jeffies, knock it off. you cain't read nuthin's no how.

4%, squathead. 4 frickin %, on twisted nylon before deformation (squathead, ask
your wife what that means).

Do not -- I repeat, do frickin' NOT!!! -- post here again without your wife's
express approval!


From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15%
of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what
would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor, but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of
30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent)
extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05...

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored
out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the
other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I
didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce,
and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the
blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a
chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few
more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's
much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a
beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment
with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue

jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your own
cites?

4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you* don't
know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in? we
would like to hear you say it again.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15%
of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what
would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor,
but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of
30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led
me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent)
extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05...

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored
out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the
other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I
didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce,
and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the
blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a
chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few
more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's
much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a
beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment
with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the
ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue

You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for another refill
of meds.

The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for anyone with a
4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%. The chart
shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The terms
"destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned.

There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of tensile strength,
nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which can be
considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary rode and
replacing it after a major blow.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your own
cites?

4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you* don't
know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in? we
would like to hear you say it again.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15%
of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what
would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor,
but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of
30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led
me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent)
extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05...

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored
out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the
other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I
didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce,
and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the
blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a
chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few
more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's
much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a
beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment
with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the
ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue

On 10 Nov 2004 00:26:11 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:
HEAVY kellets (25# each, and often two or three on a rode) are sometimes used
to overcome the inherent dangers of an all chain rode, at least up to 35+ knots
of wind, then chain and nylon is used.

===================================

How many kellets, and how much nylon rode, do they use on a
supertanker? Or the QE2?

I've been reading this in passing and just tried to figure out what had
been talked about in the past. What's this about 30-60' snubbers? Huh?
I'd say that my snubber and virtually every snubber that I've ever seen
is in the 10-15' range. Who's got a 30-60' snubber and why would anyone
ever suggest that you need one?

-- Geoff

"Jeff Morris" wrote in
:

You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for
another refill of meds.

The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least
for anyone with a 4th grade education. They don't bother to mention
elongation below 4%. The chart shows "working elongation" of over 20%
for filament nylon 3-strand. The terms "destructive" and
"deformation" are never mentioned.

There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of
tensile strength, nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem
for a snubber, which can be considered sacrificial. This makes a good
case for downgrading a primary rode and replacing it after a major
blow.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read
your own cites?

4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course,
*you* don't know what destructive elongation is. What did you say
your degree is in? we would like to hear you say it again.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says
at 15% of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers.
But what would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety
factor,
but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the
range of 30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues
that led
me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to
250' of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost
non-existent) extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is
enough nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05...

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was
anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was
bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more
chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the
weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd
anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain,
use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and
veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring
you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a
chain to save your bows from a beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to
experiment with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On
the
ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the
cantenary has 1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots.
If your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain
boats. He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying
something in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to
make sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
....
How many kellets, and how much nylon rode, do they use on a
supertanker? Or the QE2?
They don't turn their engines off in a blow either.

Paul

A 10 foot snubber is near useless for real shock absorbing. If you allow for 25%
elongation before deformation, then you have 2.5 feet of extension. This may be
enough absorb some minor shock, but does very little in a serious situation. I'm
thinking of the Cabo San Lucas storm where boat were caught in major waves off he
beach and some boats had deck gear pulled out by all chain rodes.

When I use all chain I usually have about 15 of snubber deployed, but I never had to
worry about 50+ knots with waves. If I found myself in that situation I would deploy
a much longer snubber. Now, I use a mixed chain/nylon rode so I always have a
substantial length of nylon. Having a catamaran, I also rig a bridle, so there's a
lot of nylon out.

Hinz is a bit vague on the appropriate length for "riding stopper" as he calls it.
However, one can guess from his discussion of catenaries that a fair amount of
extension should be provided. Remember in a high wind much of the available extension
is already used my he static force of the wind. You still need several feet to hand a
surge.h



"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
7...
I've been reading this in passing and just tried to figure out what had
been talked about in the past. What's this about 30-60' snubbers? Huh?
I'd say that my snubber and virtually every snubber that I've ever seen
is in the 10-15' range. Who's got a 30-60' snubber and why would anyone
ever suggest that you need one?

-- Geoff

"Jeff Morris" wrote in
:

You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for
another refill of meds.

The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least
for anyone with a 4th grade education. They don't bother to mention
elongation below 4%. The chart shows "working elongation" of over 20%
for filament nylon 3-strand. The terms "destructive" and
"deformation" are never mentioned.

There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of
tensile strength, nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem
for a snubber, which can be considered sacrificial. This makes a good
case for downgrading a primary rode and replacing it after a major
blow.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read
your own cites?

4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course,
*you* don't know what destructive elongation is. What did you say
your degree is in? we would like to hear you say it again.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says
at 15% of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers.
But what would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety
factor,
but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the
range of 30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues
that led
me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to
250' of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost
non-existent) extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is
enough nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05...

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was
anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was
bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more
chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the
weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd
anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain,
use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and
veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring
you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a
chain to save your bows from a beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to
experiment with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On
the
ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the
cantenary has 1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots.
If your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain
boats. He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying
something in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to
make sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue

jeffies, go READ it again, this time let your wife explain it to you.

what did you say your degree was in again?


From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:53 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for
another refill
of meds.

The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for
anyone with a
4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%. The
chart
shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The
terms
"destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned.

There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of tensile
strength,
nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which can
be
considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary
rode and
replacing it after a major blow.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your own
cites?

4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you*
don't
know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in?
we
would like to hear you say it again.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at
15%
of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But
what
would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor,
but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range
of
30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led
me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost
non-existent)
extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough
nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05...

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored
out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the
other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I
didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce,
and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of
the
blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a
chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a
few
more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if
there's
much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a
beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment
with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the
ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has
1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If
your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats.
He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something
in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make
sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue

Geoff, you have witnessed bad anchoring practise, that is all. Too short
snubbers break in a blow, or -- if they are oversized -- they act like all
chain and pull the anchor loose (or the deck fittings).

I've been reading this in passing and just tried to figure out what had
been talked about in the past. What's this about 30-60' snubbers? Huh?
I'd say that my snubber and virtually every snubber that I've ever seen
is in the 10-15' range. Who's got a 30-60' snubber and why would anyone
ever suggest that you need one?

-- Geoff

"Jeff Morris" wrote in
:

You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for
another refill of meds.

The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least
for anyone with a 4th grade education. They don't bother to mention
elongation below 4%. The chart shows "working elongation" of over 20%
for filament nylon 3-strand. The terms "destructive" and
"deformation" are never mentioned.

There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of
tensile strength, nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem
for a snubber, which can be considered sacrificial. This makes a good
case for downgrading a primary rode and replacing it after a major
blow.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read
your own cites?

4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course,
*you* don't know what destructive elongation is. What did you say
your degree is in? we would like to hear you say it again.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says
at 15% of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers.
But what would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety
factor,
but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the
range of 30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues
that led
me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to
250' of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost
non-existent) extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is
enough nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05...

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was
anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was
bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more
chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the
weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd
anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain,
use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and
veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring
you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a
chain to save your bows from a beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to
experiment with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On
the
ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the
cantenary has 1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots.
If your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain
boats. He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying
something in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to
make sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue

you need, usually, more than 10 feet of stretch. That is well more than 150
feet of nylon. In a blow.

In lite winds, you don't even need a cinder block for an anchor.

A 10 foot snubber is near useless for real shock absorbing. If you allow for
25%
elongation before deformation, then you have 2.5 feet of extension. This may
be
enough absorb some minor shock, but does very little in a serious situation.
I'm
thinking of the Cabo San Lucas storm where boat were caught in major waves
off he
beach and some boats had deck gear pulled out by all chain rodes.

When I use all chain I usually have about 15 of snubber deployed, but I never
had to
worry about 50+ knots with waves. If I found myself in that situation I
would deploy
a much longer snubber. Now, I use a mixed chain/nylon rode so I always have
a
substantial length of nylon. Having a catamaran, I also rig a bridle, so
there's a
lot of nylon out.

Hinz is a bit vague on the appropriate length for "riding stopper" as he
calls it.
However, one can guess from his discussion of catenaries that a fair amount
of
extension should be provided. Remember in a high wind much of the available
extension
is already used my he static force of the wind. You still need several feet
to hand a
surge.h



"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
. 17...
I've been reading this in passing and just tried to figure out what had
been talked about in the past. What's this about 30-60' snubbers? Huh?
I'd say that my snubber and virtually every snubber that I've ever seen
is in the 10-15' range. Who's got a 30-60' snubber and why would anyone
ever suggest that you need one?

-- Geoff

"Jeff Morris" wrote in
:

You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for
another refill of meds.

The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least
for anyone with a 4th grade education. They don't bother to mention
elongation below 4%. The chart shows "working elongation" of over 20%
for filament nylon 3-strand. The terms "destructive" and
"deformation" are never mentioned.

There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of
tensile strength, nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem
for a snubber, which can be considered sacrificial. This makes a good
case for downgrading a primary rode and replacing it after a major
blow.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read
your own cites?

4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course,
*you* don't know what destructive elongation is. What did you say
your degree is in? we would like to hear you say it again.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says
at 15% of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers.
But what would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety
factor,
but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the
range of 30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues
that led
me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to
250' of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost
non-existent) extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is
enough nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05...

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was
anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was
bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more
chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the
weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd
anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain,
use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and
veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring
you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a
chain to save your bows from a beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to
experiment with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On
the
ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the
cantenary has 1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots.
If your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain
boats. He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying
something in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to
make sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue