly easily.

The second person pushes the start switch and once the engine is moving
and the flywheel is doing it's job, just drop the decompression lever and
she'll start like a charm.


What does the start switch have to do with it?


Hand cranking was never required and I killed the battery sufficiently
that the lights were dim. I left the Espar running all night in cold fall
weather.


With the decompression levers engaged, it doesn;t take much to get the
engine spinning enough to start.



Doug

You REALLY need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

Seriously!
M

In article , _NOSPAM
says...


How about using one of those little portable "booster batteries" that
basically provide a jump start to a mostly discharged battery? They
are only about 15 lbs and pretty compact.

When your battery goes flat and you call Boat US an orange booster pack is
what they arrive with. But my own experience with a diesel car on a very
cold morning is that the boosters don't have enough oomph to start any
diesel anytime though they seem to get the job done on 35HP diesels at
summer temperatures.

The consensus from the owner's forum for my boat on emergency starting
a 2 cylinder Yanmar seems to be this:

For emergency starting with dead batteries, carry one of the following
on board. A Westmarine emergency battery pack or an NFL linebacker
properly trained and housebroken.

--

Roger Long

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
But a single bank is feasible, at least on the Chesapeake during the
season, with the addition of a small solar cell. Ours is 12w. On last
year's cruise, the battery was dead flat one morning. Switched
everything off but the solar cell and we could start by mid-morning.
Since it tops things off between weekends, we only need to use the
engine for motive power. Have never had healthier batteries; the one I
expected to replace was rejuvenated.

It is this premise on which I'm making the move to solar and wind as my
(nearly - the engine has a small-by-large-frame-standards alternator, and
I'll have a briefcase Honda genset in the Laz for shore duty) only charging
sources.

Barring some unforeseen catastrophe, our batteries should last a *very* long
time, as they'll be topped up continuously, gently, and the everyday power
usages will mostly be covered by current (pardon the expression) input.
FWIW, 6 L16HC are on the list...

We, too, will have an extremely short run from the starter to batteries.
Browse around
http://www.dv-fansler.com/FTP%20File...r%20System.pdf
this and the site from which it came for some pretty good electrical
discussion.

L8R

Skip, about to go back and start that part of the refit

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Roger Long wrote:
The consensus from the owner's forum for my boat on emergency starting
a 2 cylinder Yanmar seems to be this:

For emergency starting with dead batteries, carry one of the following
on board. A Westmarine emergency battery pack or an NFL linebacker
properly trained and housebroken.

So why not just carry a two batteries instead of the emergency pack?
You can get AGM starters from an auto shop at about $100. With the
low self discharge you can jut keep one in reserve for the weekend.