so, over-the-knee, you are dying to tell us about your extensive experience
having sex with small furry animals, are ya?

well, whatever floats your rubber ducky.

From: otnmbrd
Date: 11/10/2004 10:20 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:



JAXAshby wrote:
no, of course not. Those with 4x layer aluminum foil helmets are having
sex
with small furry animals.


From: otnmbrd
Date: 11/10/2004 9:32 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: .net

Not always

JAXAshby wrote:

They use their hats when a blow is expected. They put them on and leave.
Simple. If you don't understand that metaphor, think "searoom"

Typical response, considering your highly limited experience and knowledge.

otn

Thanks, Charles, for repeating what I stated in this thread from my very first
post.

I have read much of but not the entire thread (life to live...), but the
other putative benefit of a buoy in the rode is that the bow of the boat
won't be subjected to such violent forces as it pitches up and down in
waves. The rode as attached to the boat is closer to horizontal, so doesn't
jerk the boat down so hard on every rising wave as when the rode as attached
to the boat is more vertical.

So I've read!!

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

====

"Steve Smith" wrote in message
. com...
Hi all

... surprised to see recommended that a mooring-type buoy be used
rather than attaching some other flotation to the intact anchor chain
(one more link to go wrong).

In other words, you can't figure out the difference between nylon and polypropylene.
Its a good thing you never go sailing.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, stay tied to the dock. again. you are lost to this universe. still.
this subject is way beyond you. as always.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 9:45 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

I was right, you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene.
Are you
really claiming nylon fails after stretching 4%? Why do you think NE Ropes
says
nylon 3-strand has "high elongation"?

Here's the link again. Nylon 3-strand: 15% working elongation at 15% tensile

strength. (OK, maybe 14%)
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, go read the damned thing. then read it again, and again and
again.
then if you STILL don't understand what it says, go look at plaited rope vs
elongation, and THEN look at springy mountain climbing rope.

4 frickin' %, jeffies. get your wife to explain it to you.



From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:17 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Read what, jaxie? The chart is very clear that the "working elongation" of
nylon is
up to 25%. Are you confusing "working elongation" with "destructive
deformation"?
Or perhaps you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene.

Are you really claiming the nylon 3-strand is destroyed when its stretched
over 4%?
And you expect anyone to believe that you've ever been on a boat?



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, go READ it again, this time let your wife explain it to you.

what did you say your degree was in again?


From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:53 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for
another refill
of meds.

The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for
anyone with a
4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%.
The
chart
shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The
terms
"destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned.

There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of
tensile
strength,
nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which
can
be
considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary
rode and
replacing it after a major blow.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your
own
cites?

4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you*
don't
know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is
in?
we
would like to hear you say it again.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says
at
15%
of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers.
But
what
would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety
factor,
but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the
range
of
30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that
led
me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250'
of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost
non-existent)
extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough
nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05.. .

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was
anchored
out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On
the
other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because
I
didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg
Bruce,
and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak
of
the
blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain,
use
a
chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out
a
few
more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if
there's
much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows
from
a
beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to
experiment
with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On
the
ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary
has
1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots.
If
your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain
boats.
He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying
something
in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make
sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue

no, I am sick and tired of attempting communication with a blithering idiot.
no effort on my part will ever help you understand even the most simple of
concepts, for for you to accept understanding with another's help clearly shows
-- to you -- that you didn't understand even the simplest of concepts by
yourself.

you are unteachable, jeffies. you probably STILL don't realize that red stop
lights are higher than green lights, and for sure when you do realize that
elemental fact you will have no idea why.

tie up with a clothesline, jeffies.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/11/2004 8:36 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

In other words, you can't figure out the difference between nylon and
polypropylene.
Its a good thing you never go sailing.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, stay tied to the dock. again. you are lost to this universe.
still.
this subject is way beyond you. as always.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 9:45 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

I was right, you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene.
Are you
really claiming nylon fails after stretching 4%? Why do you think NE
Ropes
says
nylon 3-strand has "high elongation"?

Here's the link again. Nylon 3-strand: 15% working elongation at 15%
tensile

strength. (OK, maybe 14%)
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, go read the damned thing. then read it again, and again and
again.
then if you STILL don't understand what it says, go look at plaited rope
vs
elongation, and THEN look at springy mountain climbing rope.

4 frickin' %, jeffies. get your wife to explain it to you.



From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:17 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Read what, jaxie? The chart is very clear that the "working elongation"
of
nylon is
up to 25%. Are you confusing "working elongation" with "destructive
deformation"?
Or perhaps you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene.

Are you really claiming the nylon 3-strand is destroyed when its
stretched
over 4%?
And you expect anyone to believe that you've ever been on a boat?



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, go READ it again, this time let your wife explain it to you.

what did you say your degree was in again?


From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:53 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for
another refill
of meds.

The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least
for
anyone with a
4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%.
The
chart
shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand.
The
terms
"destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned.

There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of
tensile
strength,
nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which
can
be
considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a
primary
rode and
replacing it after a major blow.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read
your
own
cites?

4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course,
*you*
don't
know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is
in?
we
would like to hear you say it again.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says
at
15%
of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers.
But
what
would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety
factor,
but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the
range
of
30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues
that
led
me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to
250'
of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost
non-existent)
extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is
enough
nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05. ..

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was
anchored
out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut.
On
the
other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both
because
I
didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg
Bruce,
and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak
of
the
blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain,
use
a
chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer
out
a
few
more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if
there's
much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows
from
a
beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to
experiment
with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On
the
ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the
cantenary
has
1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots.
If
your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain
boats.
He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying
something
in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to
make
sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue

So you're still insisting the 3-strand nylon is destroyed by stretching 4%? Why do
you suppose NE Ropes describes it as having "high elongation" and has a chart showing
"working elongation" of over 20%?

Don't be such a coward jaxie. Be a man and just admit you made a mistake. Guess
that's too much of a stretch for you.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
no, I am sick and tired of attempting communication with a blithering idiot.
no effort on my part will ever help you understand even the most simple of
concepts, for for you to accept understanding with another's help clearly shows
-- to you -- that you didn't understand even the simplest of concepts by
yourself.

you are unteachable, jeffies. you probably STILL don't realize that red stop
lights are higher than green lights, and for sure when you do realize that
elemental fact you will have no idea why.

tie up with a clothesline, jeffies.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/11/2004 8:36 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

In other words, you can't figure out the difference between nylon and
polypropylene.
Its a good thing you never go sailing.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, stay tied to the dock. again. you are lost to this universe.
still.
this subject is way beyond you. as always.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 9:45 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

I was right, you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene.
Are you
really claiming nylon fails after stretching 4%? Why do you think NE
Ropes
says
nylon 3-strand has "high elongation"?

Here's the link again. Nylon 3-strand: 15% working elongation at 15%
tensile

strength. (OK, maybe 14%)
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, go read the damned thing. then read it again, and again and
again.
then if you STILL don't understand what it says, go look at plaited rope
vs
elongation, and THEN look at springy mountain climbing rope.

4 frickin' %, jeffies. get your wife to explain it to you.



From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:17 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Read what, jaxie? The chart is very clear that the "working elongation"
of
nylon is
up to 25%. Are you confusing "working elongation" with "destructive
deformation"?
Or perhaps you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene.

Are you really claiming the nylon 3-strand is destroyed when its
stretched
over 4%?
And you expect anyone to believe that you've ever been on a boat?



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, go READ it again, this time let your wife explain it to you.

what did you say your degree was in again?


From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:53 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for
another refill
of meds.

The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least
for
anyone with a
4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%.
The
chart
shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand.
The
terms
"destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned.

There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of
tensile
strength,
nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which
can
be
considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a
primary
rode and
replacing it after a major blow.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read
your
own
cites?

4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course,
*you*
don't
know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is
in?
we
would like to hear you say it again.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says
at
15%
of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers.
But
what
would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety
factor,
but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the
range
of
30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues
that
led
me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to
250'
of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost
non-existent)
extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is
enough
nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05 ...

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was
anchored
out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut.
On
the
other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both
because
I
didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg
Bruce,
and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak
of
the
blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain,
use
a
chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer
out
a
few
more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if
there's
much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows
from
a
beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to
experiment
with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On
the
ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the
cantenary
has
1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots.
If
your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain
boats.
He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying
something
in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to
make
sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue

jeffies, you are unteachable.

anchor with clothesline, if you wish.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/11/2004 8:54 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

So you're still insisting the 3-strand nylon is destroyed by stretching 4%?
Why do
you suppose NE Ropes describes it as having "high elongation" and has a chart
showing
"working elongation" of over 20%?

Don't be such a coward jaxie. Be a man and just admit you made a mistake.
Guess
that's too much of a stretch for you.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
no, I am sick and tired of attempting communication with a blithering
idiot.
no effort on my part will ever help you understand even the most simple of
concepts, for for you to accept understanding with another's help clearly
shows
-- to you -- that you didn't understand even the simplest of concepts by
yourself.

you are unteachable, jeffies. you probably STILL don't realize that red
stop
lights are higher than green lights, and for sure when you do realize that
elemental fact you will have no idea why.

tie up with a clothesline, jeffies.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/11/2004 8:36 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

In other words, you can't figure out the difference between nylon and
polypropylene.
Its a good thing you never go sailing.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, stay tied to the dock. again. you are lost to this universe.
still.
this subject is way beyond you. as always.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 9:45 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

I was right, you don't know the difference between nylon and
polypropylene.
Are you
really claiming nylon fails after stretching 4%? Why do you think NE
Ropes
says
nylon 3-strand has "high elongation"?

Here's the link again. Nylon 3-strand: 15% working elongation at 15%
tensile

strength. (OK, maybe 14%)
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, go read the damned thing. then read it again, and again and
again.
then if you STILL don't understand what it says, go look at plaited
rope
vs
elongation, and THEN look at springy mountain climbing rope.

4 frickin' %, jeffies. get your wife to explain it to you.



From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:17 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Read what, jaxie? The chart is very clear that the "working
elongation"
of
nylon is
up to 25%. Are you confusing "working elongation" with "destructive
deformation"?
Or perhaps you don't know the difference between nylon and
polypropylene.

Are you really claiming the nylon 3-strand is destroyed when its
stretched
over 4%?
And you expect anyone to believe that you've ever been on a boat?



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, go READ it again, this time let your wife explain it to you.

what did you say your degree was in again?


From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:53 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time
for
another refill
of meds.

The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least
for
anyone with a
4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below
4%.
The
chart
shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand.
The
terms
"destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned.

There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of
tensile
strength,
nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber,
which
can
be
considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a
primary
rode and
replacing it after a major blow.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read
your
own
cites?

4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course,
*you*
don't
know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree
is
in?
we
would like to hear you say it again.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes
says
at
15%
of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers.
But
what
would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety
factor,
but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the
range
of
30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues
that
led
me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
news:20041109193940.07586.00000403@m b-m01.aol.com...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to
250'
of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost
non-existent)
extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is
enough
nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read0 5...

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was
anchored
out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was
bar-taut.
On
the
other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both
because
I
didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg
Bruce,
and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the
peak
of
the
blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with
all-chain,
use
a
chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer
out
a
few
more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but
if
there's
much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows
from
a
beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to
experiment
with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113.
On
the
ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the
cantenary
has
1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40
knots.
If
your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain
boats.
He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying
something
in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to
make
sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue

Hi all

Thanks for all your contributions. In the UK there is very little
information that I have found on using either of these methods apart
from the occasional mention of using short snubbers to reduce shock
loading when using chain and the lowering of weights etc. to give a
more horizontal lead and to provide some damping when using rope and
perhaps chain. Mixed chain and rope is probably used as much here as
in the US with appropriate chafe prevention. My own experience has
been generally with all chain with no problems but I have not
experienced anything like the weather that you get in the US. I am
planning on a circumnavigation and will have all chain for most use
since I think the benefits do outweigh the detractions but I
appreciate that in severe conditions the shock loading aspect and
pitching of the bow could be the decisive factor so would look to
other alternatives. I would have an equivalent length of chain/nylon
for secondary use and probably additional rodes.

The benefits of the buoy method seem to be - sufficient damping if the
buoy is large enough and lessening the pitching of the bow. As was
rightly pointed out this can only occur if the chain is not pulled bar
tight by the constant force from the wind.

The problems that I see with the rope and chafe protection is that it
has to be maintained and in severe conditions when a crew is likely to
be exhausted this may not be possible. Any method that needs less
maintainance is then more attractive which is why I was interested in
the buoy method. Apart from hearing of quotes in Hinz's books (I
haven't managed to persuade the library to get a book after two
attempts) I have only come across it mentioned in Hal Roth's 'After
50,000 Miles', an excellent book although quite old.

If anyone can scan any of the relevant information from Hinz's
'Complete book of Anchoring and Mooring' I would appreciate it. Apart
from fishing boats using this method there seems little other evidence
of its use.

Thank you again for all your comments.

Regards

Steve

Reemove defcv etc.


(Steve Smith) wrote in message . com...
Hi all

Having looked at Chapman's 'Piloting, Seamanship and Small Boat
Handling' (now available in your local library for UK readers), I was
a bit surprised to see recommended that a mooring-type buoy be used
rather than attaching some other flotation to the intact anchor chain
(one more link to go wrong). I think Hinz discusses this in his books
but I haven't managed to get hold of any in the UK.

I know this method of anchoring is for extreme conditions but has
anyone any experience with it or the alternative method of using
weights slid down the rode. I would guess there is a better argument
for avoiding shock loading than there is for anchor dragging and that
the buoy method is better at doing this.
I am assuming all chain here due to chafe resistance.

Regards

Steve

Remove defcv if etc.

The problems that I see with the rope and chafe protection is that it
has to be maintained and in severe conditions when a crew is likely to
be exhausted this may not be possible.

I have said it before and will say it again and again and again until people
listen. chafe protection on nylon is NOT wrapping a t-shirt around the line
and hoping for the best.

Proper chafe protection on nylon is at least one, better yet two, "safety" line
rolling hitching onto the nylon rode. the first safety line takes 100% of the
load until and unless it breaks and then the second safety line takes 100% of
the load until and unless it breaks at which time the nylon rode takes over.

IN ADThe problems that I see with the rope and chafe protection is that it
has to be maintained and in severe conditions when a crew is likely to
be exhausted this may not be possible.

IN ADDITION, *proper* safety lines are wormed (if three strand, not necessary
with braided line, which is better because is stretchs less back and forth
going through the chocks), parceled and served with Spectra fishing line. This
makes for one serious hard spot in the safety line where it goes through the
chock/edge/whatever. If you want belts-and-suspenders, you can also use
firehose over the hard spot, and even plastic tubing over the firehose and even
a t-shirt over the tubing if you want.

worming/parceling/serving has worked and worked well for centuries. It felt
out of favor of recreational sailors of late because it requires a sailor to
spend some time properly preparing a safety line ahead of time and most
recreational sailors are rather lazy, preferring early sundowners instead.

an all chain rode *will* pull your anchor loose (or break of the deck mount) in
a blow. Dragging anchor on all chain in a blow is NOT an act of god, but
rather an act of negligence on the part of the sailor.

On 12 Nov 2004 02:35:15 -0800, (Steve
Smith) wrote:

Hi all

Thanks for all your contributions. In the UK there is very little
information that I have found on using either of these methods apart
from the occasional mention of using short snubbers to reduce shock
loading when using chain and the lowering of weights etc. to give a
more horizontal lead and to provide some damping when using rope and
perhaps chain. Mixed chain and rope is probably used as much here as
in the US with appropriate chafe prevention. My own experience has
been generally with all chain with no problems but I have not
experienced anything like the weather that you get in the US. I am
planning on a circumnavigation and will have all chain for most use
since I think the benefits do outweigh the detractions but I
appreciate that in severe conditions the shock loading aspect and
pitching of the bow could be the decisive factor so would look to
other alternatives. I would have an equivalent length of chain/nylon
for secondary use and probably additional rodes.

The benefits of the buoy method seem to be - sufficient damping if the
buoy is large enough and lessening the pitching of the bow. As was
rightly pointed out this can only occur if the chain is not pulled bar
tight by the constant force from the wind.

The problems that I see with the rope and chafe protection is that it
has to be maintained and in severe conditions when a crew is likely to
be exhausted this may not be possible. Any method that needs less
maintainance is then more attractive which is why I was interested in
the buoy method. Apart from hearing of quotes in Hinz's books (I
haven't managed to persuade the library to get a book after two
attempts) I have only come across it mentioned in Hal Roth's 'After
50,000 Miles', an excellent book although quite old.

If anyone can scan any of the relevant information from Hinz's
'Complete book of Anchoring and Mooring' I would appreciate it. Apart
from fishing boats using this method there seems little other evidence
of its use.

In addition to Hinz, a good reference is van Doorn-- 'Oceanography and
Seamanship"


Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

"WooWooism lives" Anon grafitto on the base of the Cuttyhunk breakwater light

www.amazon.com for both Earl Hinz, The Complete Book of Anchoring and
Mooring, and William G. van Dorn, Oceanography and Seamanship. I think
they'll ship them to you from the U.S. - for a fee.

I don't know if you might get them a little cheaper at www.nauticalmind.com
(Toronto, Ontario, Canada). Another reputable nautical bookstore is
www.armchairsailorseattle.com, and there are many others.

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

====

"Steve Smith" wrote in message
m...
Thanks for all your contributions. In the UK... Hinz's books (I
haven't managed to persuade the library to get a book after two
attempts) ...