Not always

JAXAshby wrote:
They use their hats when a blow is expected. They put them on and leave.
Simple. If you don't understand that metaphor, think "searoom"


From: Wayne.B
Date: 11/10/2004 9:31 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

On 10 Nov 2004 00:26:11 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

HEAVY kellets (25# each, and often two or three on a rode) are sometimes

used

to overcome the inherent dangers of an all chain rode, at least up to 35+

knots

of wind, then chain and nylon is used.

===================================

How many kellets, and how much nylon rode, do they use on a
supertanker? Or the QE2?

The downside of
course is you really need to maintain a nylon rode under such
conditions...rigging chaff protection or letting out small increments to
minimize chaff.

nylon rode in heavy weather conditions should have "safety" lines attached to
take the chafe, sometime two safety lines. A safety line takes 100% of the
chafe load until it gives up (if it should give up) at which point the second
safety line takes 100% of the chafe load, etc. safety lines are rolling
hitched onto the nylon (or chain ****IF**** the safety line is
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooooooooong enough to give shock attenuation to the chain, i.e.
safety line lengths of 50 to 100 feet), the first safety line tight, with the
second line loose as a back up in case the first safety line gives up, the
anchor rode loose upline from the safety line(s).

A proper safety line will be wormed (if twisted line), parceled and served with
Spectra line (Spectra fishing line is a good source) to form a serious hard
spot where the safety line goes through the chock.

Steve,

I have read much of but not the entire thread (life to live...), but the
other putative benefit of a buoy in the rode is that the bow of the boat
won't be subjected to such violent forces as it pitches up and down in
waves. The rode as attached to the boat is closer to horizontal, so doesn't
jerk the boat down so hard on every rising wave as when the rode as attached
to the boat is more vertical.

So I've read!!

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

====

"Steve Smith" wrote in message
om...
Hi all

... surprised to see recommended that a mooring-type buoy be used
rather than attaching some other flotation to the intact anchor chain
(one more link to go wrong).

Thanks, Charles, for repeating what I stated in this thread from my very first
post.

I have read much of but not the entire thread (life to live...), but the
other putative benefit of a buoy in the rode is that the bow of the boat
won't be subjected to such violent forces as it pitches up and down in
waves. The rode as attached to the boat is closer to horizontal, so doesn't
jerk the boat down so hard on every rising wave as when the rode as attached
to the boat is more vertical.

So I've read!!

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

====

"Steve Smith" wrote in message
. com...
Hi all

... surprised to see recommended that a mooring-type buoy be used
rather than attaching some other flotation to the intact anchor chain
(one more link to go wrong).

Hi all

Thanks for all your contributions. In the UK there is very little
information that I have found on using either of these methods apart
from the occasional mention of using short snubbers to reduce shock
loading when using chain and the lowering of weights etc. to give a
more horizontal lead and to provide some damping when using rope and
perhaps chain. Mixed chain and rope is probably used as much here as
in the US with appropriate chafe prevention. My own experience has
been generally with all chain with no problems but I have not
experienced anything like the weather that you get in the US. I am
planning on a circumnavigation and will have all chain for most use
since I think the benefits do outweigh the detractions but I
appreciate that in severe conditions the shock loading aspect and
pitching of the bow could be the decisive factor so would look to
other alternatives. I would have an equivalent length of chain/nylon
for secondary use and probably additional rodes.

The benefits of the buoy method seem to be - sufficient damping if the
buoy is large enough and lessening the pitching of the bow. As was
rightly pointed out this can only occur if the chain is not pulled bar
tight by the constant force from the wind.

The problems that I see with the rope and chafe protection is that it
has to be maintained and in severe conditions when a crew is likely to
be exhausted this may not be possible. Any method that needs less
maintainance is then more attractive which is why I was interested in
the buoy method. Apart from hearing of quotes in Hinz's books (I
haven't managed to persuade the library to get a book after two
attempts) I have only come across it mentioned in Hal Roth's 'After
50,000 Miles', an excellent book although quite old.

If anyone can scan any of the relevant information from Hinz's
'Complete book of Anchoring and Mooring' I would appreciate it. Apart
from fishing boats using this method there seems little other evidence
of its use.

Thank you again for all your comments.

Regards

Steve

Reemove defcv etc.


(Steve Smith) wrote in message . com...
Hi all

Having looked at Chapman's 'Piloting, Seamanship and Small Boat
Handling' (now available in your local library for UK readers), I was
a bit surprised to see recommended that a mooring-type buoy be used
rather than attaching some other flotation to the intact anchor chain
(one more link to go wrong). I think Hinz discusses this in his books
but I haven't managed to get hold of any in the UK.

I know this method of anchoring is for extreme conditions but has
anyone any experience with it or the alternative method of using
weights slid down the rode. I would guess there is a better argument
for avoiding shock loading than there is for anchor dragging and that
the buoy method is better at doing this.
I am assuming all chain here due to chafe resistance.

Regards

Steve

Remove defcv if etc.

The problems that I see with the rope and chafe protection is that it
has to be maintained and in severe conditions when a crew is likely to
be exhausted this may not be possible.

I have said it before and will say it again and again and again until people
listen. chafe protection on nylon is NOT wrapping a t-shirt around the line
and hoping for the best.

Proper chafe protection on nylon is at least one, better yet two, "safety" line
rolling hitching onto the nylon rode. the first safety line takes 100% of the
load until and unless it breaks and then the second safety line takes 100% of
the load until and unless it breaks at which time the nylon rode takes over.

IN ADThe problems that I see with the rope and chafe protection is that it
has to be maintained and in severe conditions when a crew is likely to
be exhausted this may not be possible.

IN ADDITION, *proper* safety lines are wormed (if three strand, not necessary
with braided line, which is better because is stretchs less back and forth
going through the chocks), parceled and served with Spectra fishing line. This
makes for one serious hard spot in the safety line where it goes through the
chock/edge/whatever. If you want belts-and-suspenders, you can also use
firehose over the hard spot, and even plastic tubing over the firehose and even
a t-shirt over the tubing if you want.

worming/parceling/serving has worked and worked well for centuries. It felt
out of favor of recreational sailors of late because it requires a sailor to
spend some time properly preparing a safety line ahead of time and most
recreational sailors are rather lazy, preferring early sundowners instead.

an all chain rode *will* pull your anchor loose (or break of the deck mount) in
a blow. Dragging anchor on all chain in a blow is NOT an act of god, but
rather an act of negligence on the part of the sailor.

On 12 Nov 2004 02:35:15 -0800, (Steve
Smith) wrote:

Hi all

Thanks for all your contributions. In the UK there is very little
information that I have found on using either of these methods apart
from the occasional mention of using short snubbers to reduce shock
loading when using chain and the lowering of weights etc. to give a
more horizontal lead and to provide some damping when using rope and
perhaps chain. Mixed chain and rope is probably used as much here as
in the US with appropriate chafe prevention. My own experience has
been generally with all chain with no problems but I have not
experienced anything like the weather that you get in the US. I am
planning on a circumnavigation and will have all chain for most use
since I think the benefits do outweigh the detractions but I
appreciate that in severe conditions the shock loading aspect and
pitching of the bow could be the decisive factor so would look to
other alternatives. I would have an equivalent length of chain/nylon
for secondary use and probably additional rodes.

The benefits of the buoy method seem to be - sufficient damping if the
buoy is large enough and lessening the pitching of the bow. As was
rightly pointed out this can only occur if the chain is not pulled bar
tight by the constant force from the wind.

The problems that I see with the rope and chafe protection is that it
has to be maintained and in severe conditions when a crew is likely to
be exhausted this may not be possible. Any method that needs less
maintainance is then more attractive which is why I was interested in
the buoy method. Apart from hearing of quotes in Hinz's books (I
haven't managed to persuade the library to get a book after two
attempts) I have only come across it mentioned in Hal Roth's 'After
50,000 Miles', an excellent book although quite old.

If anyone can scan any of the relevant information from Hinz's
'Complete book of Anchoring and Mooring' I would appreciate it. Apart
from fishing boats using this method there seems little other evidence
of its use.

In addition to Hinz, a good reference is van Doorn-- 'Oceanography and
Seamanship"


Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

"WooWooism lives" Anon grafitto on the base of the Cuttyhunk breakwater light

www.amazon.com for both Earl Hinz, The Complete Book of Anchoring and
Mooring, and William G. van Dorn, Oceanography and Seamanship. I think
they'll ship them to you from the U.S. - for a fee.

I don't know if you might get them a little cheaper at www.nauticalmind.com
(Toronto, Ontario, Canada). Another reputable nautical bookstore is
www.armchairsailorseattle.com, and there are many others.

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

====

"Steve Smith" wrote in message
m...
Thanks for all your contributions. In the UK... Hinz's books (I
haven't managed to persuade the library to get a book after two
attempts) ...