"Cardinal_Bill" wrote

Yes. Go somewhere else with your ****ing opinion, you'll never change
anyone elses one way or the other anyhow. This newsgroup is about
BOATING. Personally I'm sick of all politicians right now.

Actually this newsgroup is about CRUISING and unfortunately cruisers are and
have always been at the mercy of politics. I, like you, regret that this
thread ever got started in a normally neutral group. I think that all of us
try to avoid conversations like this and as a group we do not often speak up
on political subjects but some times we just can't sit on the side lines.
Besides criminalizing travel to Cuba the current administration has
basically eliminated funding for the ICW. Without funding it will soon
become unusable . We must speak up for our rights and interest or we will
loose them to the more politically vocal activists.

--
Glenn Ashmore

Glenn Ashmore wrote:

Actually this newsgroup is about CRUISING and unfortunately cruisers are and
have always been at the mercy of politics. I, like you, regret that this
thread ever got started in a normally neutral group. I think that all of us
try to avoid conversations like this and as a group we do not often speak up
on political subjects but some times we just can't sit on the side lines.
Besides criminalizing travel to Cuba the current administration has
basically eliminated funding for the ICW. Without funding it will soon
become unusable . We must speak up for our rights and interest or we will
loose them to the more politically vocal activists.

Yes but... :-)

I've always thought someone pumping their political opinion (and the
ever popular "I'm an American and I'll carry my gun into any Damned
country I want to!" as if the laws of Mexico/Canada/someotherplace don't
count) into a newgroup to be the equivalent of spamming. All it ends up
doing is creating a series of "Does not", "Does to" messages. Then the
name calling starts. Besides, why does someone of
Australia/England/Upper Volta (yeah that country doesn't use that name
anymore) care about American politics/laws. I personally think the
Cuban situation stinks and I'm on the other side of the country from the
ICW.

The reason someone from australia cares about US politics/law is because
when i plan to go to your country in the near future (6/12 months)
to buy my next boat i may wish to come home via cuba or any other damm
country in the world and if that means sailing into a strange coast
without charts, Then they are putting my life at risk.
As i said before safety sake alone requires me to have charts of the area.
Do they just pretend that it it is a great void in the ocean or will it
become the cuban rectangle of mystery and wrecks. or will the charts
show go Nay further shall yea go or yea shall fall from tis world for
strange creatures here abide.
With dark age thinking come the dark ages again.
Does the final word come from my family when they SUE the US government
for the lose of my life and my income due to there negligence in
disallowing me to have navigation charts that would have told me that
there is a reef/rock/wreck in that straight that i head for for shelter.
Banning citizens from going to cuba Fine that's your peoples choice (you
folks voted them in) but banning me from carrying charts on my boat must
be on the same analogue as the romans banning Christianity.
Both will still be there long after the other is gone.
Shaun



I've always thought someone pumping their political opinion (and the
ever popular "I'm an American and I'll carry my gun into any Damned
country I want to!" as if the laws of Mexico/Canada/someotherplace don't
count) into a newgroup to be the equivalent of spamming. All it ends up
doing is creating a series of "Does not", "Does to" messages. Then the
name calling starts. Besides, why does someone of
Australia/England/Upper Volta (yeah that country doesn't use that name
anymore) care about American politics/laws. I personally think the
Cuban situation stinks and I'm on the other side of the country from the
ICW.

Well, I don't agree with the policy either, but if I were a Canadian or an
Australian who wanted to visit Cuba, I'd just avoid the US altogether. What
is it, 12 miles off the coast is the limit? Just avoid US waters and land
in Mexico or something and then to Cuba. Other than the Disney parks there
ain't a whole lot to see here anyway.

Let's face it, if, say, Botswana or wherever implemented some dumb ass rules
whereby they could confiscate any ship that went into their waters and then
went to some other country, I'd just avoid Botswana and go straight to that
other county!



wrote in message
...

The reason someone from australia cares about US politics/law is because
when i plan to go to your country in the near future (6/12 months)
to buy my next boat i may wish to come home via cuba or any other damm
country in the world and if that means sailing into a strange coast
without charts, Then they are putting my life at risk.
As i said before safety sake alone requires me to have charts of the area.
Do they just pretend that it it is a great void in the ocean or will it
become the cuban rectangle of mystery and wrecks. or will the charts
show go Nay further shall yea go or yea shall fall from tis world for
strange creatures here abide.
With dark age thinking come the dark ages again.
Does the final word come from my family when they SUE the US government
for the lose of my life and my income due to there negligence in
disallowing me to have navigation charts that would have told me that
there is a reef/rock/wreck in that straight that i head for for shelter.
Banning citizens from going to cuba Fine that's your peoples choice (you
folks voted them in) but banning me from carrying charts on my boat must
be on the same analogue as the romans banning Christianity.
Both will still be there long after the other is gone.
Shaun



I've always thought someone pumping their political opinion (and the
ever popular "I'm an American and I'll carry my gun into any Damned
country I want to!" as if the laws of Mexico/Canada/someotherplace don't
count) into a newgroup to be the equivalent of spamming. All it ends up
doing is creating a series of "Does not", "Does to" messages. Then the
name calling starts. Besides, why does someone of
Australia/England/Upper Volta (yeah that country doesn't use that name
anymore) care about American politics/laws. I personally think the
Cuban situation stinks and I'm on the other side of the country from the
ICW.

"Falky foo" wrote in message
om...


Let's face it, if, say, Botswana or wherever implemented some dumb ass
rules
whereby they could confiscate any ship that went into their waters and
then
went to some other country, I'd just avoid Botswana and go straight to
that
other county!


Botswana is landlocked ;-)
Though I did go on a boat trip through the Okavango delta. It's a great
place to visit, but watch out for the Hippos.

Peter HK

Harry Krause wrote:

We normalized relations with Germany, Italy, and Japan after WW II. We
normalized relations with Vietnam, the Sov Union and the PRC. There's no
reason to maintain Cuba on the anathema list.

Yup! You normalised relations with the Soviet Union and did to the communist empire
what no H-bomb, economic sanctions or propaganda could do. It no longer exists and
we call them now: Russia, Ukraine, Georgia, Lithuania, Yougoslavia, Poland, etc...
You normalised relations with China and now, private entrepreneurship (do I dare
say capitalism?) is legal there and growing quite rapidly. Why this wouldn't work
with Cuba? My opinion is that the best weapon against Castro is to bring there the
western way of of life is thru tourism and trade.

As a Canadian, I effectively won't go to the US, fearing whatever some paranoid
custom officer can imagine on a bad hair day, this, even if I never went to Cuba
and won't probably ever go! Canada normalised its relations with the USSR and PRC
long before the US. We have normal relations with Cuba too and I think it would be
a great idea for you guys (and gals) to follow us on this one too!

Hoping, some day, you can bring back home the best rum in the world! ;-)

Jean Dufour
Montreal,Qc

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:03:57 -0800, Cardinal_Bill
wrote:

Actually, I seem to recall, that they had official approval, which was
revoked after the fact and then they were charged.

===========================================

Which has now been affirmed by the judicial branch. Every once in a
while the system seems to work. Too bad that they probably can't
recover their legal costs.

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:30:43 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:
It is not over yet. The charges were dismissed "without prejudice" which
means the government is still able to dream up another offence to charge
them with.

==================================

Well that's good to know. Atrocities against decent law abiding
citizens like sail boat racing should not be allowed to continue. Who
knows, they might have smoked an illegal cigar while they were there.

WaIIy wrote:

Who's the paranoid one?

Since you don't get it, I'll explain. Anyone crossing into the good ol'
US of A can be fingerprinted and photographed at the whim of an
individual customs officer. The way you clowns are heading I wonder how
long it will be until travellers into the States get tattooed, perhaps
on a forearm?
On principle I have terminated 25 years of yearly travel with my family
to Florida and will not return to the US until reason returns. There are
many other sunny destinations where my disposable income is welcomed and
quite frankly needed to a much greater degree.

Have someone read the USA Patriot Act to you, better still have someone
convert it into comic book form so that it will be easier for you to
comprehend. Detention without charges or right to access to counsel,
extortion/coercion of "cooperation" of public facilities like libraries,
wiretapping, eavesdropping, "Homeland Security", "Coastal Watch"
programs, encouragement of informing, etc...

You poor schmuck. The Bushstapo has trampled your constitutional rights
and you're too clued out to realize it.

WaIIy wrote:

Who's the paranoid one?

Hi Wally!

Paranoia may very well be contagious. Mine doesn't make me loose money or my boat
but homeland security's one does scares tourists away. But who cares? It's only a
fifth of Florida's economy and the 3 billions+ dollars tourists leave there in sales
tax only provide for Floridians not to pay personal income tax a the state level!
Not a big deal. ...or is it?

See: http://www.fact-index.com/f/fl/florida.html#Economy

and

http://floridataxwatch.org/resources...orBusiness.pdf

And to Canadians reading this: don't think Kerry is a better deal for us. He's more
of a protectionist than Bush and that'll be worst for our economy. We're kind of in
a catch 22 situation. There, you know this is not a Reps. vs Dems thing. I was just
stating that the embargo on Cuba IMHO helps more Castro to stay in power than
invading them "economically" and by rebound, culturally. And that's my last words on
this subject...

Best wishes!

Jean