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Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 10:55:55 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 23:43:31 -0600, CaveLamb wrote: Jessica B wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:20:12 -0600, CaveLamb wrote: Jessica B wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:47:36 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:39:35 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message ... snippage Given that I have lived for more than half of my life in Asia I wonder where you came up with your misconception that I ever intended to go further. You expect me to believe your goal was a Bangkok backwater? Yah, right! But of course you don't have misconceptions you simply make it up, unfortunately your blathering is simply "ignorance in action'. Wilbur: The proper length for your dinghy oars is short enough to fit inside the boat. ONE of the attributes of a proper-length dinghy oar is that it fits into the length of the dinghy. Get a clue and stop twisting my words. I hadn't believed that you were actually as stupid as you just proved yourself. I guess that proves that you should never underrate your opponents abilities. The "attribute" of an oar is that it reaches the water..... (Oars originated for, and are still used today, as a devise to propel a boat (through the water). Certainly it may have other attributes such as weight, shape of blade, material of which it is made, etc, but fitting inside the boat is not one of them. Your argument is about as logical as saying that the mast should not be longer then the length of the cockpit....because that is where you want to keep it when you aren't using the sails. Cheers, Bruce Ok... dumb question time... if the oar doesn't fit in the boat, what the heck do you do with it when you're done using it? If you just leave it hanging out, it seems to me it would get torn off or damaged. Mine are in the oar bag. Ok.. so, what happens when you get to the beach or where you're going? Seems to me that you'd want to keep them in the boat and not sticking out? Why does a couple of feet of oar sticking out of the boat matter? Best to lay them lengthwise and sticking out the bow. that way when you go visiting they sort of fend your dinghy off that hard ol' fiberglass. Cheers, Bruce Wrong again, Brucie Poo. I'll repeat a previous post lest you ignore the original which proves you to be a pretend sailor. Do you know of the highly-respected cruising sailor named Eric Hiscock? Certainly, you would have to admit that Sir Eric knew a thing or two about dinghies and dinghy oars. Here is what he had to say about them in "Cruising Under Sail" page 498: "Oars ought to be as long as possible, provided they will lie within the dinghy when not in use . . ." Now, run along and attempt to impress the ignorant dock types and bar types because you fail to impress those of us who actually sail and remain sober enough to think straight. Wilbur Hubbard Sir Eric may well have said/written that, however, given that Hiscock was writing in an earlier time ("Wandering Under Sail" -1939) and who died in 1986 I suggest that he was not writing about a rubber dinghy which is a far different design from the small rowing boat that was likely what Hiscock had experience with. Now go and ask anyone who rows a boat on a daily basis. They will simply laugh at you and row away as you have just exposed yourself as yet another Sunday Sailor who (in spite of having read Hiscock) still knows nothing of boats. Just another example of your real knowledge about boats and sailing. Cheers, Bruce |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 10:43:26 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:39:35 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message ... snippage Given that I have lived for more than half of my life in Asia I wonder where you came up with your misconception that I ever intended to go further. You expect me to believe your goal was a Bangkok backwater? Yah, right! But of course you don't have misconceptions you simply make it up, unfortunately your blathering is simply "ignorance in action'. Wilbur: The proper length for your dinghy oars is short enough to fit inside the boat. ONE of the attributes of a proper-length dinghy oar is that it fits into the length of the dinghy. Get a clue and stop twisting my words. I hadn't believed that you were actually as stupid as you just proved yourself. I guess that proves that you should never underrate your opponents abilities. The "attribute" of an oar is that it reaches the water..... (Oars originated for, and are still used today, as a devise to propel a boat (through the water). Certainly it may have other attributes such as weight, shape of blade, material of which it is made, etc, but fitting inside the boat is not one of them. Your argument is about as logical as saying that the mast should not be longer then the length of the cockpit....because that is where you want to keep it when you aren't using the sails. Cheers, Bruce OK, Brucie-poo, you just are not the authority you seem to think you are and you are definitely ill-informed as to the matter of length of oar. Do you know of the highly-respected cruising sailor named Eric Hiscock? Certainly, you would have to admit that Sir Eric knows a thing or two about dinghies and dinghy oars. Here is what he has to say about them in "Cruising Under Sail" page 498: "Oars ought to be as long as possible, provided they will lie within the dinghy when not in use . . ." Uh huh! Just as I said. There, take THAT and ruminate upon your abject ignorance and laughable arrogance. Wilbur Hubbard I think you are repeating yourself as I just answered your first message on that subject. Cheers, Bruce |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 10:52:09 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "CaveLamb" wrote in message ... snip Why does a couple of feet of oar sticking out of the boat matter? Spoken like a clueless dolt! An oar or oars sticking out of a dinghy can catch under the dinghy dock on a rising tide and capsize the boat. Duh! Just one of the many hazards that are eliminated with oars that fit inside the length of the dinghy. Perhaps some of you pretend sailors need to sail once in a while to learn how things really go down? Wilbur Hubbard Dinghy Dock? And you've spent all this time nattering on about Marinas and now you admit to anchoring off to avoid paying dockage and then sneaking into the dinghy dock?? Cheers, Bruce |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 12:50:15 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Jessica B" wrote in message .. . snip Actually, it's even better than that. His boss and I are sort of lunch buddies going on a couple of years... it's kind of a long story, but the short version is that I was on this commercial inspection project in full "inspector" regalia (hard hat, gloves, steel-toe boots - all of which were required, but I rarely go on these sites any more).. anyway.. he ran over my foot in the dirt lot (no damage, just some bruising) and he's still feels bad about it. I didn't go on workers comp, which meant I didn't have to fill out a report, so you get it. So, we're having lunch and I mention about stickers on vehicles... isn't that against policy? Well, no, it isn't as long as it's tasteful. So, I said, would it be ok if I put a Support our Troops on the bumper... no problem. It's going on tomorrow. I love it! So, what are you going to say to your boss then he tries to write you up for putting the sticker back on? "You'd better talk to YOUR boss because he told me it was OK." That'll larn him! It was perfect. I actually just walked in there before I left (leave at 3pm), and sort of casually said, hey about that sticker thing... I was talking to Greg and he seemed ok with it, but I can remove it if you really think it's a problem. So, he says, oh yeah, Greg said something to me about the (his Mystery Spot) sticker, but didn't say to take it off. So I guess just don't worry about it. (I don't think anyone complained. I think he just had a hair up his butt about something and I happened to be there.) snipped some more Blinky? I've not heard that term... for a Ham radio?? That's "Binky". You know one of those little fake nipples mothers let their babies suck on so they don't cry. http://www.drugstore.com/products/pr...ELAID=61283337 Ah.. ok. Never heard it called that. No kids and I limit my time with my nieces. :) snip Funny that you mentioned the flat-screened TVs. You'd be surprised at how often a discussion of flat-screened TVs comes up here. It's so ludicrous reading so-called sailors REAL priorities - television. Some of them even have satellite receivers aboard. All the more reason for them to run smelly and noisy generators multiple hours each and every day. Anything but sailing yet they claim to be sailors. Yeah, I just don't get it. There are so many things to see and do... how about some real life! Don't hold your breath . . . They don't call them 'sheeple' for nothing. I didn't even have to say PMS! They just assumed. But, you can only get away with it once a month provided they have halfway decent memories. ;-) That's true, but that "once a month" could be a week! I know some girls who would remove said pound of flesh if someone looks at them the wrong way. We do good things most of the time. The commercial people mostly get it. Don't f*ck with me or your life will be a living hell. (Actually, they seem to listen to me more than the residential customers.) The residential ones think they know everything! I had one a couple of weeks ago.. a diy job. The guy hooked up furness fine, but never attached the ducting that goes from the air intake to the unit... a good inch gap - so it was sucking in air from God knows where, so the chief red-flagged it. I found it, so I got "blamed" by the customer. I said, hey, would you like me to look around for some more things? You should get yourself a nice pair of black, shiney jackboots and a riding crop - really intimidate them. LOL! Heh... Well, I prefer to go down the easy road first. I don't need the stress. I mean if they want to blow up their house, all their possessions, kids, wife, car... fine with me, as long as I told em and wrote it down. Three... whoa! It must take a lot to bring up the big ones... even just 10 ft. of chain isn't light. Even with the chain they only weigh about 35 pounds each. That's not much really. Breaking them out of the bottom, if the holding is good, is the most work but usually the boat does all that work. Just snub up the chain until it's straight up and down and let a few waves roll under the hull and the boat pulls the anchor out of the mud or sand. Well, heck! Even I can lift 35 lbs! Snub? Ok... like shorten it, so you're pulling until you're right over it. Got it. The guy with the Catalina had this monster-looking anchor, but we didn't use it. The eyes bigger than their stomach crowd with their forty and fifty foot boats must use anchors bigger and heavier than they can manually weigh - fifty or sixty pound anchors and lots of heavy chain - so they are forced to use windlasses which use electricity to pull up the ground tackle. These use tons of electricity and are very heavy and require heavy wire because of the high amperage loads. So, where does all that electricity come from? You guessed it, it comes from smelly, pollution machine diesels generating electricity at all hours. Overly large sailboats are really stupid, IMO. Any time a boat is so large that one strong man cannot manually work the various systems, it tells me it's an exercise in mental retardation on behalf of the owner. Yes... I think he had all of it chain or well all I could see. It went into a hatch, so I don't know. There was definitely chain though. |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:12:37 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message .. . snip This from a bloke that brags a photo of himself sitting in a tiny boat petting a pussy? A kitty cat is a proper addition to a sailing yacht as they will eliminate any mouse or rat that might come aboard from who knows where. there is room for you, and a rat, on the yellow dinghy? With pretensions of being a political pundit now? Truly the land of the fruits and the nuts. I have always represented a voice of conservative reason. As for being a sailor both Joe and I have at least some reason to call ourselves a "sailor" as we have both sailed somewhere. Willie-the Poo, conversely, has never sailed anywhere and rates himself an expert. Wrong! Both of you are demonstrable failures. Only in your liberal minds, where trying is more important than succeeding, can you fool yourselves into believing that, since you tried, then your failures are secondary. Talk about a warped way of thinking. In the real world, trying is something everybody must do. Trying is not the goal but only represents the first step towards the goal. If one falls down after the first step one should not pat himself on the back and say, "Oh well, that didn't go so well but I'm successful at walking because I tried." WRONG! If one falls down after the first step, one should say, "Well, I'm sure a failure at that. But, I can learn from failing so what have I learned so the next step I take doesn't result in failure all over again?" Errr, Willie, I'm here in Thailand, and you are still anchored in Florida? And somehow this indicates that you are the sailorman and I'm not..... Something wrong with your logic I'm afraid. You and Joe, being liberal drones, don't think this way. You equate trying with success. You have set the bar way too low and will always remain failures because of your liberal thinking that try = success. You are incapable of learning from failure because you don't and won't man up to your failures. Such an untenable belief system. I just couldn't live like that. Liberal drones? what ever gave you that idea? I certainly would like to see your evidence to support that statement.. Or did you read it in a book? Wilbur Hubbard Cheers, Bruce |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:12:37 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message .. . snip This from a bloke that brags a photo of himself sitting in a tiny boat petting a pussy? A kitty cat is a proper addition to a sailing yacht as they will eliminate any mouse or rat that might come aboard from who knows where. Do you have a kitty?! I love cats, but don't have any pets right now. With pretensions of being a political pundit now? Truly the land of the fruits and the nuts. I have always represented a voice of conservative reason. I think if you left off the word conservative, you would have said it all. :) Seriously though... I just don't get this liberal nonsense, especially what goes on in a place like this. How about some reasoned approach to finance?? Hello? As for being a sailor both Joe and I have at least some reason to call ourselves a "sailor" as we have both sailed somewhere. Willie-the Poo, conversely, has never sailed anywhere and rates himself an expert. Wrong! Both of you are demonstrable failures. Only in your liberal minds, where trying is more important than succeeding, can you fool yourselves into believing that, since you tried, then your failures are secondary. Talk about a warped way of thinking. In the real world, trying is something everybody must do. Trying is not the goal but only represents the first step towards the goal. If one falls down after the first step one should not pat himself on the back and say, "Oh well, that didn't go so well but I'm successful at walking because I tried." WRONG! If one falls down after the first step, one should say, "Well, I'm sure a failure at that. But, I can learn from failing so what have I learned so the next step I take doesn't result in failure all over again?" You got a get back up and try again. That's my experience anyway. You and Joe, being liberal drones, don't think this way. You equate trying with success. You have set the bar way too low and will always remain failures because of your liberal thinking that try = success. You are incapable of learning from failure because you don't and won't man up to your failures. Such an untenable belief system. I just couldn't live like that. Wilbur Hubbard |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:33:07 +0700, Bruce
wrote: rOn Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:35:45 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:34:52 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:39:35 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message m... snippage Given that I have lived for more than half of my life in Asia I wonder where you came up with your misconception that I ever intended to go further. You expect me to believe your goal was a Bangkok backwater? Yah, right! But of course you don't have misconceptions you simply make it up, unfortunately your blathering is simply "ignorance in action'. Wilbur: The proper length for your dinghy oars is short enough to fit inside the boat. ONE of the attributes of a proper-length dinghy oar is that it fits into the length of the dinghy. Get a clue and stop twisting my words. snip And, whatever happened to your kill file? It seems to have as many holes in it as "Red Cloud's" transom. LOL! Wilbur Hubbard AS I previously mentioned, Willie doesn't have a clue and simply makes things up. I do not keep a boat in Bangkok (Willie (the master mariner obviously thinks "Bangkok" is a country), never have. The boat is presently located at Phuket Island, Thailand. Previously it was at Langkawi Island, Kedeh, Malaysia, and before that in the Singapore Straits, where I anchored for three years. I could regress even more but why bother as Willie-the master mariner has never been over here, knows nothing about it, and I might as well be writing Bucuresti, Trieste, or Vladivostok for all he knows. Cheers, Bruce Please don't regress! I think you mean digress. regress ~ noun rare 1. the reasoning involved when you assume the conclusion is true and reason backward to the evidence. Cheers, Bruce That's probably the reason it sounded so, ummm... foolish. |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:17:17 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message .. . snip And you certainly should know - Willie-the great Walmart Thief. Urban legend. Returning defective storage batteries for warranty exchange is not theft. Wilbur Hubbard Nope. Referring your Internet posted, detailed, instructions about stealing a bottle of booze from Walmart.... You have a very selective memory. Cheers, Bruce |
Cannibal
On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 23:43:31 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote: Jessica B wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:20:12 -0600, CaveLamb wrote: Jessica B wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:47:36 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:39:35 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message ... snippage Given that I have lived for more than half of my life in Asia I wonder where you came up with your misconception that I ever intended to go further. You expect me to believe your goal was a Bangkok backwater? Yah, right! But of course you don't have misconceptions you simply make it up, unfortunately your blathering is simply "ignorance in action'. Wilbur: The proper length for your dinghy oars is short enough to fit inside the boat. ONE of the attributes of a proper-length dinghy oar is that it fits into the length of the dinghy. Get a clue and stop twisting my words. I hadn't believed that you were actually as stupid as you just proved yourself. I guess that proves that you should never underrate your opponents abilities. The "attribute" of an oar is that it reaches the water..... (Oars originated for, and are still used today, as a devise to propel a boat (through the water). Certainly it may have other attributes such as weight, shape of blade, material of which it is made, etc, but fitting inside the boat is not one of them. Your argument is about as logical as saying that the mast should not be longer then the length of the cockpit....because that is where you want to keep it when you aren't using the sails. Cheers, Bruce Ok... dumb question time... if the oar doesn't fit in the boat, what the heck do you do with it when you're done using it? If you just leave it hanging out, it seems to me it would get torn off or damaged. Mine are in the oar bag. Ok.. so, what happens when you get to the beach or where you're going? Seems to me that you'd want to keep them in the boat and not sticking out? Why does a couple of feet of oar sticking out of the boat matter? Well, someone could get snagged on it or it could get snagged on something. Do you really need that extra couple of feet to power up? |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 10:52:09 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "CaveLamb" wrote in message ... snip Why does a couple of feet of oar sticking out of the boat matter? Spoken like a clueless dolt! An oar or oars sticking out of a dinghy can catch under the dinghy dock on a rising tide and capsize the boat. Duh! Just one of the many hazards that are eliminated with oars that fit inside the length of the dinghy. Perhaps some of you pretend sailors need to sail once in a while to learn how things really go down? Wilbur Hubbard Or, even just scratch the sides... You could put fenders to protect the boat from the dinghy, but they wouldn't protect it from the oars. They might even get broken off. |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:57:52 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote: Bruce, I think you are right about him/her. His/her mental masturbations are sort of interesting - for a while. But it quickly becomes tiresome. From one of Rolf Harris' songs: He's mighty like a rose He wears his sister's clothes We don't know to call him But we think he's one of those Political correctness in action. I believe that y'all have that back there. Cheers, Bruce |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:41:16 +0700, Bruce
wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 20:26:37 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:20:12 -0600, CaveLamb wrote: Jessica B wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:47:36 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:39:35 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message ... snippage Given that I have lived for more than half of my life in Asia I wonder where you came up with your misconception that I ever intended to go further. You expect me to believe your goal was a Bangkok backwater? Yah, right! But of course you don't have misconceptions you simply make it up, unfortunately your blathering is simply "ignorance in action'. Wilbur: The proper length for your dinghy oars is short enough to fit inside the boat. ONE of the attributes of a proper-length dinghy oar is that it fits into the length of the dinghy. Get a clue and stop twisting my words. I hadn't believed that you were actually as stupid as you just proved yourself. I guess that proves that you should never underrate your opponents abilities. The "attribute" of an oar is that it reaches the water..... (Oars originated for, and are still used today, as a devise to propel a boat (through the water). Certainly it may have other attributes such as weight, shape of blade, material of which it is made, etc, but fitting inside the boat is not one of them. Your argument is about as logical as saying that the mast should not be longer then the length of the cockpit....because that is where you want to keep it when you aren't using the sails. Cheers, Bruce Ok... dumb question time... if the oar doesn't fit in the boat, what the heck do you do with it when you're done using it? If you just leave it hanging out, it seems to me it would get torn off or damaged. Mine are in the oar bag. Ok.. so, what happens when you get to the beach or where you're going? Seems to me that you'd want to keep them in the boat and not sticking out? Ever wonder what the Kayak boys do with their paddles that are about 7 ft. long, and them with a cockpit that is an 18 inch hole in the top of the boat. Cheers, Bruce Sure... but you're not talking about kayaks that aren't in the water behind a boat are you? If so, you'd take the paddle out and put it somewhere, right? |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:38:40 +0700, Bruce
wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:37:26 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:47:36 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:39:35 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message m... snippage Given that I have lived for more than half of my life in Asia I wonder where you came up with your misconception that I ever intended to go further. You expect me to believe your goal was a Bangkok backwater? Yah, right! But of course you don't have misconceptions you simply make it up, unfortunately your blathering is simply "ignorance in action'. Wilbur: The proper length for your dinghy oars is short enough to fit inside the boat. ONE of the attributes of a proper-length dinghy oar is that it fits into the length of the dinghy. Get a clue and stop twisting my words. I hadn't believed that you were actually as stupid as you just proved yourself. I guess that proves that you should never underrate your opponents abilities. The "attribute" of an oar is that it reaches the water..... (Oars originated for, and are still used today, as a devise to propel a boat (through the water). Certainly it may have other attributes such as weight, shape of blade, material of which it is made, etc, but fitting inside the boat is not one of them. Your argument is about as logical as saying that the mast should not be longer then the length of the cockpit....because that is where you want to keep it when you aren't using the sails. Cheers, Bruce Ok... dumb question time... if the oar doesn't fit in the boat, what the heck do you do with it when you're done using it? If you just leave it hanging out, it seems to me it would get torn off or damaged. Go down to the harbor and have a look at any row boats that may be around... or visit a collage and have a look in their boat houses... Or google "correct oar length". Do you see any of them recommend that ability to store inside the boat as an important factor in sizing them. Kind of like special ordering an outboard engine with a 12 inch shaft... cause that is the size of the locker you plan to store it in. Cheers, Bruce This was the first link for dinghy oar length with a google search... http://www.answers.com/topic/dinghy-oars "the typical yacht tender of 7 to 9 feet (2.1 to 2.7 m), they should be about 6 feet (1.8 m) long" |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 10:48:35 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Jessica B" wrote in message .. . snip Ok... dumb question time... if the oar doesn't fit in the boat, what the heck do you do with it when you're done using it? If you just leave it hanging out, it seems to me it would get torn off or damaged. Dumb question? Hardly. Smarter by far than these pretend sailors. Ha ha. You know more about it intuitively than Bruce, stuck at the Bangkok dock, does. See my post in reply to Bruce's arrogant but ignorant contentions quoting Sir Eric Hiscock, a world famous cruising sailor whose writing supports your perceptive observation. You are a credit to your gender, mam. Wilbur Hubbard Well, I think you're right, and I think I'm right too... I just posted a link from the first Google hit. |
Cannibal
On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 23:49:45 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote: If that's the case, then how could it do damage to a boat that's sailing offshore? Second, it seems like you should be able to handle high winds. Wouldn't you be prepared for that? Why are you sleeping when there's a storm going on? Believe it or not, sailing can be very tiring. After a while the body is depleted and you just shut down. Ok, but wouldn't you have someone to take over while you sleep? If you get that tired, then maybe you need a shorter trip in better weather! My boat sails 6 or 7 knots. Weather can move in many times faster than that. With modern weather forecasting we can pick our "window". But that's no guarantee that the weather guessers will be right The only perfectly safe way is to not go at all. And that's just not acceptable. The oldest prayer at sea still applies... Dear Lord, my boat is so small, and Your ocean so big... Most of the boats abandoned while racing are later found floating - intact. They were abandoned because the crew was exhausted to the point of having no other choice. No other choice than what? If the boat is still floating, why did the people leave? The crew is almost ALWAYS the limiting factor. I believe you. Richard... but you and your boat should have a margin of ability several multiples of what "normal" wind would be wouldn't you? Does a squall last so long that you would give out after a few hours? If so, perhaps it's best not to go... as you said. |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:01:50 +0000, Justin C
wrote: In article , Jessica B wrote: No other choice than what? If the boat is still floating, why did the people leave? Try this on for size, and then Google for participants own reports: URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Fastnet_race I don't believe the people in this race were not prepared, nor the boats in poor condition. The crews were just exhausted, and in fear for their lives. Further reading: Sydney to Hobart, 1998. Justin. From what I read, most of the deaths happened due to abandoning the boats. Maybe if they had stayed with the boat.... ? |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 19:33:51 +0700, Bruce
wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:05:49 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:32:07 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:45:51 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:07:49 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:33:15 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:02:08 +0700, Bruce wrote: much snipped Sorry, but I didn't understand even 1/2 of this. Maybe one should not go sailing if you can't deal with the issues that come up, short of being run over by a tanker or something? Sounds pretty simple. Can you deal with a tsunami arrives with no warning and kills some 5,000 people in your immediate area? A 60 MPH squall that hits you at night? Of course not. A couple of things occur to me. First, I thought a tsunami was only dangerous near land. If that's the case, then how could it do damage to a boat that's sailing offshore? Second, it seems like you should be able to handle high winds. Wouldn't you be prepared for that? Why are you sleeping when there's a storm going on? snipped. A tsunami, or any other wave is simply water in motion. Depending on the length and speed of the wave, the amount of vertical movement is generally dependant on the depth of the water it is moving in. So you are correct to say that in deep water they don't have much height, but simply saying "off shore" isn't a sufficient description as you can be quite a distance "off shore" and still have relatively shallow water. in among the S.W. Thai waters, where the Tsunami did the most damage, waters are generally less then 100 ft. A "Sumatra", which might be called a line squall in other parts of the world, is a rather brisk wind that travels fairly rapidly and if at night generally is bit of a shock. In the case I mentioned I was sailing north along the E. Coast of Malaysia on a fine moonlit night with about 5 K. wind. Then, within only a few minutes it was blowing 60 miles an hour for about an hour. As in the case of the Tsunami, it has been stated that it is the worst natural disaster in Thai history. A bit hard to plan for. Squalls occur, frequently with no warning, certainly not something you can specifically prepare for other then in a general way that you know it might blow a bit. And I don't remember saying I was asleep when the squall hit. Cheers, Bruce Not saying you were asleep. Sorry if I implied that. As to water depth, in the middle of the ocean there's no dispute right? No damage. So, you're claim is that in 100 ft of water, the violence would be great? I recall hearing? reading? about people in their sailboat in the harbor who rode it out by getting going, then rescued a bunch of people. Seems to me you're safer moving and away from the marina, which was my point. You're saying you can't see a squall coming? You can't be prepared to deal with it? It just happens and there's nothing that can be done? Seems wrong to me.... |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:17:17 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message .. . snip And you certainly should know - Willie-the great Walmart Thief. Urban legend. Returning defective storage batteries for warranty exchange is not theft. Wilbur Hubbard What's wrong with a warranty exchange?? I don't get it. Wal-Mart is pretty good about taking stuff back.. Home Depot took back cabinet I bought that basically fell apart. All I needed was the receipt. |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:28:18 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Jessica B" wrote in message .. . snip Whoa... you're a captain? That's so cool! That says a lot about you... you have to pass all sorts of background checks if it's anything like getting even a local government job like mine. Thanks, I have an excellent security background having had a Top Secret clearance for security work as a military policeman in the U.S. Army This is why I am highly insulted being subjected to a government bureaucrat, dog and pony, jump-through-the-hoops show. This is why I just said, NO! I've never been arrested for anything. Never even had a speeding ticket. I can even produce a valid birth certificate. Few, if any of the people who would have me jump through hoops can claim the same. And, this in the name of anti-terrorism, which is as much as accusing ME of being a terrorist threat, while the government ignores actual terrorists and cries and agitates for releasing them from Guantanamo Bay. Ludicrous! Yes, and don't listen to Bruce, stuck at the Bangkok dock. He's just envious of my greater qualifications. I qualified for and was duly issued a USCG, Master of Steam or Motor Vessels of not more than 25 gross tons upon near coastal waters; also operator of uninspected passenger vessels as defined in 46 U.S.C. 2101 (42) upon near coastal waters not to exceed 100 miles offshore, which is way more than Brucie-Poo ever accomplished. Don't be fooled by those envious people like Joe who claim that near coastal is less than open ocean for everybody knows near coastal is where the hazardous sailing takes place. Open ocean is a joke and the realm of autopilots. That's where the rocks are... So, if you stay away from the rocks, then you have one less thing to worry about I guess. Every story my friend tells of mishap is in and around the marina or surrounding area. I don't get what's going on with the government... all this money coming in, and the whole infrastructure seems to be falling apart. I don't mind a few rules, but come on. Especially when it comes to paperwork. You've already been through the checks, you've already passed your exam (or whatever), so give the individual a break already. Job security for govt. pencil pushers! (no offense, not meaning you because you actually get out of the office and do productive work). Thanks! I have to write up stuff, but it's from actionable items... red-flags, resolutions, follow-up recommendations. I'm sick of all the money that seems to be frittered away on endlessly studying the mating habits of magpies or whatever. I like Captain.. as you say if it's nothing more than to annoy some people. heh A most wise and excellent choice, my dear. Wilbur Hubbard |
Cannibal
Bruce wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:57:52 -0600, CaveLamb wrote: Bruce, I think you are right about him/her. His/her mental masturbations are sort of interesting - for a while. But it quickly becomes tiresome. From one of Rolf Harris' songs: He's mighty like a rose He wears his sister's clothes We don't know to call him But we think he's one of those Political correctness in action. I believe that y'all have that back there. Cheers, Bruce Yup. -- Richard Lamb email me: web site: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:58:52 -0800, Jessica B
wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:41:16 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 20:26:37 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:20:12 -0600, CaveLamb wrote: Jessica B wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:47:36 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:39:35 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message ... snippage Given that I have lived for more than half of my life in Asia I wonder where you came up with your misconception that I ever intended to go further. You expect me to believe your goal was a Bangkok backwater? Yah, right! But of course you don't have misconceptions you simply make it up, unfortunately your blathering is simply "ignorance in action'. Wilbur: The proper length for your dinghy oars is short enough to fit inside the boat. ONE of the attributes of a proper-length dinghy oar is that it fits into the length of the dinghy. Get a clue and stop twisting my words. I hadn't believed that you were actually as stupid as you just proved yourself. I guess that proves that you should never underrate your opponents abilities. The "attribute" of an oar is that it reaches the water..... (Oars originated for, and are still used today, as a devise to propel a boat (through the water). Certainly it may have other attributes such as weight, shape of blade, material of which it is made, etc, but fitting inside the boat is not one of them. Your argument is about as logical as saying that the mast should not be longer then the length of the cockpit....because that is where you want to keep it when you aren't using the sails. Cheers, Bruce Ok... dumb question time... if the oar doesn't fit in the boat, what the heck do you do with it when you're done using it? If you just leave it hanging out, it seems to me it would get torn off or damaged. Mine are in the oar bag. Ok.. so, what happens when you get to the beach or where you're going? Seems to me that you'd want to keep them in the boat and not sticking out? Ever wonder what the Kayak boys do with their paddles that are about 7 ft. long, and them with a cockpit that is an 18 inch hole in the top of the boat. Cheers, Bruce Sure... but you're not talking about kayaks that aren't in the water behind a boat are you? If so, you'd take the paddle out and put it somewhere, right? Nope, I was talking about real kayaks, not those plastic things. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayak for pictures. And if you want to take the paddle off the kayak it can also be done for the dinghy... Cheers, Bruce |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 17:01:49 -0800, Jessica B
wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:38:40 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:37:26 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:47:36 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:39:35 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message om... snippage Given that I have lived for more than half of my life in Asia I wonder where you came up with your misconception that I ever intended to go further. You expect me to believe your goal was a Bangkok backwater? Yah, right! But of course you don't have misconceptions you simply make it up, unfortunately your blathering is simply "ignorance in action'. Wilbur: The proper length for your dinghy oars is short enough to fit inside the boat. ONE of the attributes of a proper-length dinghy oar is that it fits into the length of the dinghy. Get a clue and stop twisting my words. I hadn't believed that you were actually as stupid as you just proved yourself. I guess that proves that you should never underrate your opponents abilities. The "attribute" of an oar is that it reaches the water..... (Oars originated for, and are still used today, as a devise to propel a boat (through the water). Certainly it may have other attributes such as weight, shape of blade, material of which it is made, etc, but fitting inside the boat is not one of them. Your argument is about as logical as saying that the mast should not be longer then the length of the cockpit....because that is where you want to keep it when you aren't using the sails. Cheers, Bruce Ok... dumb question time... if the oar doesn't fit in the boat, what the heck do you do with it when you're done using it? If you just leave it hanging out, it seems to me it would get torn off or damaged. Go down to the harbor and have a look at any row boats that may be around... or visit a collage and have a look in their boat houses... Or google "correct oar length". Do you see any of them recommend that ability to store inside the boat as an important factor in sizing them. Kind of like special ordering an outboard engine with a 12 inch shaft... cause that is the size of the locker you plan to store it in. Cheers, Bruce This was the first link for dinghy oar length with a google search... http://www.answers.com/topic/dinghy-oars "the typical yacht tender of 7 to 9 feet (2.1 to 2.7 m), they should be about 6 feet (1.8 m) long" Yes, you can go to the web and get fallacious answer or you could do a bit more study and come up with something like http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Boats/Oarchoice.html to see what people who actually row boats think about generalizations regarding oar length. I might add that people who are serious about paddling canoes take as much care in choosing their paddles as an oarsman takes in choosing his oars. The difference is between the week-end dilettante and the individual that actually rows a boat. Cheers, Bruce |
Cannibal
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 17:12:50 -0800, Jessica B
wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 19:33:51 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:05:49 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:32:07 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:45:51 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:07:49 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:33:15 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:02:08 +0700, Bruce wrote: much snipped Sorry, but I didn't understand even 1/2 of this. Maybe one should not go sailing if you can't deal with the issues that come up, short of being run over by a tanker or something? Sounds pretty simple. Can you deal with a tsunami arrives with no warning and kills some 5,000 people in your immediate area? A 60 MPH squall that hits you at night? Of course not. A couple of things occur to me. First, I thought a tsunami was only dangerous near land. If that's the case, then how could it do damage to a boat that's sailing offshore? Second, it seems like you should be able to handle high winds. Wouldn't you be prepared for that? Why are you sleeping when there's a storm going on? snipped. A tsunami, or any other wave is simply water in motion. Depending on the length and speed of the wave, the amount of vertical movement is generally dependant on the depth of the water it is moving in. So you are correct to say that in deep water they don't have much height, but simply saying "off shore" isn't a sufficient description as you can be quite a distance "off shore" and still have relatively shallow water. in among the S.W. Thai waters, where the Tsunami did the most damage, waters are generally less then 100 ft. A "Sumatra", which might be called a line squall in other parts of the world, is a rather brisk wind that travels fairly rapidly and if at night generally is bit of a shock. In the case I mentioned I was sailing north along the E. Coast of Malaysia on a fine moonlit night with about 5 K. wind. Then, within only a few minutes it was blowing 60 miles an hour for about an hour. As in the case of the Tsunami, it has been stated that it is the worst natural disaster in Thai history. A bit hard to plan for. Squalls occur, frequently with no warning, certainly not something you can specifically prepare for other then in a general way that you know it might blow a bit. And I don't remember saying I was asleep when the squall hit. Cheers, Bruce Not saying you were asleep. Sorry if I implied that. As to water depth, in the middle of the ocean there's no dispute right? No damage. So, you're claim is that in 100 ft of water, the violence would be great? Actually in my case it was the trough that was the most noticeable. I was sitting on the cockpit combing and watching a catamaran and a mono hull, both headed toward Phi Phi and discussing, with my wife, which one would get there first when suddenly the horizon was only a very short distance away, perhaps 50 - 100 meters. By the time I could say, "What the...." the horizon was back to normal and we saw the wave hit an island some 3 miles east of us. I recall hearing? reading? about people in their sailboat in the harbor who rode it out by getting going, then rescued a bunch of people. Seems to me you're safer moving and away from the marina, which was my point. Yes, we had some friends anchored in a bay on the S.W. side of Phuket and when the water suddenly went away, as they described it, they, a bloke and his wife, started the engine and knocked the lock off the anchor winch and ran the chain overboard and headed for the ocean. They said that they got far enough off shore by the time the crest got there that they just bounced up and down a bit. You're saying you can't see a squall coming? You can't be prepared to deal with it? It just happens and there's nothing that can be done? Seems wrong to me.... I didn't say that you can't see a squall coming, in daylight but after dark they are not easy to see. After all the squall may be advancing at 60 MPH. Now if you are sailing along with, say one reef pulled in, with the wind blowing from the side of the boat - what is called a reach - then from the time you see the squall is approaching until it gets to you can be a very short time, and if it is after dark with only a light wind blowing it may hit before you even know it is coming. In the situation I described it will knock your boat down - lay it over on its side - which by itself is not particularly hazardous in a well found sloop (single masted boat), but will certainly make you sit up and take notice. Cheers, Bruce |
Cannibal
On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 18:59:22 +0700, Bruce
wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:58:52 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:41:16 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 20:26:37 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:20:12 -0600, CaveLamb wrote: Jessica B wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:47:36 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:39:35 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message ... snippage Given that I have lived for more than half of my life in Asia I wonder where you came up with your misconception that I ever intended to go further. You expect me to believe your goal was a Bangkok backwater? Yah, right! But of course you don't have misconceptions you simply make it up, unfortunately your blathering is simply "ignorance in action'. Wilbur: The proper length for your dinghy oars is short enough to fit inside the boat. ONE of the attributes of a proper-length dinghy oar is that it fits into the length of the dinghy. Get a clue and stop twisting my words. I hadn't believed that you were actually as stupid as you just proved yourself. I guess that proves that you should never underrate your opponents abilities. The "attribute" of an oar is that it reaches the water..... (Oars originated for, and are still used today, as a devise to propel a boat (through the water). Certainly it may have other attributes such as weight, shape of blade, material of which it is made, etc, but fitting inside the boat is not one of them. Your argument is about as logical as saying that the mast should not be longer then the length of the cockpit....because that is where you want to keep it when you aren't using the sails. Cheers, Bruce Ok... dumb question time... if the oar doesn't fit in the boat, what the heck do you do with it when you're done using it? If you just leave it hanging out, it seems to me it would get torn off or damaged. Mine are in the oar bag. Ok.. so, what happens when you get to the beach or where you're going? Seems to me that you'd want to keep them in the boat and not sticking out? Ever wonder what the Kayak boys do with their paddles that are about 7 ft. long, and them with a cockpit that is an 18 inch hole in the top of the boat. Cheers, Bruce Sure... but you're not talking about kayaks that aren't in the water behind a boat are you? If so, you'd take the paddle out and put it somewhere, right? Nope, I was talking about real kayaks, not those plastic things. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayak for pictures. You tow these behind your boat? Why would you do that? Why not put them on the boat? And if you want to take the paddle off the kayak it can also be done for the dinghy... Ok, but wouldn't it be more convenient to just keep them out of harms way in the dinghy if you can? Don't people put their whole dinghy on their boats? |
Cannibal
On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:09:24 +0700, Bruce
wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 17:01:49 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:38:40 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:37:26 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:47:36 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:39:35 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message news:nbm2k6pn6j6ktvnj0fbr0rcld6g9sclibf@4ax. com... snippage Given that I have lived for more than half of my life in Asia I wonder where you came up with your misconception that I ever intended to go further. You expect me to believe your goal was a Bangkok backwater? Yah, right! But of course you don't have misconceptions you simply make it up, unfortunately your blathering is simply "ignorance in action'. Wilbur: The proper length for your dinghy oars is short enough to fit inside the boat. ONE of the attributes of a proper-length dinghy oar is that it fits into the length of the dinghy. Get a clue and stop twisting my words. I hadn't believed that you were actually as stupid as you just proved yourself. I guess that proves that you should never underrate your opponents abilities. The "attribute" of an oar is that it reaches the water..... (Oars originated for, and are still used today, as a devise to propel a boat (through the water). Certainly it may have other attributes such as weight, shape of blade, material of which it is made, etc, but fitting inside the boat is not one of them. Your argument is about as logical as saying that the mast should not be longer then the length of the cockpit....because that is where you want to keep it when you aren't using the sails. Cheers, Bruce Ok... dumb question time... if the oar doesn't fit in the boat, what the heck do you do with it when you're done using it? If you just leave it hanging out, it seems to me it would get torn off or damaged. Go down to the harbor and have a look at any row boats that may be around... or visit a collage and have a look in their boat houses... Or google "correct oar length". Do you see any of them recommend that ability to store inside the boat as an important factor in sizing them. Kind of like special ordering an outboard engine with a 12 inch shaft... cause that is the size of the locker you plan to store it in. Cheers, Bruce This was the first link for dinghy oar length with a google search... http://www.answers.com/topic/dinghy-oars "the typical yacht tender of 7 to 9 feet (2.1 to 2.7 m), they should be about 6 feet (1.8 m) long" Yes, you can go to the web and get fallacious answer or you could do a bit more study and come up with something like http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Boats/Oarchoice.html to see what people who actually row boats think about generalizations regarding oar length. I might add that people who are serious about paddling canoes take as much care in choosing their paddles as an oarsman takes in choosing his oars. The difference is between the week-end dilettante and the individual that actually rows a boat. Cheers, Bruce Well, it seems like the guy who wrote this is talking about a different sort of rowing. There are sculling rowers out there who have oars that are very, very long. So what? Are you planning on towing one of those? I don't know who you're calling a dilettante, but if you're talking about Wil, I think he's being pretty logical about it. If you're talking about me, I've never made any claim to know much about boats (or rowing for that matter). I do know about logical thought, and he seems to be thinking it. |
Cannibal
On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:50:52 +0700, Bruce
wrote: Sorry, but I didn't understand even 1/2 of this. Maybe one should not go sailing if you can't deal with the issues that come up, short of being run over by a tanker or something? Sounds pretty simple. Can you deal with a tsunami arrives with no warning and kills some 5,000 people in your immediate area? A 60 MPH squall that hits you at night? Of course not. A couple of things occur to me. First, I thought a tsunami was only dangerous near land. If that's the case, then how could it do damage to a boat that's sailing offshore? Second, it seems like you should be able to handle high winds. Wouldn't you be prepared for that? Why are you sleeping when there's a storm going on? snipped. A tsunami, or any other wave is simply water in motion. Depending on the length and speed of the wave, the amount of vertical movement is generally dependant on the depth of the water it is moving in. So you are correct to say that in deep water they don't have much height, but simply saying "off shore" isn't a sufficient description as you can be quite a distance "off shore" and still have relatively shallow water. in among the S.W. Thai waters, where the Tsunami did the most damage, waters are generally less then 100 ft. A "Sumatra", which might be called a line squall in other parts of the world, is a rather brisk wind that travels fairly rapidly and if at night generally is bit of a shock. In the case I mentioned I was sailing north along the E. Coast of Malaysia on a fine moonlit night with about 5 K. wind. Then, within only a few minutes it was blowing 60 miles an hour for about an hour. As in the case of the Tsunami, it has been stated that it is the worst natural disaster in Thai history. A bit hard to plan for. Squalls occur, frequently with no warning, certainly not something you can specifically prepare for other then in a general way that you know it might blow a bit. And I don't remember saying I was asleep when the squall hit. Not saying you were asleep. Sorry if I implied that. As to water depth, in the middle of the ocean there's no dispute right? No damage. So, you're claim is that in 100 ft of water, the violence would be great? Actually in my case it was the trough that was the most noticeable. I was sitting on the cockpit combing and watching a catamaran and a mono hull, both headed toward Phi Phi and discussing, with my wife, which one would get there first when suddenly the horizon was only a very short distance away, perhaps 50 - 100 meters. By the time I could say, "What the...." the horizon was back to normal and we saw the wave hit an island some 3 miles east of us. So, nothing much happened on your boat. You noticed it, but that was about it. I recall hearing? reading? about people in their sailboat in the harbor who rode it out by getting going, then rescued a bunch of people. Seems to me you're safer moving and away from the marina, which was my point. Yes, we had some friends anchored in a bay on the S.W. side of Phuket and when the water suddenly went away, as they described it, they, a bloke and his wife, started the engine and knocked the lock off the anchor winch and ran the chain overboard and headed for the ocean. They said that they got far enough off shore by the time the crest got there that they just bounced up and down a bit. Sounds like they were prepared and did the right thing...? You're saying you can't see a squall coming? You can't be prepared to deal with it? It just happens and there's nothing that can be done? Seems wrong to me.... I didn't say that you can't see a squall coming, in daylight but after dark they are not easy to see. After all the squall may be advancing at 60 MPH. Now if you are sailing along with, say one reef pulled in, with the wind blowing from the side of the boat - what is called a reach - then from the time you see the squall is approaching until it gets to you can be a very short time, and if it is after dark with only a light wind blowing it may hit before you even know it is coming. In the situation I described it will knock your boat down - lay it over on its side - which by itself is not particularly hazardous in a well found sloop (single masted boat), but will certainly make you sit up and take notice. Well, hang on a sec... I don't know what reef pulled in means, but when the wind blows against the sail, the boat leans over... knocks down? Ok. Then what? It comes back up or does it keep going? What happens if you release all the sails? If it happens at night, then ok, you got hit the first time, but then.... ? We released all the ropes when we brought them down at the end of the day... the sails and ropes just flapped around a lot and the boat stopped moving. In the book the Perfect Storm, the sailboat seems to take it long enough for the people to be rescued, and it seems like the winds in that storm are much higher than in a squall. |
Cannibal
Wilbur Hubbard Oh... ok. So, you're a Captain? That's cool. So, should I call you Neal or Wil... sort of like Wil, but it's your name. I even have a USCG Masters license. But, I let it expire last year because the Big Brother bureaucrats decided it was no good without their dumb "TWIC" card. (Transportation Workers ID card). They wanted me to jump through their hoops and get finger printed and photographed again and stand in line at one of their centers for half a day and pay them a hundred bucks more while they processed forms etc. that were nothing but a duplicate of the forms they had me fill out when getting the captain's license. *What a joke! What wilbur is saying is that he has a 25 GRT Master most likely INLAND. This means that ALL of his credible Sea Service was on vessels 15 GRT. One day over 15 GRT would get Willbur a 50 GRT Master. Its a rather easy test. The problme that WIlbur is ranting about to provide a smoke screen for his lack of credible tonnage is now the USCG and TSA (TWIC) require a significant background check. If you have a DUI or "other" events that may place you in a security risk catigory and scuttle your Captiains license. Heck, there are even new and increased HEALTH requirments that list drugs such as high blood preasure and others which will deny a renewal. Oh, there are also body mass index (BMI) requirmenst. In other words., those fat ass coonasses down south may get denied a renewal cause their so fat. Whoa... you're a captain? That's so cool! That says a lot about you... See above. you have to pass all sorts of background checks if it's anything like getting even a local government job like mine. And I support increased requirments completely. It time to keep the drug users and fat asses off the water. I don't get what's going on with the government... all this money coming in, and the whole infrastructure seems to be falling apart. I don't mind a few rules, but come on. Especially when it comes to paperwork. You've already been through the checks, you've already passed your exam (or whatever), so give the individual a break already. Its real simple. I get my 200 GRT Master NC/1600 Mate Near Coast and all is well. a few years later im so obease I cant get up a ladder, my blood preasure is so high Id blow, im an alcoholic etc... in other words Im not fit for duty. I say make the rules MORE strict! so why are you republicans so anti rules yet when it comes to taking my privacy away you guys ralley in the streets ? Bob |
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I don't believe the people in this race were not prepared, nor the boats
in poor condition. The crews were just exhausted, and in fear for their lives. Further reading: Sydney to Hobart, 1998. * Justin. From what I read, most of the deaths happened due to abandoning the boats. Maybe if they had stayed with the boat.... ? Fastnet Disaster of 1979 Interview with Bill Burrows, Chief Engineer Royal Navy Lifeboat Institution. Retrieved three disabled sailboats in a 21 hour rescue during the fatal 1979 Fastnet Storm. “… Look, you get 300 Yachats in poor weather and you’re going to have some trouble, almost certainly. But the majority of the trouble was hysteria created by the situation and by inexperienced crews. And that it was. They were blaming rudders and such, but none of those rudders would have snapped if they had put drogues out and storm jibs and run before the weather. They were under bare poles, most of them, and they were getting up on the seas. And the seas were about 45 feet. Not what we around here call big. They got up on these seas and they were running. When the boats were starting to broach, what the helmsmen were doing was hauling on the rudders to stop them from broaching. They were putting too much bloody strain on the rudders, and they had to go. Yes, I know they were racing sailors, not cruising men, but that’s no excuse. We went out that night and we passed a little old hooker sort of thing with a family of kids aboard and they were going away to Ireland with no trouble at all….” (The Yacht, April 1987) What was the most successful design in the history of Sydney to Hobart? Bob |
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"Jessica B" wrote in message
... On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 12:50:15 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: snip I love it! So, what are you going to say to your boss then he tries to write you up for putting the sticker back on? "You'd better talk to YOUR boss because he told me it was OK." That'll larn him! It was perfect. I actually just walked in there before I left (leave at 3pm), and sort of casually said, hey about that sticker thing... I was talking to Greg and he seemed ok with it, but I can remove it if you really think it's a problem. So, he says, oh yeah, Greg said something to me about the (his Mystery Spot) sticker, but didn't say to take it off. So I guess just don't worry about it. (I don't think anyone complained. I think he just had a hair up his butt about something and I happened to be there.) He's probably one of those control freaks who thought he could browbeat a "defenseless" woman. LOL! snip Ah.. ok. Never heard it called that. No kids and I limit my time with my nieces. :) Are your brothers older or younger? Probably older if they have kids already. snip But, you can only get away with it once a month provided they have halfway decent memories. ;-) That's true, but that "once a month" could be a week! I know some girls who would remove said pound of flesh if someone looks at them the wrong way. Never thought of that. Some PMS does last a week unfortunately. And some women outright lose their minds. Best to steer clear of them until their hormones get back to normal. snip You should get yourself a nice pair of black, shiney jackboots and a riding crop - really intimidate them. LOL! Heh... Well, I prefer to go down the easy road first. I don't need the stress. I mean if they want to blow up their house, all their possessions, kids, wife, car... fine with me, as long as I told em and wrote it down. It would just like those Rubes to try to sue you if you FAILED to write it down. I can see it now . . . "Your honor, my house passed inspection with flying colors so it's HER (points at little ole you) fault it caught on fire and burned up. It was HER job to find anything wrong." snip Well, heck! Even I can lift 35 lbs! Snub? Ok... like shorten it, so you're pulling until you're right over it. Got it. The guy with the Catalina had this monster-looking anchor, but we didn't use it. You'd better be able to lift 35 pounds or you're awful puny. LOL! Yup, you got snub right. A boat that displaces, say four tons of water can lift that much wheight when a sizable wave rolls under it. If the anchor rode is vertical the anchor doesn't stand a chance of staying stuck in the bottom. Yes... I think he had all of it chain or well all I could see. It went into a hatch, so I don't know. There was definitely chain though. Some sailors are too stupid to realize that an all-chain rode is dysfunctional because it's prohibitively heavy and the weight of it is usually all right at the bow of the boat which causes the boat to hobby horse it's way through the seas. A combination of chain and nylon three-strand line is the better arrangement for smaller sailboats. Again, it's a case of pretend sailors not really knowing what they're doing. They see big ships and huge ship's anchors and all-chain rodes and they think if it's good for big ships it must be good for small ships. Nothing could be further from the truth. Wilbur Hubbard |
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"Justin C" wrote in message
... In article , Jessica B wrote: On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 17:48:35 -0600, CaveLamb wrote: I'm guessing that on a two or three year cruise it might be nice to processionally have clean clothes. But that's just me. YMMV? Doesn't the boat ever stop somewhere? Seems like all you have to do is pull in somewhere and deal with it. What happens in the middle of the ocean? You're going to do laundry in your bring-along system? Seems at odds with sailing some how. I've heard of two suggestions... actually, three. 1. A big bucket into which you put water, detergent and the offending items (they're likely to be offending the nose of others after a while, I'm sure). You then 'tread' them for a while, like the French used to with grapes. A seamanlike arrangement. 2. All that needs washing ends up in the shower stall. Whoever takes a shower 'treads' the clothes as they do so. I am not certain of the efficacy of this method. Shower stall? C'mon. Real sailboats don't waste space and water with a shower stall. That's way too lubberly to even consider. 3. Small mesh netting (small enough that your smalls don't go through the holes) from which you make a bag, into which you put your laundry. The neting bag is then towed behind the boat for a while. That should work and I've heard of that method, too. The very best way, however, when cruising is to just say no to clothes. If you don't wear them then they don't get soiled. But, you still have to wash sheets, towels, etc. Wilbur Hubbard |
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"Joe" wrote in message
... On Jan 23, 7:10 pm, "Wayne.B" wrote: snip I need to replace our washer/dryer. Any recommendations on a good, belt free model? Splendeen..It's an Italian.W/D You get about two years good use out of them. Panty waist! Leave the laundry to the distaff side. I'm sure Ms. Terry can handle it without your interfering. Wilbur Hubbard |
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 14:01:23 -0800 (PST), Bob
wrote: I don't believe the people in this race were not prepared, nor the boats in poor condition. The crews were just exhausted, and in fear for their lives. Further reading: Sydney to Hobart, 1998. * Justin. From what I read, most of the deaths happened due to abandoning the boats. Maybe if they had stayed with the boat.... ? Fastnet Disaster of 1979 Interview with Bill Burrows, Chief Engineer Royal Navy Lifeboat Institution. Retrieved three disabled sailboats in a 21 hour rescue during the fatal 1979 Fastnet Storm. “… Look, you get 300 Yachats in poor weather and you’re going to have some trouble, almost certainly. But the majority of the trouble was hysteria created by the situation and by inexperienced crews. And that it was. They were blaming rudders and such, but none of those rudders would have snapped if they had put drogues out and storm jibs and run before the weather. They were under bare poles, most of them, and they were getting up on the seas. And the seas were about 45 feet. Not what we around here call big. They got up on these seas and they were running. When the boats were starting to broach, what the helmsmen were doing was hauling on the rudders to stop them from broaching. They were putting too much bloody strain on the rudders, and they had to go. Yes, I know they were racing sailors, not cruising men, but that’s no excuse. We went out that night and we passed a little old hooker sort of thing with a family of kids aboard and they were going away to Ireland with no trouble at all….” (The Yacht, April 1987) What was the most successful design in the history of Sydney to Hobart? Bob Hi Bob... well, I don't know... |
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 13:55:46 -0800 (PST), Bob
wrote: Wilbur Hubbard Oh... ok. So, you're a Captain? That's cool. So, should I call you Neal or Wil... sort of like Wil, but it's your name. I even have a USCG Masters license. But, I let it expire last year because the Big Brother bureaucrats decided it was no good without their dumb "TWIC" card. (Transportation Workers ID card). They wanted me to jump through their hoops and get finger printed and photographed again and stand in line at one of their centers for half a day and pay them a hundred bucks more while they processed forms etc. that were nothing but a duplicate of the forms they had me fill out when getting the captain's license. *What a joke! What wilbur is saying is that he has a 25 GRT Master most likely INLAND. This means that ALL of his credible Sea Service was on vessels 15 GRT. One day over 15 GRT would get Willbur a 50 GRT Master. Its a rather easy test. The problme that WIlbur is ranting about to provide a smoke screen for his lack of credible tonnage is now the USCG and TSA (TWIC) require a significant background check. If you have a DUI or "other" events that may place you in a security risk catigory and scuttle your Captiains license. Heck, there are even new and increased HEALTH requirments that list drugs such as high blood preasure and others which will deny a renewal. Oh, there are also body mass index (BMI) requirmenst. In other words., those fat ass coonasses down south may get denied a renewal cause their so fat. Whoa... you're a captain? That's so cool! That says a lot about you... See above. So I take it that you have such a license? It might be easy for you... the test... but not for most people I bet! you have to pass all sorts of background checks if it's anything like getting even a local government job like mine. And I support increased requirments completely. It time to keep the drug users and fat asses off the water. Somehow I don't get the impression that Capt. Wil is either a drug user or a fat ass. I don't get what's going on with the government... all this money coming in, and the whole infrastructure seems to be falling apart. I don't mind a few rules, but come on. Especially when it comes to paperwork. You've already been through the checks, you've already passed your exam (or whatever), so give the individual a break already. Its real simple. I get my 200 GRT Master NC/1600 Mate Near Coast and all is well. a few years later im so obease I cant get up a ladder, my blood preasure is so high Id blow, im an alcoholic etc... in other words Im not fit for duty. I say make the rules MORE strict! so why are you republicans so anti rules yet when it comes to taking my privacy away you guys ralley in the streets ? Hey, I'm not anti-rules. I just want rules that make sense! If you're in charge of a boat with people, I think having to take a drug test or whatever is probably reasonable. But, is it reasonable to have to go through yet another background check? I have to be bonded for my job, so if I want a door-to-door solicitor permit, should I have to go through all that background nonsense again? (Not that I want to do that, that's a requirement here.) Why do they charge $100 for that card ..TIWC? Seems like it's kind of over the top. What does it get you? What's wrong with a passport? Just seems like lots of stupid rules (I know, because I'm responsible for enforcing rules) for little purpose (the ones I enforce are mostly common-sense). |
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"Bruce" wrote in message
... On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:12:37 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: A kitty cat is a proper addition to a sailing yacht as they will eliminate any mouse or rat that might come aboard from who knows where. there is room for you, and a rat, on the yellow dinghy? Many ocean-going sailors will confirm the fact that a 27-30 foot sailboat is the ideal size because of the wavelength and frequency of prevailing winds generated wave trains. Something about twice that size ends up being a rougher ride by far and can be overwhelmed and pooped in a following sea whereas the modest-size vessel just rides up and over like a duck. So, get a clue. Loose that stupid bigger is better attitude. It only paints you as ignorant of real world sailing. snip Errr, Willie, I'm here in Thailand, and you are still anchored in Florida? And somehow this indicates that you are the sailorman and I'm not..... Admission of failure noted. While I have cruised thousands of miles, I have never been stranded in some backwater for 30 years like you have. I have met all my goals and have not been forced into expatriation by virtue of a dearth of perserverance and/or skills. Something wrong with your logic I'm afraid. You're afraid, alright. Afraid of going the rest of the way around. LOL! Keep telling yourself that half of your goal is success. One day in the distant future you might even come to really believe it. Liberal drones? what ever gave you that idea? I certainly would like to see your evidence to support that statement.. Your brainwashed state and Joe's brainwashed state respecting equating trying with succeeding is at the very core of liberal drone thinking. It's the very same thought process that has children playing soccer, softball, etc. and not keeping score because there can be no losers. Get a clue. In life there ARE winners and losers and just because one tries, it doesn't keep one from being a failure and a loser when one does not succeed. You and Joe are quite pitiful really. Joe brags that he's the better man because he, at least, tried. Never mind that he tried AND failed miserably. So, by his reasoning, a miserable failure is better than somebody with goals he tries and succeeds at attaining even though the goals don't seem quite so lofty? So you have a failure presuming to be the arbiter of loft? That doesn't strike you as ludicrous and inane? You can't see that grinding to a halt half-way around is no success no matter how hard you try to rationalize it, after the fact? Wilbur Hubbard |
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 12:16:05 -0800, Jessica B
wrote: On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:09:24 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 17:01:49 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:38:40 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:37:26 -0800, Jessica B wrote: On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:47:36 +0700, Bruce wrote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:39:35 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message news:nbm2k6pn6j6ktvnj0fbr0rcld6g9sclibf@4ax .com... snippage Given that I have lived for more than half of my life in Asia I wonder where you came up with your misconception that I ever intended to go further. You expect me to believe your goal was a Bangkok backwater? Yah, right! But of course you don't have misconceptions you simply make it up, unfortunately your blathering is simply "ignorance in action'. Wilbur: The proper length for your dinghy oars is short enough to fit inside the boat. ONE of the attributes of a proper-length dinghy oar is that it fits into the length of the dinghy. Get a clue and stop twisting my words. I hadn't believed that you were actually as stupid as you just proved yourself. I guess that proves that you should never underrate your opponents abilities. The "attribute" of an oar is that it reaches the water..... (Oars originated for, and are still used today, as a devise to propel a boat (through the water). Certainly it may have other attributes such as weight, shape of blade, material of which it is made, etc, but fitting inside the boat is not one of them. Your argument is about as logical as saying that the mast should not be longer then the length of the cockpit....because that is where you want to keep it when you aren't using the sails. Cheers, Bruce Ok... dumb question time... if the oar doesn't fit in the boat, what the heck do you do with it when you're done using it? If you just leave it hanging out, it seems to me it would get torn off or damaged. Go down to the harbor and have a look at any row boats that may be around... or visit a collage and have a look in their boat houses... Or google "correct oar length". Do you see any of them recommend that ability to store inside the boat as an important factor in sizing them. Kind of like special ordering an outboard engine with a 12 inch shaft... cause that is the size of the locker you plan to store it in. Cheers, Bruce This was the first link for dinghy oar length with a google search... http://www.answers.com/topic/dinghy-oars "the typical yacht tender of 7 to 9 feet (2.1 to 2.7 m), they should be about 6 feet (1.8 m) long" Yes, you can go to the web and get fallacious answer or you could do a bit more study and come up with something like http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Boats/Oarchoice.html to see what people who actually row boats think about generalizations regarding oar length. I might add that people who are serious about paddling canoes take as much care in choosing their paddles as an oarsman takes in choosing his oars. The difference is between the week-end dilettante and the individual that actually rows a boat. Cheers, Bruce Well, it seems like the guy who wrote this is talking about a different sort of rowing. There are sculling rowers out there who have oars that are very, very long. So what? Are you planning on towing one of those? I don't know who you're calling a dilettante, but if you're talking about Wil, I think he's being pretty logical about it. If you're talking about me, I've never made any claim to know much about boats (or rowing for that matter). I do know about logical thought, and he seems to be thinking it. Firstly, the article I provided the link for was by a bloke in N.Z. who is building a rowing boat, not a racing shell... Quite a difference. The point was to demonstrate that oars are a bit more complex then just a "they gotta fit in the boat" specification. I wasn't specifically referring to anyone when I used the words "weekend dilettante". I was simply referring to those who spend their time (on Sunday) sailing in the bay, and have all the toys. Cheers, Bruce |
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"Jessica B" wrote in message
... On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:12:37 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bruce" wrote in message . .. snip This from a bloke that brags a photo of himself sitting in a tiny boat petting a pussy? A kitty cat is a proper addition to a sailing yacht as they will eliminate any mouse or rat that might come aboard from who knows where. Do you have a kitty?! I love cats, but don't have any pets right now. Yes, I rescued this feral kitten and now he's all grown up. He's still very timid around people and hides when strangers visit but he's a good hunter. He mostly hunts insects as that is about all that can get aboard. There was a mangrove snake he cornered one time in the lazarette just forward of the outboard motor, though. I had to grab it and toss it overboard but it swam to the dinghy and crawled up along the transom and got in so I rowed it over to the shore and put it off so it wouldn't keep coming back. I think if you left off the word conservative, you would have said it all. :) Seriously though... I just don't get this liberal nonsense, especially what goes on in a place like this. How about some reasoned approach to finance?? Hello? Well, aren't you sweet! But, you are right; one of these days people are going to have to WAKE UP and realize that money doesn't grow on trees. People who don't produce a damned thing are going to have to realize that they aren't worth a dime as far as payment for not producing a thing goes. This country is going to hell in a handbasket. Every high school student should have to read (and understand) Ayn Rand's, "Atlas Shrugged," before they are given a diploma. You seem so very sensible. If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" please do so as you are very much in the mold of Dagny Taggart. snipped to end Wilbur Hubbard |
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"Bruce" wrote in message
... emptied ballast Sir Eric may well have said/written that, however, given that Hiscock was writing in an earlier time ("Wandering Under Sail" -1939) and who died in 1986 I suggest that he was not writing about a rubber dinghy which is a far different design from the small rowing boat that was likely what Hiscock had experience with. Poppycock! Sir Eric knew more about sailing than you can ever hope to. He was talking about rowing dinghies and not so abortion of an inflatable which he could not and would not abide for all the obvious reasons. You must think I have a rubber duck. I do not. My dinghy is constructed of GRP and is six feel long. Six-foot oars is the max length for my dinghy as they will lay inside just like Sir Eric recommends. You are the clown the attempted to say it was nonsense to suggest oars should fit in the length of the dinghy. So, stop trying to obfuscate, man up, admit your mistake and apologize for your ignorant abusive tone. Now go and ask anyone who rows a boat on a daily basis. They will simply laugh at you and row away as you have just exposed yourself as yet another Sunday Sailor who (in spite of having read Hiscock) still knows nothing of boats. Should I care about the opinion of some wannabe over that of a notable expert like Sir Eric? Wilbur Hubbard |
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"Bruce" wrote in message
... Dinghy Dock? And you've spent all this time nattering on about Marinas and now you admit to anchoring off to avoid paying dockage and then sneaking into the dinghy dock?? More proof that you never go anywhere. If you were a real cruiser you would use dinghy docks regularly when anchored in distant harbors. What do YOU do? Haul your dinghy ashore on private property? Probably. Some dinghy docks charge a small fee and some are free - either way trying to change the subject about the stupidity of having long oars protruding over the ends or sides of a dinghy just won't cut the mustard. Wilbur Hubbard |
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"Jessica B" wrote in message
... On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 10:52:09 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "CaveLamb" wrote in message ... snip Why does a couple of feet of oar sticking out of the boat matter? Spoken like a clueless dolt! An oar or oars sticking out of a dinghy can catch under the dinghy dock on a rising tide and capsize the boat. Duh! Just one of the many hazards that are eliminated with oars that fit inside the length of the dinghy. Perhaps some of you pretend sailors need to sail once in a while to learn how things really go down? Wilbur Hubbard Or, even just scratch the sides... You could put fenders to protect the boat from the dinghy, but they wouldn't protect it from the oars. They might even get broken off. Broken off or lost overboard. Bruce is very naive. It makes me wonder if perhaps he didn't arrive in Thailand as deck cargo aboard a freighter. Oh, one other thing. You sure have a good head on your shoulders. . . Wilbur Hubbard |
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 12:25:33 -0800, Jessica B
wrote: On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:50:52 +0700, Bruce wrote: Actually in my case it was the trough that was the most noticeable. I was sitting on the cockpit combing and watching a catamaran and a mono hull, both headed toward Phi Phi and discussing, with my wife, which one would get there first when suddenly the horizon was only a very short distance away, perhaps 50 - 100 meters. By the time I could say, "What the...." the horizon was back to normal and we saw the wave hit an island some 3 miles east of us. So, nothing much happened on your boat. You noticed it, but that was about it. Jesus, what did you expect? Had the wave arrived an hour earlier it would have crushed the boat against an island and neither I or my wife would be here to talk about it. The discussion started with your talk about being "prepared" for calamities at sea. I was simply trying to demonstrate that not everything can be prepared for. I recall hearing? reading? about people in their sailboat in the harbor who rode it out by getting going, then rescued a bunch of people. Seems to me you're safer moving and away from the marina, which was my point. Yes, we had some friends anchored in a bay on the S.W. side of Phuket and when the water suddenly went away, as they described it, they, a bloke and his wife, started the engine and knocked the lock off the anchor winch and ran the chain overboard and headed for the ocean. They said that they got far enough off shore by the time the crest got there that they just bounced up and down a bit. Sounds like they were prepared and did the right thing...? Nope. In the first place they didn't know what was happening when it occurred. All they knew was that "the water went away", as they said. Their reaction was simply to get into more water so if it continued to "go away" they would still be floating. Starting the engine... well you turn the key, so perhaps leaving the key in the switch (as nearly all Yachties do) is being prepared. Running the anchor chain out to get free of the anchor is actually being un-prepared as most people advocate tying a rope to the last link in the anchor chain so if you do run the chain all the way out you don't lose it. In the situation I described it will knock your boat down - lay it over on its side - which by itself is not particularly hazardous in a well found sloop (single masted boat), but will certainly make you sit up and take notice. Well, hang on a sec... I don't know what reef pulled in means, but when the wind blows against the sail, the boat leans over... knocks down? Ok. Then what? It comes back up or does it keep going? What happens if you release all the sails? If it happens at night, then ok, you got hit the first time, but then.... ? A knock down occurs when the wind against the sail comes from, broadly speaking, either side of the boat. If the wind suddenly blows hard enough to overcome the weight of the boat, the boat tips over. However, as the boat tips over (heels) the grip of the rudder on the water diminishes and there is less force holding the boat on its heading. What happens is that the wind forces the boat over on its side, but then the ruder is not holding the boat on its course so it turns into the wind, which decreases the wind pressure on the sails and allows the boat to right itself. We released all the ropes when we brought them down at the end of the day... the sails and ropes just flapped around a lot and the boat stopped moving. Yes, because you released the "sheets" the ropes that hold the sail against the wind pressure and allot it to just flap - like a flag. In the book the Perfect Storm, the sailboat seems to take it long enough for the people to be rescued, and it seems like the winds in that storm are much higher than in a squall. I think that you are a bit confused as "The Perfect Storm" is a book about the swordfishing boa, the Andrea Gail, out of Gloucester, Massachusetts, that sank in 1991, in a large storm in the N. Atlantic. Cheers, Bruce |
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