On 1/24/12 9:07 PM, WaIIy wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:58:38 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:42:47 -0500, wrote:

and we need to not have our turds floating ashore in a protected marine
sanctuary.

===

Turds do not float ashore when procesed by a Type I MSD. They are
ground up into tiny particulates and then treated with chlorine to
destroy any pathogens, also removing odor and discoloration.

Why is that an issue?


Uhhhh, he doesn't use it. It's locked, remember?

Actually it is (was) broken.

Do you really think Neal is going to schlep chlorine to his boat in
order to have a clean discharge?


Yawn.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:28:50 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

And that is also what I experienced for whatever reason. Perhaps Rick
is using a different WAV player or possibly something went amiss in
the ZIP or upload process.

On a different topic, I thought that the transcript of Wilbur's court
hearing did a good job of pointing out the absurd situation that
boaters find themselves in when trying to comply with the law.

Someone, either Wilbur or a previous owner, spent significant money to
install a Type I MSD in an attempt to comply with the laws in effect
at that time. A Type I MSD in proper working order produces a
discharge equal to or better than a shore based municipal treatment
plant. That was all well and good until some later time when certain
individuals in government decided that no discharge at all would be
even better. Of course that totally defies logic when you consider
the relative proportion of municipal discharge versus boater
discharge. It also ignores the reality that most municipal treatment
plants are rourinely overwhelmed by storm drain runoff during heavy
rains, resulting in the discharge of millions of gallons of totally
untreated waste. The bottom line is that boaters have very little
political voice compared to municipalities. Boaters are presumed to
be wealthy and idle, and therefore fair game in the regulatory world
where bureaucrats most constantly enact new regulations to justify
their existence.

Collectively we all need to do a better job of staying in touch with
our elected representatives and making our voices heard. We also need
to cut back funding to those branches of government who are acting
irrationally, irresponsibly and contrary to our best interests


Re the WAV file. The only thing I can think of is that Win 7 has a
different format from earlier. Anyone that downloaded it have 7? I did
email a friend who has 7 this morning and asked him to check it. I
know it's no longer a problem with the MP3, but I just need to know
:-)


I remember, around 2002 I think, that a senator from Mass. and one
from LA. sponsered a bill to totally eliminate NDZ's. They looked at
the test data from the CG. The two Type I MSD's available far exceeded
the requirements of a bacterial count of 1,000 per 100 ML. One, the
Lectra/San, was a count of 0 and the other a count of 8.

Their bill was to set the requirement at 10 per 100 ML and eliminate
NDZ's altogether. Unfortunatley the bill just died from lack of
interest from the rest of the senate.

Municipal waste water treatment plants are held to the same 1,000 per
100 ML, but it seems they rarely acheive it. My older brother was a
waste water engineer and just had to test my Lectra/San. It came out
0. He was amazed and said he wished his plant could make even the
1,000. Later on, the city built a new and larger municipal plant and
he finally got his wish. For a while.

But even if the MSD did 1,000 and the munincipal plants did 1,000,
NDZ's don't make sense. The MSD is putting out the same as the
munincipal. Going to a holding tank, pumping out, treating, going into
the water are just a bunch more steps with the exact same result.

In the real world, the MSD puts cleaner stuff into the water.

Rick

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 06:50:14 -0600, I
wrote:


Re the WAV file. The only thing I can think of is that Win 7 has a
different format from earlier. Anyone that downloaded it have 7? I did
email a friend who has 7 this morning and asked him to check it. I
know it's no longer a problem with the MP3, but I just need to know
:-)

My friend got the same error, so I guess this is another
never-to-be-solved computer mystery!

Rick

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:42:47 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

and we need to not have our turds floating ashore in a protected
marine
sanctuary.

===

Turds do not float ashore when procesed by a Type I MSD. They are
ground up into tiny particulates and then treated with chlorine to
destroy any pathogens, also removing odor and discoloration.

Why is that an issue?





Exactly!

In the Keys the federal government mandated central sewage systems for
all residents and business as of 2010. Despite this, many communities
(such as the Village of Islands) have not complied and still most of the
business and residents use septic tanks and old rickety package plants
that leak sewage into the coral stratum where it leaches out into the
water. I'd guess probably half the Keys remain in non-compliance with
federal sewage disposal mandates.

Pump out your holding tank in the Village of Islands and your raw sewage
eventually ends up in the water. So, somebody tell me why discharging
treated sewage from a type I MSD is a crime when sending it ashore where
it can leach out raw into the environment is acceptable?

Wayne, I'm glad you at least see the stupidity of and the real reason
boaters are harassed. It's all about collecting fines and court costs.
Local and state government has that as their FIRST priority. I kept
track on morning I sat in court and between fines and court costs,
mostly for traffic citations, the state/county collected over 20,000
dollars - not bad for four hours work.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:07:08 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:58:38 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:42:47 -0500, WaIIy
wrote:

and we need to not have our turds floating ashore in a protected
marine
sanctuary.

===

Turds do not float ashore when procesed by a Type I MSD. They are
ground up into tiny particulates and then treated with chlorine to
destroy any pathogens, also removing odor and discoloration.

Why is that an issue?


Uhhhh, he doesn't use it. It's locked, remember?

Actually it is (was) broken.

Do you really think Neal is going to schlep chlorine to his boat in
order to have a clean discharge?

===

A Type I MSD produces its' own chlorine, no schlepping required.

His MSD was locked in order to be in compliance with the crazy laws.

This issue however is much bigger than what Wilbur does or does not
do.




Thanks for your rational thoughts, Wayne.

Wally seems just about as ignorant of the law as your typical, bully,
FWC officer. Every bit as arrogant and biased, too. Seems not to mind
putting himself on display as bitter, vindictive and incorrect. ROFLOL!
One wonders if he is a FWC officer himself??

Oh, Wilbur spent about $1,500 bucks recently to upgrade and install a
brand spanking new ElectroScan MSD (Defender has the best price) just
because he suspected the old system might be worn out to the point where
it no longer was treating sewage adequately (the Code of Federal
Regulations does have a section where discharge from type I and II MSD
can be tested but inspectors are few and far between and mostly check
type II systems that are installed on vessels larger than 65 feet). This
new system remains legal in all state waters in all states across the
country including no discharge zones. However, in a no-discharge zone,
the state statutes (based upon the Code of Federal Regulations) require
the discharge valve to be closed and secured. It's as simple as that,
yet the FWC chooses to go around harassing boaters who are in compliance
with all state and federal regulations expecting they will remain
ignorant, roll over, play dead and pay unwarranted fines.

It seems the FWC was trying to play their Catch-22 game with good old
Wilbur and lost. Now, they have egg on their faces. And, the word is
spreading fast thanks to the Internet. Boaters are getting sick and
tired of being treated like second-class citizens with leaky wallets.

Wilbur's vessel has been and is in complete compliance with the MSD
statutes. If the state wishes to cite Wilbur and other boaters similarly
equipped for an MSD violation, they'd best look forward to losing case
after case where boaters decide to stand up for their rights under the
statutes.

--
Sir Gregory

"Rick Morel" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:28:50 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

And that is also what I experienced for whatever reason. Perhaps Rick
is using a different WAV player or possibly something went amiss in
the ZIP or upload process.

On a different topic, I thought that the transcript of Wilbur's court
hearing did a good job of pointing out the absurd situation that
boaters find themselves in when trying to comply with the law.

Someone, either Wilbur or a previous owner, spent significant money to
install a Type I MSD in an attempt to comply with the laws in effect
at that time. A Type I MSD in proper working order produces a
discharge equal to or better than a shore based municipal treatment
plant. That was all well and good until some later time when certain
individuals in government decided that no discharge at all would be
even better. Of course that totally defies logic when you consider
the relative proportion of municipal discharge versus boater
discharge. It also ignores the reality that most municipal treatment
plants are rourinely overwhelmed by storm drain runoff during heavy
rains, resulting in the discharge of millions of gallons of totally
untreated waste. The bottom line is that boaters have very little
political voice compared to municipalities. Boaters are presumed to
be wealthy and idle, and therefore fair game in the regulatory world
where bureaucrats most constantly enact new regulations to justify
their existence.

Collectively we all need to do a better job of staying in touch with
our elected representatives and making our voices heard. We also need
to cut back funding to those branches of government who are acting
irrationally, irresponsibly and contrary to our best interests


Re the WAV file. The only thing I can think of is that Win 7 has a
different format from earlier. Anyone that downloaded it have 7? I did
email a friend who has 7 this morning and asked him to check it. I
know it's no longer a problem with the MP3, but I just need to know
:-)


I remember, around 2002 I think, that a senator from Mass. and one
from LA. sponsered a bill to totally eliminate NDZ's. They looked at
the test data from the CG. The two Type I MSD's available far exceeded
the requirements of a bacterial count of 1,000 per 100 ML. One, the
Lectra/San, was a count of 0 and the other a count of 8.

Their bill was to set the requirement at 10 per 100 ML and eliminate
NDZ's altogether. Unfortunatley the bill just died from lack of
interest from the rest of the senate.

Municipal waste water treatment plants are held to the same 1,000 per
100 ML, but it seems they rarely acheive it. My older brother was a
waste water engineer and just had to test my Lectra/San. It came out
0. He was amazed and said he wished his plant could make even the
1,000. Later on, the city built a new and larger municipal plant and
he finally got his wish. For a while.

But even if the MSD did 1,000 and the munincipal plants did 1,000,
NDZ's don't make sense. The MSD is putting out the same as the
munincipal. Going to a holding tank, pumping out, treating, going into
the water are just a bunch more steps with the exact same result.

In the real world, the MSD puts cleaner stuff into the water.

Rick



Excellent reply, Rick. Thank you very much. It shows the landlubber
hypocrisy the way they sit ashore with an antiquated sewage system that
pollutes the environment more often and more extensively than if every
recreational boater bucketed raw sewage overboard yet they arrogantly
refuse to understand their hypocrisy. And, when mandated to put their
dysfunctional, land-based septic tanks in compliance, they balked and
had their lawyers tie up in the courts mandated upgrades for years and
when finally forced to comply after a five-year extension was granted
them, then they want tolls put on the road into the Keys so tourists
will pay for the ever-escalating cost of their personal responsibility
of getting their toilets in compliance caused by their putting off the
inevitable.

Oh, BTW, the state of Florida just rejected the toll-for-sewers on US-1
into the Keys saying toll money all must be used to pay for roads - not
sewage infrastructure. Home owners, isn't it time you manned up and got
your '****' together. Isn't it time you stopped being such hypocrites?


Wilbur Hubbard

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:22:41 -0600, Rick Morel
wrote:

Here's the MP3 version. It came out to 11.1 MB. Again in a ZIP file.


http://www.morelr.com/recordingmp3.zip


I can put the original CD up with the player. It's about 40 MB.

Rick

===

That one (the MP3) is fine.

Thank you Rick and thank you Wilbur.



You're welcome and I also thank you, Rick. If I write a letter to the
editor of Southwinds magazine do I have your permission to include the
link to the MP3? They might wish to publish it and it might get a lot of
hits.


Wilbur Hubbard

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:44:52 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:22:41 -0600, Rick Morel
wrote:

Here's the MP3 version. It came out to 11.1 MB. Again in a ZIP file.


http://www.morelr.com/recordingmp3.zip


I can put the original CD up with the player. It's about 40 MB.

Rick

===

That one (the MP3) is fine.

Thank you Rick and thank you Wilbur.



You're welcome and I also thank you, Rick. If I write a letter to the
editor of Southwinds magazine do I have your permission to include the
link to the MP3? They might wish to publish it and it might get a lot of
hits.


Wilbur Hubbard



Sure. I'll leave it there for a while.

Rick

"Rick Morel" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:44:52 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:22:41 -0600, Rick Morel
wrote:

Here's the MP3 version. It came out to 11.1 MB. Again in a ZIP file.


http://www.morelr.com/recordingmp3.zip


I can put the original CD up with the player. It's about 40 MB.

Rick

===

That one (the MP3) is fine.

Thank you Rick and thank you Wilbur.



You're welcome and I also thank you, Rick. If I write a letter to the
editor of Southwinds magazine do I have your permission to include the
link to the MP3? They might wish to publish it and it might get a lot
of
hits.

Sure. I'll leave it there for a while.

Rick



Thanks. I'm sending a letter to the editor to Southwinds magazine soon.
I'll include the link for the Editor (Steve Morell coincidentally) to
listen to. Southwinds has letters just about every month from boaters
that the FWC abuses.


Wilbur Hubbard

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:51:49 -0500, " Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:07:08 -0500, WaIIy
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:58:38 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:42:47 -0500, WaIIy
wrote:

and we need to not have our turds floating ashore in a protected
marine
sanctuary.

===

Turds do not float ashore when procesed by a Type I MSD. They are
ground up into tiny particulates and then treated with chlorine to
destroy any pathogens, also removing odor and discoloration.

Why is that an issue?


Uhhhh, he doesn't use it. It's locked, remember?

Actually it is (was) broken.

Do you really think Neal is going to schlep chlorine to his boat in
order to have a clean discharge?

===

A Type I MSD produces its' own chlorine, no schlepping required.

His MSD was locked in order to be in compliance with the crazy laws.

This issue however is much bigger than what Wilbur does or does not
do.




Thanks for your rational thoughts, Wayne.

Wally seems just about as ignorant of the law as your typical, bully,
FWC officer. Every bit as arrogant and biased, too. Seems not to mind
putting himself on display as bitter, vindictive and incorrect.
ROFLOL!
One wonders if he is a FWC officer himself??

Oh, Wilbur spent about $1,500 bucks recently to upgrade and install a
brand spanking new ElectroScan MSD (Defender has the best price) just
because he suspected the old system might be worn out to the point
where
it no longer was treating sewage adequately (the Code of Federal
Regulations does have a section where discharge from type I and II MSD
can be tested but inspectors are few and far between and mostly check
type II systems that are installed on vessels larger than 65 feet).
This
new system remains legal in all state waters in all states across the
country including no discharge zones. However, in a no-discharge zone,
the state statutes (based upon the Code of Federal Regulations)
require
the discharge valve to be closed and secured. It's as simple as that,
yet the FWC chooses to go around harassing boaters who are in
compliance
with all state and federal regulations expecting they will remain
ignorant, roll over, play dead and pay unwarranted fines.

It seems the FWC was trying to play their Catch-22 game with good old
Wilbur and lost. Now, they have egg on their faces. And, the word is
spreading fast thanks to the Internet. Boaters are getting sick and
tired of being treated like second-class citizens with leaky wallets.

Wilbur's vessel has been and is in complete compliance with the MSD
statutes. If the state wishes to cite Wilbur and other boaters
similarly
equipped for an MSD violation, they'd best look forward to losing case
after case where boaters decide to stand up for their rights under the
statutes.

I heard you say twice that you use your boat "several" times a year.
You're not a boater, you're a poseur.

You didn't "suspect" your terlet was broken. It's been broken for
years, give me a break.

You folded and fixed your terlet because you now have a target on your
back.

No matter, you're still ****ting directly in the water and
rationalizing
it.



You sure seem to delight in exchanging facts with speculation. But, then
again, this is typical, priggish prattle from an insular but risibly
feckless dullard.

PUTZ!

Wilbur Hubbard