Hinz is a bit vague on the appropriate length for "riding stopper" as he
calls it.

jeffies, I am not sure why you feel the need to quote Hinz on this issue. This
is VERY simple physics.

They use their hats when a blow is expected. They put them on and leave.
Simple. If you don't understand that metaphor, think "searoom"

From: Wayne.B
Date: 11/10/2004 9:31 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

On 10 Nov 2004 00:26:11 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:
HEAVY kellets (25# each, and often two or three on a rode) are sometimes
used
to overcome the inherent dangers of an all chain rode, at least up to 35+
knots
of wind, then chain and nylon is used.

===================================

How many kellets, and how much nylon rode, do they use on a
supertanker? Or the QE2?

Read what, jaxie? The chart is very clear that the "working elongation" of nylon is
up to 25%. Are you confusing "working elongation" with "destructive deformation"?
Or perhaps you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene.

Are you really claiming the nylon 3-strand is destroyed when its stretched over 4%?
And you expect anyone to believe that you've ever been on a boat?



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, go READ it again, this time let your wife explain it to you.

what did you say your degree was in again?


From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:53 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for
another refill
of meds.

The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for
anyone with a
4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%. The
chart
shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The
terms
"destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned.

There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of tensile
strength,
nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which can
be
considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary
rode and
replacing it after a major blow.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your own
cites?

4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you*
don't
know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in?
we
would like to hear you say it again.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at
15%
of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But
what
would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor,
but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range
of
30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led
me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost
non-existent)
extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough
nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05...

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored
out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the
other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I
didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce,
and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of
the
blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a
chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a
few
more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if
there's
much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a
beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment
with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the
ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has
1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If
your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats.
He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something
in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make
sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue

jeffies, go read the damned thing. then read it again, and again and again.
then if you STILL don't understand what it says, go look at plaited rope vs
elongation, and THEN look at springy mountain climbing rope.

4 frickin' %, jeffies. get your wife to explain it to you.



From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:17 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Read what, jaxie? The chart is very clear that the "working elongation" of
nylon is
up to 25%. Are you confusing "working elongation" with "destructive
deformation"?
Or perhaps you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene.

Are you really claiming the nylon 3-strand is destroyed when its stretched
over 4%?
And you expect anyone to believe that you've ever been on a boat?



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, go READ it again, this time let your wife explain it to you.

what did you say your degree was in again?


From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:53 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for
another refill
of meds.

The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for
anyone with a
4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%.
The
chart
shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The
terms
"destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned.

There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of
tensile
strength,
nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which can
be
considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary
rode and
replacing it after a major blow.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your
own
cites?

4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you*
don't
know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in?
we
would like to hear you say it again.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at
15%
of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But
what
would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety
factor,
but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range
of
30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that
led
me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost
non-existent)
extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough
nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05...

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored
out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On
the
other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I
didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce,
and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of
the
blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use
a
chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a
few
more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if
there's
much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from
a
beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment
with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the
ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary
has
1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If
your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats.
He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying
something
in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make
sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue

Not always

JAXAshby wrote:
They use their hats when a blow is expected. They put them on and leave.
Simple. If you don't understand that metaphor, think "searoom"


From: Wayne.B
Date: 11/10/2004 9:31 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

On 10 Nov 2004 00:26:11 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

HEAVY kellets (25# each, and often two or three on a rode) are sometimes

used

to overcome the inherent dangers of an all chain rode, at least up to 35+

knots

of wind, then chain and nylon is used.

===================================

How many kellets, and how much nylon rode, do they use on a
supertanker? Or the QE2?

no, of course not. Those with 4x layer aluminum foil helmets are having sex
with small furry animals.

From: otnmbrd
Date: 11/10/2004 9:32 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: .net

Not always

JAXAshby wrote:
They use their hats when a blow is expected. They put them on and leave.
Simple. If you don't understand that metaphor, think "searoom"


From: Wayne.B
Date: 11/10/2004 9:31 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

On 10 Nov 2004 00:26:11 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

HEAVY kellets (25# each, and often two or three on a rode) are sometimes

used

to overcome the inherent dangers of an all chain rode, at least up to 35+

knots

of wind, then chain and nylon is used.

===================================

How many kellets, and how much nylon rode, do they use on a
supertanker? Or the QE2?

I was right, you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene. Are you
really claiming nylon fails after stretching 4%? Why do you think NE Ropes says
nylon 3-strand has "high elongation"?

Here's the link again. Nylon 3-strand: 15% working elongation at 15% tensile
strength. (OK, maybe 14%)
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, go read the damned thing. then read it again, and again and again.
then if you STILL don't understand what it says, go look at plaited rope vs
elongation, and THEN look at springy mountain climbing rope.

4 frickin' %, jeffies. get your wife to explain it to you.



From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:17 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Read what, jaxie? The chart is very clear that the "working elongation" of
nylon is
up to 25%. Are you confusing "working elongation" with "destructive
deformation"?
Or perhaps you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene.

Are you really claiming the nylon 3-strand is destroyed when its stretched
over 4%?
And you expect anyone to believe that you've ever been on a boat?



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, go READ it again, this time let your wife explain it to you.

what did you say your degree was in again?


From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:53 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for
another refill
of meds.

The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for
anyone with a
4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%.
The
chart
shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The
terms
"destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned.

There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of
tensile
strength,
nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which can
be
considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary
rode and
replacing it after a major blow.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your
own
cites?

4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you*
don't
know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in?
we
would like to hear you say it again.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at
15%
of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But
what
would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety
factor,
but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range
of
30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that
led
me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost
non-existent)
extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough
nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05.. .

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored
out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On
the
other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I
didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce,
and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of
the
blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use
a
chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a
few
more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if
there's
much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from
a
beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment
with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the
ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary
has
1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If
your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats.
He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying
something
in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make
sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue

JAXAshby wrote:
no, of course not. Those with 4x layer aluminum foil helmets are having sex
with small furry animals.


From: otnmbrd
Date: 11/10/2004 9:32 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: .net

Not always

JAXAshby wrote:

They use their hats when a blow is expected. They put them on and leave.
Simple. If you don't understand that metaphor, think "searoom"

Typical response, considering your highly limited experience and knowledge.

otn

Steve,

I have read much of but not the entire thread (life to live...), but the
other putative benefit of a buoy in the rode is that the bow of the boat
won't be subjected to such violent forces as it pitches up and down in
waves. The rode as attached to the boat is closer to horizontal, so doesn't
jerk the boat down so hard on every rising wave as when the rode as attached
to the boat is more vertical.

So I've read!!

====

Charles T. Low
www.boatdocking.com

====

"Steve Smith" wrote in message
om...
Hi all

... surprised to see recommended that a mooring-type buoy be used
rather than attaching some other flotation to the intact anchor chain
(one more link to go wrong).

jeffies, stay tied to the dock. again. you are lost to this universe. still.
this subject is way beyond you. as always.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 9:45 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

I was right, you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene.
Are you
really claiming nylon fails after stretching 4%? Why do you think NE Ropes
says
nylon 3-strand has "high elongation"?

Here's the link again. Nylon 3-strand: 15% working elongation at 15% tensile

strength. (OK, maybe 14%)
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, go read the damned thing. then read it again, and again and
again.
then if you STILL don't understand what it says, go look at plaited rope vs
elongation, and THEN look at springy mountain climbing rope.

4 frickin' %, jeffies. get your wife to explain it to you.



From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:17 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Read what, jaxie? The chart is very clear that the "working elongation" of
nylon is
up to 25%. Are you confusing "working elongation" with "destructive
deformation"?
Or perhaps you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene.

Are you really claiming the nylon 3-strand is destroyed when its stretched
over 4%?
And you expect anyone to believe that you've ever been on a boat?



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, go READ it again, this time let your wife explain it to you.

what did you say your degree was in again?


From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/10/2004 8:53 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for
another refill
of meds.

The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for
anyone with a
4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%.
The
chart
shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The
terms
"destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned.

There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of
tensile
strength,
nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which
can
be
considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary
rode and
replacing it after a major blow.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your
own
cites?

4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you*
don't
know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is
in?
we
would like to hear you say it again.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says
at
15%
of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers.
But
what
would
they know?
http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf

One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety
factor,
but
for a
snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the
range
of
30 to 60
feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that
led
me
to stop
using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250'
of
nylon,
except under line breaking conditions.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost
non-existent)
extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough
nylon
to
allow for
5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch.



"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05. ..

"Amgine" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is
that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode.

Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was
anchored
out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On
the
other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because
I
didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg
Bruce,
and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak
of
the
blow.

To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain,
use
a
chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out
a
few
more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if
there's
much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows
from
a
beating.

I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to
experiment
with both. Who has used which?

Amgine
http://wiki.saewyc.net/

See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On
the
ABYC
hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary
has
1
foot of
"droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots.
If
your
boat is
smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher.

Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain
boats.
He
points out
that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying
something
in
high winds.
They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make
sleep
difficult.

Jim Donohue