In article ,
Alan Frame wrote:
TTBOMK all CalMac RO-RO ferries have VS propulsion units and they
have a lot of ferries.

"The Earth belongs unto the Lord, and all that it contains,
except the Western Isles, for they are all MacBraynes"

Hi Alan

Did you read it or write it :-))

--
T h e - e x t e n d e r ! ! ! !

"Karl Denninger" wrote in message
news:8vkWd.37539$755.36432@lakeread05...

In article ,
renewontime dot com wrote:


Fascinating. I'd like to learn more - can you point me at any web
sites? I can't find anything much over 25kts.

Our site has a news section, or try
http://www.marinelink.com/main/main.asp but I did a quick search on the
net and didn't find much. Better to get a subscription to "Maritime
Reporter" and "MarineNews", in the current issues there are several
articles about "high speed" vessels.

The only ships around here that run 30+ knots are the ones that are
painted
gray and have assorted pointy things sticking out from various parts of
their
superstructure.

Oh yeah, if you approach at a closing rate which they determine to be
potentially hostile, they will use the pointy things.

That will definitely ruin your day.

When I'm offshore my radar is up and operating. That's the best
visibility
enhancer that I've got.

I can see SHIPS out 8-10nm or so (visually) on a clear day/night, and on
radar quite a bit further. Land disappears 10ish nm around here, in no
small part due to the elevation of some of the buildings (which helps)

Small boats are usually not visible to the naked eye much beyond 4nm or
so,
although I will often tag them on radar significantly before that.

All this from my flybridge.

You want to try the Irish Sea for fast ferries, there are quite a few
running between Ireland/England/Isle of Man/Scotland/Wales. A couple of
years ago we were on passage from Dun Laoghaire to Holyhead, around 55
miles, and
saw the Stena Explorer 5 bloody times as she came past on the same route but
at 40 kts compared to our 6kts. Called her up on one pass and was glad to
hear their radar was picking us up at approx 8 miles each time.

Have a look at:-

http://www7.stenaline.co.uk/servlet/...t.presentation
..Main?data.node.id=1879&data.language.id=2

Graham.

Armond Perretta wrote:
otnmbrd wrote:

"Armond Perretta" wrote in message news:

I can tell you from my own experience that contacting and staying
out of the way of commercial vessels, no matter what their type or
classification, is not at all simple. What it boils down to, it
seems to me, is that the small boat operator should get out of the
way and worry later about the effectiveness of lights,
communication devices, warning systems, etc ...

The one bit of good news is that under most cases, a large ship or
G smaller ferry will tend to be on a set and predictable route
(exceptions noted) so that you will at least have a reasonable idea
of where from, where to, and possible points of intended course
change when estimating how a particular sighting may affect your
course ...


There seem to be large numbers of small boat operators who actually believe
that commercial vessels will, in the general case, take action to avoid
small boats. Although few commercial vessels will intentionally neglect
taking appropriate action, it is indeed foolish to assume that the onus is
on the commercial vessel.

BG The "onus" is on the commercial vessel to treat every size/type
vessel, the same, under the rules.
Now that we've got "that" bit of legal claptrap out of the way ..... In
the real world, most "ship" people have learned that when they run
across a bunch of weekend recreational boaters, their safest approach is
to maintain course and speed and save the "course change" for a point
after the whistle when in extremis.
Having said this, when offshore or meeting a lone "small boater" where
there are no immediate hazards to navigation for the ship, I'd say you
have a 50/50 chance the ship will gladly maneuver, as long as your
heading remains consistent and they indeed have seen you at a point
where they have sufficient time to assess and make a maneuver.
At any rate, as a small boater, if you always assume that big guy is
working under the "gross tonnage" rule, you shouldn't have too many
problems.

At the same time I have on several occasions encountered commercial vessels
inshore who "wandered" in the same way that pleasure boaters are wont to do
(as you mentioned above). Chief among these are commercial fishermen of
course, but I recall several cases where large cruise ships, evidently
engaged in casino-related activities, seemed to be chasing me all over the
place no matter how much I tried to pass by or avoid getting too close.
This is something one encounters quite a bit in south Florida, but the same
thing has happened to me in the Boston entrance lanes and off Halifax NS.


You'll note in my above I stated "exceptions noted". You will always be
apt to run across some large vessel that is "wandering". My best
advice..... stay well clear!
G Commercial fishermen. I forget at times that we all may have
different views as to what constitutes "commercial".
A commercial fisherman is indeed "commercial", but I treat them with
"small boats" except that I have far fewer concerns when dealing with
them, as I am generally comfortable with meeting them, especially when
it's a group, that they will stay clear of me .... but YOU should not
feel the same..... and if it's a one on one open ocean condition I treat
them under the "rules".
As always, trust no one but yourself, to maneuver to avoid, under any
conditions, and note that my comments are mainly meant to increase your
awareness of the possibilities .... not as gospel for all operators.

otn

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 16:24:04 -0500, rhys wrote:

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 17:53:41 GMT, New Conservative
wrote:

Your New Conservative website isn't working well with the Firefox
browser, by the way. It just produces a bunch of source code.

Thanks; we'll look into it.
--

"Suffer no one to tell you what to think."
Martin Smith, the New Conservative Party.

http://www.newconservativeparty.org

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 16:19:40 -0500, rhys wrote:

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 11:15:16 -0500, Jan
wrote:

Rhys,
Why on earth do you bother with all that?

It's good practice for me as I plan on sailing a lot more in the
future than I do now.

I can understand that. Fortunately, being retired, I can get out on the lake
most days during our too short summer, this may affect my thinking.G

I too, sail Lake Ontario, out of Port Credit. I merely follow two
basic rules of my own, one is, "Might is right" and the other is,
"Don't play with the big boys." This applies both by day and
night.

True, but I also race sailboats, and we are sticklers for rules G.

Ah, perhaps I should add rule number 3, "Rules are for the guidance of wise men
and the strict obedience of fools." VBG

Procedure is simple, identify lake freighter, not too difficult, determine
course of lake freighter, again, not too difficult, and, if necessary, adjust my
own course to take me astern of lake freighter. I don't really care whether or
not they see me, if I can see them, I'll stay out of their way.

They should stay used to looking for you. That's *their* job, as well.
What if you are becalmed, engine dead, and adrift? Maybe your
electrics are shorted out, maybe you've been hit by lightning or are
taking on water. If they aren't habitually keeping a watch for "small
stuff", you are in even greater danger. The responsibility cuts two
ways.

While I agree with you that it *should* be the duty of the large vessels to keep
an effective look-out, with the best will in the world, I can't imagine them
changing course every time they come across a sail-boat on Lake Ontario.
Especially if they are on course for one of their delivery points. Not only
that, I am all too well aware that merchant vessels of all shapes and sizes sail
with the minimum crew they can legally get away with on pure economic grounds.
Not that this excuses them for not keeping a good look out, but I really think
this is a case of where the pleasure sailor/boater should exercise some common
sense and just keep out of their way, not stick blindly to some rule that was
written years ago when real sailing ships were common. Just my opinion mind
you.
Regarding the second part of the paragraph. If any of those situations, or a
combination of same occurred, this presents a different ball-game and you would
see this ancient mariner making sure the dinghy was fully inflated, if the radio
was working, anyone in hearing would know there was trouble and flares would be
going off making the ex look like a side-show.BG There would be little doubt
that I would not only be seen, but heard very loudly also.

The crews of the lake freighters are, after all, making their living by sailing that ship, I
on the other hand, am merely playing around. Also, my vessel is far more
maneuverable than theirs, so it's easier for me to take avoiding action.

True also. Lake frieghter don't tend toward "sudden moves". 150-foot
"disco boats" can and do, and they are making a living, too, and are
obliged to observe the same rules as me.

R.
Agreed, the "party/disco boats" are a right royal PITA, but again, they usually
follow pretty well the same course over and over. I have spent many a night
alongside at Hanlan's Point and cursed them as they come by with the DJ blasting
away, however, they are usually all gone by 21:00 and, with a certain sadistic
pleasure I like to imagine the party-goers drooling with envy at us boaters tied
up and enjoying the peace and tranquility.G
My perception of all this may well be tinged by having spent 7 years in the
Royal Navy and being keenly aware of the fact that even destroyers and frigates
have a reaction time. Naval ships don't have a wheel-house as such in or on the
bridge, so the officer of the watch has to identify the object then pass
steering orders to the person at the helm who then has to react without being
able to see what's going on outside.

Jan
"If you can't take a joke,you shouldn't have joined"

I agree with everything you said (pretty easy as we're not talking
politics, guns or the mental state of some posters), but in my "inland
waters" case of Lake Ontario, I consider a 406 EPIRB overkill.

Hi R.,

I was not referring to the Great Lakes (or any other inland lake for
that matter), but rather offshore, bluewater cruising. I must profess
that I haven't sailed the Great Lakes since I was a kid, so I don't have
any recent experience to draw on.

Generally speaking though, a cell phone is better than nothing at all,
but has several shortcomings for emergency communications, in
particular: the CG cannot take RDF bearings of your signal, so no
position can be found from your signal alone. There have been several
cases of sailors and fishermen here (Hawaiian Islands) who have run into
trouble, had only enough power or signal for a brief call on their cell
phone to the USCG, but the CG was unable to assist. Because the CG
wasn't able to take bearings of the signal, no position or even rough
idea of the distress caller's position was known, so CG assets weren't
deployed.

A marine VHF would have probably been better, but is still limited to
line-of-sight distances (which because the CG antennas are on top of
mountains equates to about 24 - 30 miles). In these particular
situations a 406 EPRIB would have been many times more effective in
summoning help.

It may be overkill, but I'd still give it serious consideration on the
Great Lakes.

--

=-------------------------------------------------=
Renewontime
A FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners
http://www.renewontime.com
=-------------------------------------------------=

(Steve Firth) wrote:

Dan wrote:

It's about 100 feet long throws up spray & makes the noise of a
Squadron of Concordes. You can see and hear it the other side of the
bloody Solent!

Not to change the topic, but

Last fall we were sailing down the Chesapeake off Mobjack Bay

What we saw is the inset in the 3rd photo here.

http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/tt/58160/#TL

Suddenly I look over and say to Bob - Is that boat on fire? I half think of calling the Coast Guard on the radio to report it, but as we watch I see that it is water being sprayed up into a cloudlike mass. Bob asks retorically if the Navy is testing the hovercraft again. I remark that it is a good day for it - pretty much flat calm.

Eventually the hovercraft stops and just sits there in the water. When it is sitting still, you can see the big fans on the back that make it go.


grandma Rosalie

Sandy Morton wrote:

Alan Frame wrote:
TTBOMK all CalMac RO-RO ferries have VS propulsion units and they
have a lot of ferries.

"The Earth belongs unto the Lord, and all that it contains,
except the Western Isles, for they are all MacBraynes"

Hi Alan

Did you read it or write it :-))

It's one of those sayings that I remember my Father saying around 30
years ago - probably on the Largs-Cumbrae ferry... ;-)

rgds, Alan
--
99 Ducati 748BP, 95 Ducati 600SS, 81 Guzzi Monza, 74 MV Agusta 350
"Ride to Work, Work to Ride" SI# 7.067 DoD#1930 PGP Key 0xBDED56C5

prodigal1 wrote in message ...
DannyBoy wrote:
I was indeed being a ****

funny how some slang just doesn't translate well across the pond

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=****

Afganistan & Iraq, already. Iran next. Won't be long before we'll be
using the language you tell us to...

DannyBoy wrote:
prodigal1 wrote in message ...

DannyBoy wrote:

I was indeed being a ****

funny how some slang just doesn't translate well across the pond

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=****


Afganistan & Iraq, already. Iran next. Won't be long before we'll be
using the language you tell us to...

No need to be insulting. Yankees aren't the only English speakers on
this side of the Atlantic. Did I need to put a smiley at the end of the
post? Not trying to tell you how to talk but rather what you were
understood to say over here. Personally I thought it quite funny that
you were calling yourself a #@%* for not getting the point.