In article EyJbd.61530$tU4.19280@okepread06,
"Eric Currier" wrote:

Automatic weapons are NOT illegal, and have not been for many years, with
proper paperwork and fees not only can a law abiding citizen own an
automatic weapon, but the fact of the matter is there are more automatic
weapons in private hands than there are in both law enforcment and military
hands.

This MAY be true in your state, but in SOME States, it is Illegal to
posses or own a Full Auto Firearm, no matter who you are.

Me

JAX, by your defination "automatic" weapons have never been banned, and for
the record neither has fully automatic weapons (machine guns).
Yes, there is a $250.00 yearly fee to own one and a lot of scrutiny...but
the fact remains there are more FULLY automatic weapons in civilian hands
than there are in both law enforcment and military combined. And they are
legal.
The gun people use "semi-automatic" to define guns that are self loaders,
but have a disconect sear so that the trigger must be released before the
next cartrige will fire. They use "automatic" to define a self loading gun
that automatically fires the next round until the trigger is released.

But this is off the subject, the question was if a flare gun is a weapon.

Eric

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
eric, be careful with your use of terms. "automatic" rifles and pistols
are in
common usage by civilians, but the word automatic used in that context
means
the weapon chambers another round and cocks the gun "automatically" after
each
fired round.

However "fully automatic" (which keep firing as long as the trigger is
pulled,
and means "machine guns" to most people) are not much represented in the
civilian population (there is a $250 yearly fee involved, and a lot of
scrutiny
by law enforcement at all levels). machine guns are far and away more
common
in the military.

many of the "assault weapons" forbidden under the old law were legally
sold to
civilians once the magazines and flash suppressors were removed. same
firing
power but you don't look as cool to your buddies and you can't fire but
maybe
six (?) rounds before reloading (as opposed to 18 to 30 with a magazine
fed
weapon) and reloading is slower. big deal.

"Eric Currier"
Date: 10/15/2004 1:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: EyJbd.61530$tU4.19280@okepread06

Automatic weapons are NOT illegal, and have not been for many years, with
proper paperwork and fees not only can a law abiding citizen own an
automatic weapon, but the fact of the matter is there are more automatic
weapons in private hands than there are in both law enforcment and
military
hands.
The other fact of the matter is the "assualt weapon" ban was a useless
piece
of legislation and anyone who believes it's demise will cause machine gun
toting criminals to overrun our streets is someone who does not
understand
guns, and gets all thier information from the liberal media.

As for the question on the flare pistol, why post a question here? write
to
the company that makes the flare pistol and get the truth from the people
who know exactllay what laws apply and how they apply...it's thier
livelyhood.

Eric

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Automatic weapons have been illegal for years, and still are for the
general
public. The term "assualt weapon" is poorly defined, and was just made
up
to
ban a few rifles that "looked bad". GWB didn't do anything... the bill
banning those "assualt weapons" hit it's sunset date, and ended without
congress trying to re-enact it. At least they had some sense.

Your misconceptions are just what the anti-gun lobby wants. Sorry you
fell
for it.

--


Keith
__
A 'good' return to your slip is one from which you can walk away. A
'great'
return is one after which they can use the boat again.

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message

Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing
the
other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free the
sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Jax and I rarely agree. This time it's complete agreement and probably more
especially in the uneducated or perhaps intentional misuse of the terms
automatic and assault.

1. Yes you can use the flare pistol if you have the technical ability and
knowhow. I'm not passing it on. Better you blow off your fingers than the
alternatives.

2. Second why would you want to do so? If you are in your own country and
it's legal (and necessary) by something descent.

3. Third if you are going to a place on the planet where you think a weapon
is necessary why are you going there? Strikes me the same as going to
certain parts of town atcertain times with a lot of $100 bills poking out of
your pocket. To much of the world that's the face we present just by being
on a 'yacht,' and no matter if we scrimped and saved for 20 years to own
that 26
foot long 30 year old sloop or that the single $100 bill is all we have.

4. If you take a weapon to another country there are five considerations all
negative and none which are positive.

First, realize fully when you get three miles off shore (this for USA
citizens) you left ALL constitutional protections behind.

Second, when you arrive in a foreign country you must register the
weapon regardless of how disguised it may be and often it is taken from you
and secured until you leave.

Third, if you use the declared weapon on a human being, or even a local
animal you come under their laws (reread the first consideration again) and
their courts and their police and their jails or prisons.

Fourth If you didn't declare the weapon and it's found the best you can
hope for is deportation and confiscation of property including your boat.
That's the normal penalty for smuggling and illegal arms possession.

Fifth if you didn't declare the weapon and use it plan, at best, on an
extended stay in one of their special hotels and reread Numbers One, Three,
and Four again.

So my point is . ... if it's that dangerous why go there? Plenty of places
in the world without trying to match your home made zip gun against real
weaponry and your probable inability to use same when your opponent has no
problem killing you.

On the other hand if you really feel the need to go . . .do so. But as for
assistance. . . my number will be busy.


Michael
S/V Se Langt

(for the record 20 years infantry and 3 years police officer)

PS There is a sixth consideration, known to those few who have really had to
use these tools for their intended purpose. Think about it.

Well Stated!

Doug
s/v Callista

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Jax and I rarely agree. This time it's complete agreement and probably
more
especially in the uneducated or perhaps intentional misuse of the terms
automatic and assault.

1. Yes you can use the flare pistol if you have the technical ability and
knowhow. I'm not passing it on. Better you blow off your fingers than the
alternatives.

2. Second why would you want to do so? If you are in your own country
and
it's legal (and necessary) by something descent.

3. Third if you are going to a place on the planet where you think a
weapon
is necessary why are you going there? Strikes me the same as going to
certain parts of town atcertain times with a lot of $100 bills poking out
of
your pocket. To much of the world that's the face we present just by
being
on a 'yacht,' and no matter if we scrimped and saved for 20 years to own
that 26
foot long 30 year old sloop or that the single $100 bill is all we have.

4. If you take a weapon to another country there are five considerations
all
negative and none which are positive.

First, realize fully when you get three miles off shore (this for USA
citizens) you left ALL constitutional protections behind.

Second, when you arrive in a foreign country you must register the
weapon regardless of how disguised it may be and often it is taken from
you
and secured until you leave.

Third, if you use the declared weapon on a human being, or even a local
animal you come under their laws (reread the first consideration again)
and
their courts and their police and their jails or prisons.

Fourth If you didn't declare the weapon and it's found the best you
can
hope for is deportation and confiscation of property including your boat.
That's the normal penalty for smuggling and illegal arms possession.

Fifth if you didn't declare the weapon and use it plan, at best, on an
extended stay in one of their special hotels and reread Numbers One,
Three,
and Four again.

So my point is . ... if it's that dangerous why go there? Plenty of
places
in the world without trying to match your home made zip gun against real
weaponry and your probable inability to use same when your opponent has no
problem killing you.

On the other hand if you really feel the need to go . . .do so. But as
for
assistance. . . my number will be busy.


Michael
S/V Se Langt

(for the record 20 years infantry and 3 years police officer)

PS There is a sixth consideration, known to those few who have really had
to
use these tools for their intended purpose. Think about it.

careful, doug. you are confusing the term "automatic" with "fully automatic".
ain't hardly the same no how.

eric, be careful with your use of terms. "automatic" rifles and pistols
are in
common usage by civilians, but the word automatic used in that context
means
the weapon chambers another round and cocks the gun "automatically" after
each
fired round.

That would be a semi-automatic weapon. The term automatic is generally
considered to mean fully-automatic.

However "fully automatic" (which keep firing as long as the trigger is
pulled,
and means "machine guns" to most people) are not much represented in the
civilian population (there is a $250 yearly fee involved, and a lot of
scrutiny
by law enforcement at all levels). machine guns are far and away more
common
in the military.

many of the "assault weapons" forbidden under the old law were legally
sold to
civilians once the magazines and flash suppressors were removed. same
firing
power but you don't look as cool to your buddies and you can't fire but
maybe
six (?) rounds before reloading (as opposed to 18 to 30 with a magazine
fed
weapon) and reloading is slower. big deal.

"Eric Currier"
Date: 10/15/2004 1:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: EyJbd.61530$tU4.19280@okepread06

Automatic weapons are NOT illegal, and have not been for many years, with
proper paperwork and fees not only can a law abiding citizen own an
automatic weapon, but the fact of the matter is there are more automatic
weapons in private hands than there are in both law enforcment and
military
hands.
The other fact of the matter is the "assualt weapon" ban was a useless
piece
of legislation and anyone who believes it's demise will cause machine gun
toting criminals to overrun our streets is someone who does not understand
guns, and gets all thier information from the liberal media.

As for the question on the flare pistol, why post a question here? write
to
the company that makes the flare pistol and get the truth from the people
who know exactllay what laws apply and how they apply...it's thier
livelyhood.

Eric

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Automatic weapons have been illegal for years, and still are for the
general
public. The term "assualt weapon" is poorly defined, and was just made
up
to
ban a few rifles that "looked bad". GWB didn't do anything... the bill
banning those "assualt weapons" hit it's sunset date, and ended without
congress trying to re-enact it. At least they had some sense.

Your misconceptions are just what the anti-gun lobby wants. Sorry you
fell
for it.

--


Keith
__
A 'good' return to your slip is one from which you can walk away. A
'great'
return is one after which they can use the boat again.

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message

Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing the
other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free the
sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

having spent some time carrying a fully automatic rifle (pull the trigger and
it keeps firing until you let up on the trigger) among colleagues also carrying
full automatic weapons, and having met no more than two civilians who owned
fully automatic weapons, I doubt your statement.

For one thing, anyone who has ever fired fully auto knows the damned things
climb after the first few rounds. most people -- even fully trained people --
who fire fully auto do no more than "spray the treeline". It wastes ammo and
scares only the rawest recruits. well aimed shots can be fired one at a time
fast enough to sound like (to the untrained ear) like machine gunfire.

anyone who tells one and all *he* will carry a fully automatic weapon to
protect himself has a short dick, emotionally.

Me, I use good sense to avoid getting my ass in jam where I feel the need for
any weapon. I suggest you do the same.

"Eric Currier"
Date: 10/15/2004 2:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: UJUbd.70111$tU4.11303@okepread06

JAX, by your defination "automatic" weapons have never been banned, and for
the record neither has fully automatic weapons (machine guns).
Yes, there is a $250.00 yearly fee to own one and a lot of scrutiny...but
the fact remains there are more FULLY automatic weapons in civilian hands
than there are in both law enforcment and military combined. And they are
legal.
The gun people use "semi-automatic" to define guns that are self loaders,
but have a disconect sear so that the trigger must be released before the
next cartrige will fire. They use "automatic" to define a self loading gun
that automatically fires the next round until the trigger is released.

But this is off the subject, the question was if a flare gun is a weapon.

Eric

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
eric, be careful with your use of terms. "automatic" rifles and pistols
are in
common usage by civilians, but the word automatic used in that context
means
the weapon chambers another round and cocks the gun "automatically" after
each
fired round.

However "fully automatic" (which keep firing as long as the trigger is
pulled,
and means "machine guns" to most people) are not much represented in the
civilian population (there is a $250 yearly fee involved, and a lot of
scrutiny
by law enforcement at all levels). machine guns are far and away more
common
in the military.

many of the "assault weapons" forbidden under the old law were legally
sold to
civilians once the magazines and flash suppressors were removed. same
firing
power but you don't look as cool to your buddies and you can't fire but
maybe
six (?) rounds before reloading (as opposed to 18 to 30 with a magazine
fed
weapon) and reloading is slower. big deal.

"Eric Currier"
Date: 10/15/2004 1:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: EyJbd.61530$tU4.19280@okepread06

Automatic weapons are NOT illegal, and have not been for many years, with
proper paperwork and fees not only can a law abiding citizen own an
automatic weapon, but the fact of the matter is there are more automatic
weapons in private hands than there are in both law enforcment and
military
hands.
The other fact of the matter is the "assualt weapon" ban was a useless
piece
of legislation and anyone who believes it's demise will cause machine gun
toting criminals to overrun our streets is someone who does not
understand
guns, and gets all thier information from the liberal media.

As for the question on the flare pistol, why post a question here? write
to
the company that makes the flare pistol and get the truth from the people
who know exactllay what laws apply and how they apply...it's thier
livelyhood.

Eric

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Automatic weapons have been illegal for years, and still are for the
general
public. The term "assualt weapon" is poorly defined, and was just made
up
to
ban a few rifles that "looked bad". GWB didn't do anything... the bill
banning those "assualt weapons" hit it's sunset date, and ended without
congress trying to re-enact it. At least they had some sense.

Your misconceptions are just what the anti-gun lobby wants. Sorry you
fell
for it.

--


Keith
__
A 'good' return to your slip is one from which you can walk away. A
'great'
return is one after which they can use the boat again.

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message

Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing
the
other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free the
sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Jax and I rarely agree.

PS There is a sixth consideration, known to those few who have really had to
use these tools for their intended purpose. Think about it.


yup. I agree, Michael. Most people, even those well trained prior to combat,
just fire away at the air hitting nothing until they are out of ammo.

Side note: In WWII, 5% of American pilots downed 50% of the enemy aircraft,
while just another 10% downed 40%. Among German fighter pilots, just 103 men
downed just three short of 14,000 aircraft. One German pilot -- who died of
old age -- downed 352 aircraft.

Be careful of just who you pull a gun on. Some people don't scare at all,
because they know they are quicker than you ever think you might be. Besides,
you are likely to be one of those who fire into the air.

A friend of mine of long ago had a Silver Star listed on his DD-214. I asked
him how he got it. He said charley jumped out of the brush and unloaded with a
(30-round) banana clip at close range at the group, all 30 rounds going wild.
He returned fired hitting charley with 16 of 18 rounds from his M-16. Friend
was 6' 6" tall and made an excellent target. charley was standard charley
size.

Yes they are.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
careful, doug. you are confusing the term "automatic" with "fully
automatic".
ain't hardly the same no how.

eric, be careful with your use of terms. "automatic" rifles and pistols
are in
common usage by civilians, but the word automatic used in that context
means
the weapon chambers another round and cocks the gun "automatically"
after
each
fired round.

That would be a semi-automatic weapon. The term automatic is generally
considered to mean fully-automatic.

However "fully automatic" (which keep firing as long as the trigger is
pulled,
and means "machine guns" to most people) are not much represented in the
civilian population (there is a $250 yearly fee involved, and a lot of
scrutiny
by law enforcement at all levels). machine guns are far and away more
common
in the military.

many of the "assault weapons" forbidden under the old law were legally
sold to
civilians once the magazines and flash suppressors were removed. same
firing
power but you don't look as cool to your buddies and you can't fire but
maybe
six (?) rounds before reloading (as opposed to 18 to 30 with a magazine
fed
weapon) and reloading is slower. big deal.

"Eric Currier"
Date: 10/15/2004 1:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: EyJbd.61530$tU4.19280@okepread06

Automatic weapons are NOT illegal, and have not been for many years,
with
proper paperwork and fees not only can a law abiding citizen own an
automatic weapon, but the fact of the matter is there are more automatic
weapons in private hands than there are in both law enforcment and
military
hands.
The other fact of the matter is the "assualt weapon" ban was a useless
piece
of legislation and anyone who believes it's demise will cause machine
gun
toting criminals to overrun our streets is someone who does not
understand
guns, and gets all thier information from the liberal media.

As for the question on the flare pistol, why post a question here? write
to
the company that makes the flare pistol and get the truth from the
people
who know exactllay what laws apply and how they apply...it's thier
livelyhood.

Eric

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Automatic weapons have been illegal for years, and still are for the
general
public. The term "assualt weapon" is poorly defined, and was just made
up
to
ban a few rifles that "looked bad". GWB didn't do anything... the bill
banning those "assualt weapons" hit it's sunset date, and ended
without
congress trying to re-enact it. At least they had some sense.

Your misconceptions are just what the anti-gun lobby wants. Sorry you
fell
for it.

--


Keith
__
A 'good' return to your slip is one from which you can walk away. A
'great'
return is one after which they can use the boat again.

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message

Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing
the
other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free
the
sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

From: "Michael"
Date: 10/15/2004 5:51 PM Eastern


1. Yes you can use the flare pistol if you have the technical ability and
knowhow. I'm not passing it on. Better you blow off your fingers than the

?????? I would think you would aim it and pull the trigger.




3. Third if you are going to a place on the planet where you think a weapon
is necessary why are you going there?


There are many of us that like to cruise in foreign countries and enjoy. Parts
of every country have dangerous areas that protection is nice, that includes
the US. I have been in parts of Miami, New York and LA that were just as
dangerous as any of the 37 countries I have visited.


First, realize fully when you get three miles off shore (this for USA
citizens) you left ALL constitutional protections behind.


NOT TRUE
Second, when you arrive in a foreign country you must register the
weapon regardless of how disguised it may be and often it is taken from you
and secured until you leave.

Very true in most countries, but not the flare gun. I always had st least two
of them setting in plain sight and NEVER had a problem with them
Third, if you use the declared weapon on a human being, or even a local
animal you come under their laws (reread the first consideration again) and
their courts and their police and their jails or prisons.

True but if you life is in danger what are you going to worry about first?


This started out about a flare gun being used as a weapon and drifted off track
a little (as usual) The flare gun is not the ideal weapon but is a quick and
available means of protecting yourself in some cases. Common sense should
dictate when and how to use it. Since this is a cruising group I assumed we
were talking about off shore cruising????? I have spent over 14 yrs cruising
central and south America and would not be without one sitting were I could
grab it in a hurry if someone was boarding my boat without my permission. I did
have that happen one morning when at anchor in Panama and it turned out to be
undercover Drug agents from a fishing boat. (another weird story).

After I got out of the Marine Corps I spent 5 yrs as a police officer in the
Los Angels area of Calif. so I am familiar with some of our laws, none of which
prohibit you from having a flare gun. All countries are going to hold you
responsible for your use of it and anything else you use to defend yourself
including your hands so you have to use good judgment.

Well someone has to go to Indonesia. Have a safe trip. I'll send you a
card from Norway.

"RWKxxx" wrote in message
...
From: "Michael"
Date: 10/15/2004 5:51 PM Eastern


1. Yes you can use the flare pistol if you have the technical ability
and
knowhow. I'm not passing it on. Better you blow off your fingers than
the

?????? I would think you would aim it and pull the trigger.




3. Third if you are going to a place on the planet where you think a
weapon
is necessary why are you going there?


There are many of us that like to cruise in foreign countries and enjoy.
Parts
of every country have dangerous areas that protection is nice, that
includes
the US. I have been in parts of Miami, New York and LA that were just as
dangerous as any of the 37 countries I have visited.


First, realize fully when you get three miles off shore (this for
USA
citizens) you left ALL constitutional protections behind.


NOT TRUE
Second, when you arrive in a foreign country you must register the
weapon regardless of how disguised it may be and often it is taken from
you
and secured until you leave.

Very true in most countries, but not the flare gun. I always had st least
two
of them setting in plain sight and NEVER had a problem with them
Third, if you use the declared weapon on a human being, or even a
local
animal you come under their laws (reread the first consideration again)
and
their courts and their police and their jails or prisons.

True but if you life is in danger what are you going to worry about first?


This started out about a flare gun being used as a weapon and drifted off
track
a little (as usual) The flare gun is not the ideal weapon but is a quick
and
available means of protecting yourself in some cases. Common sense should
dictate when and how to use it. Since this is a cruising group I assumed
we
were talking about off shore cruising????? I have spent over 14 yrs
cruising
central and south America and would not be without one sitting were I
could
grab it in a hurry if someone was boarding my boat without my permission.
I did
have that happen one morning when at anchor in Panama and it turned out to
be
undercover Drug agents from a fishing boat. (another weird story).

After I got out of the Marine Corps I spent 5 yrs as a police officer in
the
Los Angels area of Calif. so I am familiar with some of our laws, none of
which
prohibit you from having a flare gun. All countries are going to hold you
responsible for your use of it and anything else you use to defend
yourself
including your hands so you have to use good judgment.