I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I don;t think
a flare will even peretrate clothes let alone the person within.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Garuda" wrote in message
...
Thanks for acquiescing regarding the 44 magnum with tracers. However, I
believe the original thread dealt with flareguns and then migrated to an
inability of plastic gun to be used as a weapon. My point, albeit a bit
oblique, is penetration however slight is sufficient to complete the act.

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
| Fine, get a gun and a flaregun. Your implication is that a 44 Magnum
| is somehow an acceptable flaregun for legal purposes. Not true
|
|
| "Garuda" wrote in message
| ...
| At sea, there is no government, therefore I am responsible for my own
| safety. In port is another matter.
| "Doug Dotson" wrote in message
| ...
| | Doesn't matter what you or I think is a good flaregun (your example
| | is a pretty poor one). It the government's (ours or theirs)
decision.
| |
| | Doug
| |
| | "Garuda" wrote in message
| | ...
| | Consider a 44 magnum with tracer rounds as a flare pistol.
| |
| | "RWKxxx" wrote in message
| | ...
| | | Doug, I agree the flare gun may not kill or put someone down for
a
| long
| | time
| | | but in my case I was in foreign countries were it was illegal to
| have
| a
| | gun
| | | aboard. I could have loaded flare guns laying around in special
| places
| | that I
| | | could grab and shut it to fire in an emergency if someone were
to
| board
| | me
| | | unexpectedly. I did have a gun but it was hidden to far way and
| would
| | take
| | to
| | | long in that type of emergency.
| | |
| | | From: "Doug Dotson"
| | | Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes.
Might
| | knock
| | | someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually
| kill
| an
| | | attacker.
| | | Not sure how a flare gun is better?
| | |
| | | Doug
| | | s/v Callista
| | |
| | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message
| | | ...
| | | I spent 14 yrs cruising central and South America and always
had
a
| | flare
| | | gun
| | | setting were I could get to it fast. When this was first
| suggested
| to
| | me I
| | | was
| | | in Mexico and took a flare gun ashore and aimed it at a big
| barrel
| | cactus.
| | | It
| | | blew a hole half way through it. A flare gun might not be the
| best
| | but
| | in
| | | most
| | | countries it is legal and you can put it were you can get it
in
a
| | hurry. I
| | | would hate to be shot with one. The other options are not as
good
| as
| | this
| | | one
| | | in my opinion.
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | | I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State,
| Lake
| | | Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard.
I
| was
| | told
| | | by
| | | West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they
are
| | | "weapons."
| | | Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can
it
| | shoot
| | | regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal?
Is
| it
| a
| | | danger
| | | to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd
| | appreciate
| | any
| | | info?
| | |
| | | --
| | | Steve
| | |
| | | --
| | |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|

Of course, it may not matter how much actual damage a flare gun would do.
(But my common sense tells me it could be pretty nasty fired at someone's
face--and I would have time to reload. Would you want another round between
the cheeks?)

Guns in general may be more effective as symbols than when actually
detonated. As long as the intruder sees the gun and believes that it will
injure them it is worth its weight in gold as far as I'm concerned.

This might be effective. E.g. drunk teenagers looking for some fun
harassing a boater could be disuaded from continuing their insults without
ever having to fire a shot oops I mean flare at them. If I were attacked by
pirates or really serious criminals, I would not be able to defend myself no
matter what weapons I had. (Are there pirates on Lake Ontario?) It's the
casual intruder with malicious intent that is the one I might be able to
deal with. And frankly I do not want to be simply at the mercy of a
"merely" malicious intruder, etc.

I think all in all a flare pistol might not be a bad idea as a self-defense
"weapon" since actual guns seem to have too many negatives. It at least is
something--a symbol, a threat, an unknown to the intruder who will not want
to find out how effective it is.

Cheers,

Steve

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I don;t think
a flare will even peretrate clothes let alone the person within.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Garuda" wrote in message
...
Thanks for acquiescing regarding the 44 magnum with tracers. However, I
believe the original thread dealt with flareguns and then migrated to an
inability of plastic gun to be used as a weapon. My point, albeit a bit
oblique, is penetration however slight is sufficient to complete the
act.

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
| Fine, get a gun and a flaregun. Your implication is that a 44 Magnum
| is somehow an acceptable flaregun for legal purposes. Not true
|
|
| "Garuda" wrote in message
| ...
| At sea, there is no government, therefore I am responsible for my
own
| safety. In port is another matter.
| "Doug Dotson" wrote in
message
| ...
| | Doesn't matter what you or I think is a good flaregun (your
example
| | is a pretty poor one). It the government's (ours or theirs)
decision.
| |
| | Doug
| |
| | "Garuda" wrote in message
| | ...
| | Consider a 44 magnum with tracer rounds as a flare pistol.
| |
| | "RWKxxx" wrote in message
| | ...
| | | Doug, I agree the flare gun may not kill or put someone down
for
a
| long
| | time
| | | but in my case I was in foreign countries were it was illegal
to
| have
| a
| | gun
| | | aboard. I could have loaded flare guns laying around in
special
| places
| | that I
| | | could grab and shut it to fire in an emergency if someone were
to
| board
| | me
| | | unexpectedly. I did have a gun but it was hidden to far way
and
| would
| | take
| | to
| | | long in that type of emergency.
| | |
| | | From: "Doug Dotson"
| | | Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes.
Might
| | knock
| | | someone down but not kill them. The other options will
actually
| kill
| an
| | | attacker.
| | | Not sure how a flare gun is better?
| | |
| | | Doug
| | | s/v Callista
| | |
| | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message
| | | ...
| | | I spent 14 yrs cruising central and South America and always
had
a
| | flare
| | | gun
| | | setting were I could get to it fast. When this was first
| suggested
| to
| | me I
| | | was
| | | in Mexico and took a flare gun ashore and aimed it at a big
| barrel
| | cactus.
| | | It
| | | blew a hole half way through it. A flare gun might not be
the
| best
| | but
| | in
| | | most
| | | countries it is legal and you can put it were you can get
it
in
a
| | hurry. I
| | | would hate to be shot with one. The other options are not
as
good
| as
| | this
| | | one
| | | in my opinion.
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | | I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York
State,
| Lake
| | | Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast
Guard.
I
| was
| | told
| | | by
| | | West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as
they
are
| | | "weapons."
| | | Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon?
Can
it
| | shoot
| | | regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal?
Is
| it
| a
| | | danger
| | | to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd
| | appreciate
| | any
| | | info?
| | |
| | | --
| | | Steve
| | |
| | | --
| | |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|

The deterrent value of a firearm is well known. That's why in
areas where handguns have been banned (Wash DC, England, etc)
the crime rates are high. Even Washington DC has finally come to
its senses and is eliminating the ban of private ownership of guns.
Anyway, this is a subject for a different thread/group.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Steve Schwartz" wrote in message
...
Of course, it may not matter how much actual damage a flare gun would do.
(But my common sense tells me it could be pretty nasty fired at someone's
face--and I would have time to reload. Would you want another round
between
the cheeks?)

Guns in general may be more effective as symbols than when actually
detonated. As long as the intruder sees the gun and believes that it will
injure them it is worth its weight in gold as far as I'm concerned.

This might be effective. E.g. drunk teenagers looking for some fun
harassing a boater could be disuaded from continuing their insults without
ever having to fire a shot oops I mean flare at them. If I were attacked
by
pirates or really serious criminals, I would not be able to defend myself
no
matter what weapons I had. (Are there pirates on Lake Ontario?) It's the
casual intruder with malicious intent that is the one I might be able to
deal with. And frankly I do not want to be simply at the mercy of a
"merely" malicious intruder, etc.

I think all in all a flare pistol might not be a bad idea as a
self-defense
"weapon" since actual guns seem to have too many negatives. It at least
is
something--a symbol, a threat, an unknown to the intruder who will not
want
to find out how effective it is.

Cheers,

Steve

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I don;t think
a flare will even peretrate clothes let alone the person within.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Garuda" wrote in message
...
Thanks for acquiescing regarding the 44 magnum with tracers. However,
I
believe the original thread dealt with flareguns and then migrated to
an
inability of plastic gun to be used as a weapon. My point, albeit a
bit
oblique, is penetration however slight is sufficient to complete the
act.

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
| Fine, get a gun and a flaregun. Your implication is that a 44 Magnum
| is somehow an acceptable flaregun for legal purposes. Not true
|
|
| "Garuda" wrote in message
| ...
| At sea, there is no government, therefore I am responsible for my
own
| safety. In port is another matter.
| "Doug Dotson" wrote in
message
| ...
| | Doesn't matter what you or I think is a good flaregun (your
example
| | is a pretty poor one). It the government's (ours or theirs)
decision.
| |
| | Doug
| |
| | "Garuda" wrote in message
| |
...
| | Consider a 44 magnum with tracer rounds as a flare pistol.
| |
| | "RWKxxx" wrote in message
| | ...
| | | Doug, I agree the flare gun may not kill or put someone down
for
a
| long
| | time
| | | but in my case I was in foreign countries were it was illegal
to
| have
| a
| | gun
| | | aboard. I could have loaded flare guns laying around in
special
| places
| | that I
| | | could grab and shut it to fire in an emergency if someone
were
to
| board
| | me
| | | unexpectedly. I did have a gun but it was hidden to far way
and
| would
| | take
| | to
| | | long in that type of emergency.
| | |
| | | From: "Doug Dotson"
| | | Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear
clothes.
Might
| | knock
| | | someone down but not kill them. The other options will
actually
| kill
| an
| | | attacker.
| | | Not sure how a flare gun is better?
| | |
| | | Doug
| | | s/v Callista
| | |
| | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message
| | | ...
| | | I spent 14 yrs cruising central and South America and
always
had
a
| | flare
| | | gun
| | | setting were I could get to it fast. When this was first
| suggested
| to
| | me I
| | | was
| | | in Mexico and took a flare gun ashore and aimed it at a
big
| barrel
| | cactus.
| | | It
| | | blew a hole half way through it. A flare gun might not be
the
| best
| | but
| | in
| | | most
| | | countries it is legal and you can put it were you can get
it
in
a
| | hurry. I
| | | would hate to be shot with one. The other options are not
as
good
| as
| | this
| | | one
| | | in my opinion.
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | | I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York
State,
| Lake
| | | Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast
Guard.
I
| was
| | told
| | | by
| | | West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as
they
are
| | | "weapons."
| | | Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon?
Can
it
| | shoot
| | | regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells
lethal?
Is
| it
| a
| | | danger
| | | to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this?
I'd
| | appreciate
| | any
| | | info?
| | |
| | | --
| | | Steve
| | |
| | | --
| | |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|

Doug Dotson wrote:
The deterrent value of a firearm is well known.

oh horse**** you dufus

That's why in
areas where handguns have been banned (Wash DC, England, etc)
the crime rates are high.

let's see, murders per year in America = 11,000+
murders per year in England 100-200

pull your head out of your arse and breathe will you

prod, you don't seem to understand the nature of doug's usual postings.


prodigal1
Date: 10/14/2004 10:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Doug Dotson wrote:
The deterrent value of a firearm is well known.

oh horse**** you dufus

That's why in
areas where handguns have been banned (Wash DC, England, etc)
the crime rates are high.

let's see, murders per year in America = 11,000+
murders per year in England 100-200

pull your head out of your arse and breathe will you

Yes, but look at home invasions in England. Murder isn't the only crime
there is. Also, merders per capita might be a more useful statistic. Total
murders is a useless one.

Doug


"prodigal1" wrote in message
...
Doug Dotson wrote:
The deterrent value of a firearm is well known.

oh horse**** you dufus

That's why in
areas where handguns have been banned (Wash DC, England, etc)
the crime rates are high.

let's see, murders per year in America = 11,000+
murders per year in England 100-200

pull your head out of your arse and breathe will you

Guns in general may be more effective as symbols than when actually
detonated.

I saw a fully trained Marine holding a cocked .45 colt Hollywood stunt gun at
chest level on a stunt man (a USMC Reservist) hands by his side, a single
action (meaning the gun had to have the hammer pulled back by hand in order to
be fired) stunt gun on either hip, draw, cock and fire each gun twice before
the Marine at the ready and waiting to pull the trigger could pull even once.

As long as the intruder sees the gun and believes that it will
injure them it is worth its weight in gold as far as I'm concerned.

not worth its weight in lead, to a man who knows that most people can't fire
even once in a fraction of a second.

be careful guy.

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:23:29 GMT, "Steve Schwartz"
wrote:

drunk teenagers looking for some fun
harassing a boater could be disuaded from continuing their insults without
ever having to fire a shot oops I mean flare at them.

That's a 911 call in my book.

(Are there pirates on Lake Ontario?)

Only at the marinas and fuel docks.

some ****head powerboater fired a 12 gauge flare into my jibsail, flare
bouncing off and into the water. sail had slightest indication of soot (though
I had caught the ****er who shot it I would have used "necessary force" to keep
him down until the cops got there. Unfortunately, it was lite winds and he
hightailed out of sight.)

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I don;t think
a flare will even peretrate clothes let alone the person within.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Garuda" wrote in message
...
Thanks for acquiescing regarding the 44 magnum with tracers. However, I
believe the original thread dealt with flareguns and then migrated to an
inability of plastic gun to be used as a weapon. My point, albeit a bit
oblique, is penetration however slight is sufficient to complete the act.

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
| Fine, get a gun and a flaregun. Your implication is that a 44 Magnum
| is somehow an acceptable flaregun for legal purposes. Not true
|
|
| "Garuda" wrote in message
| ...
| At sea, there is no government, therefore I am responsible for my own
| safety. In port is another matter.
| "Doug Dotson" wrote in message
| ...
| | Doesn't matter what you or I think is a good flaregun (your example
| | is a pretty poor one). It the government's (ours or theirs)
decision.
| |
| | Doug
| |
| | "Garuda" wrote in message
| | ...
| | Consider a 44 magnum with tracer rounds as a flare pistol.
| |
| | "RWKxxx" wrote in message
| | ...
| | | Doug, I agree the flare gun may not kill or put someone down for
a
| long
| | time
| | | but in my case I was in foreign countries were it was illegal to
| have
| a
| | gun
| | | aboard. I could have loaded flare guns laying around in special
| places
| | that I
| | | could grab and shut it to fire in an emergency if someone were
to
| board
| | me
| | | unexpectedly. I did have a gun but it was hidden to far way and
| would
| | take
| | to
| | | long in that type of emergency.
| | |
| | | From: "Doug Dotson"
| | | Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes.
Might
| | knock
| | | someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually
| kill
| an
| | | attacker.
| | | Not sure how a flare gun is better?
| | |
| | | Doug
| | | s/v Callista
| | |
| | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message
| | | ...
| | | I spent 14 yrs cruising central and South America and always
had
a
| | flare
| | | gun
| | | setting were I could get to it fast. When this was first
| suggested
| to
| | me I
| | | was
| | | in Mexico and took a flare gun ashore and aimed it at a big
| barrel
| | cactus.
| | | It
| | | blew a hole half way through it. A flare gun might not be the
| best
| | but
| | in
| | | most
| | | countries it is legal and you can put it were you can get it
in
a
| | hurry. I
| | | would hate to be shot with one. The other options are not as
good
| as
| | this
| | | one
| | | in my opinion.
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | | I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State,
| Lake
| | | Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard.
I
| was
| | told
| | | by
| | | West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they
are
| | | "weapons."
| | | Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can
it
| | shoot
| | | regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal?
Is
| it
| a
| | | danger
| | | to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd
| | appreciate
| | any
| | | info?
| | |
| | | --
| | | Steve
| | |
| | | --
| | |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|