Bruce In Bangkok wrote:



Out of curiosity, aren't there any places left where you can moor a
boat. Maybe put down your own mooring and essentially anchor free?

Where do fishermen keep their boats these days?

There's quite a move to control mooring and even anchoring in many US
harbors. Part of it are cities wishing to collect fees for moorages and
part of it is due to those who buy expensive shoreside properties not
wishing to have their views ruined by permanent liveabords who get some
wreck of a boat and moor or anchor it as a solution to cheap rent.

While there are some legal hassles over issues I'm not familiar about,
the cities do seem to be winning.

I even had some fights with homeowners when anchored overnight along the
Inland Waterway. They'd 'protest' me blocking their view (for a night
only) by shining bright spotlights on my boat making the inside quite
bright and thus difficult to sleep.

I do have some sympathy with the homeowners. Many of the liveaboards
quite obviously pollute the area with their black and gray water plus
looking at an array of boat wrecks covered with scrouged junk and
laundry isn't a sight I'd like to see from my windows or yard. I'd also
resent the pollution if I or my family used the backyard beach as a
swimming area.

On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:34:07 -0700, slide
wrote:

permanent liveabords who get some
wreck of a boat and moor or anchor it as a solution to cheap rent.

That is the crux of the problem right there. It gets worse.
Eventually the boat becomes abandoned for one reason or another, and
then it sinks, creating a navigational hazard and eyesore.

On Dec 7, 1:54*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:34:07 -0700, slide

wrote:
permanent liveabords who get some
wreck of a boat and moor or anchor it as a solution to cheap rent.

That is the crux of the problem right there. * It gets worse.
Eventually the boat becomes abandoned for one reason or another, and
then it sinks, creating a navigational hazard and eyesore.

You're talking about Neal right?

We also have a boat dump here. People to cheap to pay for a slip
anchor in the federal waterways, that way the city or state has no
say. Most blow ashore and the city then has to dispose of them. The
problem has compounded since hurricane Ike and hundreds of very cheap
boats have hit the market.

I'd say the ideal boat is one that can make a living for her crew and
many others. The rest are mostly under used expensive toys. But thats
just my opinion.

Joe

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 12:06:02 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

On Dec 7, 1:54*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:34:07 -0700, slide

wrote:
permanent liveabords who get some
wreck of a boat and moor or anchor it as a solution to cheap rent.

That is the crux of the problem right there. * It gets worse.
Eventually the boat becomes abandoned for one reason or another, and
then it sinks, creating a navigational hazard and eyesore.

You're talking about Neal right?

Actually No! As far as Neil and his personas go I have most of them
kill-filed and out of sight is out of mind.

We also have a boat dump here. People to cheap to pay for a slip
anchor in the federal waterways, that way the city or state has no
say. Most blow ashore and the city then has to dispose of them. The
problem has compounded since hurricane Ike and hundreds of very cheap
boats have hit the market.

Why do you say "too cheap to pay for a slip"? Does renting a slip
somehow confer added dignity on one?

I'd say the ideal boat is one that can make a living for her crew and
many others. The rest are mostly under used expensive toys. But thats
just my opinion.

Joe

And then there are those of us who have sufficient funds to live as we
wish and to whom "making a living" is simply history.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 14:54:40 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:34:07 -0700, slide
wrote:

permanent liveabords who get some
wreck of a boat and moor or anchor it as a solution to cheap rent.

That is the crux of the problem right there. It gets worse.
Eventually the boat becomes abandoned for one reason or another, and
then it sinks, creating a navigational hazard and eyesore.

I wasn't especially talking about live-a-board. Rather a place to keep
a boat that didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 07:04:05 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 14:54:40 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:34:07 -0700, slide
wrote:

permanent liveabords who get some
wreck of a boat and moor or anchor it as a solution to cheap rent.

That is the crux of the problem right there. It gets worse.
Eventually the boat becomes abandoned for one reason or another, and
then it sinks, creating a navigational hazard and eyesore.

I wasn't especially talking about live-a-board. Rather a place to keep
a boat that didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Depends where you are. I checked a marina in Punta Gorda, FL
a couple years ago and it was $3-400 a month dockage for a 26'.
Water and electric included. Probably cheaper now.
At the same time/area a 24' trailerable boat kept in a barn storage
ran a couple hundred a month. Ramp launching was included.
Twice a day before additional charge as I recall.

--Vic

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 14:54:40 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:34:07 -0700, slide
wrote:

permanent liveabords who get some
wreck of a boat and moor or anchor it as a solution to cheap rent.
That is the crux of the problem right there. It gets worse.
Eventually the boat becomes abandoned for one reason or another, and
then it sinks, creating a navigational hazard and eyesore.

I wasn't especially talking about live-a-board. Rather a place to keep
a boat that didn't cost an arm and a leg.


The restrictions exist partly due to the 'bum' live aboard' issue but
apply to overnight anchoring as well. Frex, last time I was there, and I
suppose this won't change, Vero Beach's excellent anchorage is forbidden
even for a night unless you pay a fee to the city. As I said in my post,
those who live on the coast objected to me anchoring off their backyards
even for a night.

Vero's restriction was challenged in court on some grounds out of my
knowing. Vero Beach won it. That sort of restriction is rampant today. I
noted it exists only where houses are.

The commercial fleet isn't nearly as large as it was a few years ago.
Frex, the shrimpers have been reduced dramatically by Chinese shrimp
farmers. Other sorts of fishermen are reduced due to species removal or
reductions. AFAIK, the northern fishermen (like Maine) are doing ok
except for cod. The lobster fleet and those *#&#& pots seem darn
numerous to me. Then again, it's not like I ever saw it in 1980 so I
can't compare.

I chatted up a few shrimpers who clearly think they are the last of the
shrimp hunters. A business which has gone on for generations (they say)
is now dead or dying.

"slide" wrote in message
...
Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 14:54:40 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:34:07 -0700, slide
wrote:

permanent liveabords who get some wreck of a boat and moor or anchor it
as a solution to cheap rent.
That is the crux of the problem right there. It gets worse.
Eventually the boat becomes abandoned for one reason or another, and
then it sinks, creating a navigational hazard and eyesore.

I wasn't especially talking about live-a-board. Rather a place to keep
a boat that didn't cost an arm and a leg.


The restrictions exist partly due to the 'bum' live aboard' issue but
apply to overnight anchoring as well. Frex, last time I was there, and I
suppose this won't change, Vero Beach's excellent anchorage is forbidden
even for a night unless you pay a fee to the city. As I said in my post,
those who live on the coast objected to me anchoring off their backyards
even for a night.

Vero's restriction was challenged in court on some grounds out of my
knowing. Vero Beach won it. That sort of restriction is rampant today. I
noted it exists only where houses are.

The commercial fleet isn't nearly as large as it was a few years ago.
Frex, the shrimpers have been reduced dramatically by Chinese shrimp
farmers. Other sorts of fishermen are reduced due to species removal or
reductions. AFAIK, the northern fishermen (like Maine) are doing ok except
for cod. The lobster fleet and those *#&#& pots seem darn numerous to me.
Then again, it's not like I ever saw it in 1980 so I can't compare.

I chatted up a few shrimpers who clearly think they are the last of the
shrimp hunters. A business which has gone on for generations (they say) is
now dead or dying.

Yeah, the feds are cutting red snapper fishing as of 4 Jan. Lot's of people
complaining that this is based on "bad science". They take no personal
responsibilty for stock depletions. Just take and take and screw tomorrow.
Not too long ago the state outlawed gill nets. Gill net fishermen
slaughtered tons of mullet and "by-catch" (everything else that gets caught-
almost nothing lives) in the harvest of mullet roe for the Japanese market.
Mullet had been almopst wiped out on Floridas west coast around and north of
Tampa.
We saw an almost immediate increase in food fish and in mullet which are an
important food for all carniverous species.
I felt for the netters when this happened but was happy to see that our
Gov't was doing something before the Japanese lust for anything fishy
screwed Floridans permanently.

mmc wrote:


Yeah, the feds are cutting red snapper fishing as of 4 Jan. Lot's of people
complaining that this is based on "bad science". They take no personal
responsibilty for stock depletions. Just take and take and screw tomorrow.
Not too long ago the state outlawed gill nets. Gill net fishermen
slaughtered tons of mullet and "by-catch" (everything else that gets caught-
almost nothing lives) in the harvest of mullet roe for the Japanese market.
Mullet had been almopst wiped out on Floridas west coast around and north of
Tampa.
We saw an almost immediate increase in food fish and in mullet which are an
important food for all carniverous species.
I felt for the netters when this happened but was happy to see that our
Gov't was doing something before the Japanese lust for anything fishy
screwed Floridans permanently.

I had nor do I have any real sympathy with the shrimpers. I would watch
as they empty their nets throwing away hundreds of (now dead) animals
which were collateral damage causalities.

I asked them why not get into shrimp farming like the Chinese instead of
letting the crop move to overseas? Their answer always was something
like my father and grandfather and his father all did it this way....

I never argued with them, but am not sad to see them go either.

On Dec 9, 7:35*am, slide wrote:
mmc wrote:

Yeah, the feds are cutting red snapper fishing as of 4 Jan. Lot's of people
complaining that this is based on "bad science". They take no personal
responsibilty for stock depletions. Just take and take and screw tomorrow.
Not too long ago the state outlawed gill nets. Gill net fishermen
slaughtered tons of mullet and "by-catch" (everything else that gets caught-
almost nothing lives) in the harvest of mullet roe for the Japanese market.
Mullet had been almopst wiped out on Floridas west coast around and north of
Tampa.
We saw an almost immediate increase in food fish and in mullet which are an
important food for all carniverous species.
I felt for the netters when this happened but was happy to see that our
Gov't was doing something before the Japanese lust for anything fishy
screwed Floridans permanently.

I had nor do I have any real sympathy with the shrimpers. I would watch
as they empty their nets throwing away hundreds of (now dead) animals
which were collateral damage causalities.

Slide says as he's munching down a huge platter of fried shrimp and
oysters.

I asked them why not get into shrimp farming like the Chinese instead of
letting the crop move to overseas? Their answer always was something
like my father and grandfather and his father all did it this way....

He might also have a 185K in a boat, and not be able to buy a shrimp
farm due to loss of income to the Chinese slave labor shrimp farms.

And what if the shrimpers go broke? Who's going to pay the 100's of
millions of dollars the shrimper pay to Parks and wildlife for
permits?

How many thousands have you paid to replenish and restock the bays
Slide?

Face it the shrimpers, and fishermen and pleasure sportsmen support
the protection of the stock more than any other group at all.


I never argued with them, but am not sad to see them go either.

Well lets hope that shrimp platter cost you a 100 bucks soon, then
maybe you might give a hoot.

No since in American mariners having jobs if the Chinese can do it
cheaper right?

I bet you drive a Toyota too huh?

Joe



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