Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:02:15 +0100, Andy Champ
wrote:

Reagan recommissioned a couple of battleships. While it seemed crazy
they performed very well for shore bombardment duties.

It was crazy. They performed well for a battleship but not compared
to modern precision guided munitions. Accuracy at typical range was
something like plus or minus 400 feet, close enough to scare your
target but not necessarily destroy it.


Odd, I thought I recalled them being used a cruise missile launchers
among other things...

Andy

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:52:31 +0100, Andy Champ
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:02:15 +0100, Andy Champ
wrote:

Reagan recommissioned a couple of battleships. While it seemed crazy
they performed very well for shore bombardment duties.

It was crazy. They performed well for a battleship but not compared
to modern precision guided munitions. Accuracy at typical range was
something like plus or minus 400 feet, close enough to scare your
target but not necessarily destroy it.


Odd, I thought I recalled them being used a cruise missile launchers
among other things...


They might have had some cruise missles also but that was secondary to
the big battleship guns. A battleship is a very inefficient platform
for launching missles since the historical advantages were heavily
armored hulls and massive artillery, none of which is required for
missle launching since it can be safely done from hundreds of miles
away. Cruise missles have an accuracy of about 10 feet or better vs
maybe 400 ft for a battleship's guns on a good day.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:52:31 +0100, Andy Champ
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:02:15 +0100, Andy Champ
wrote:

Reagan recommissioned a couple of battleships. While it seemed crazy
they performed very well for shore bombardment duties.
It was crazy. They performed well for a battleship but not compared
to modern precision guided munitions. Accuracy at typical range was
something like plus or minus 400 feet, close enough to scare your
target but not necessarily destroy it.

Odd, I thought I recalled them being used a cruise missile launchers
among other things...


They might have had some cruise missles also but that was secondary to
the big battleship guns. A battleship is a very inefficient platform
for launching missles since the historical advantages were heavily
armored hulls and massive artillery, none of which is required for
missle launching since it can be safely done from hundreds of miles
away. Cruise missles have an accuracy of about 10 feet or better vs
maybe 400 ft for a battleship's guns on a good day.


The New Jersey was used extensively in Nam because of it's pinpoint
accuracy. Once a spotter walks the battleship onto the target, its all over.
The way it worked was a spotter (often a small single engine, unarmed
plane (bird dog)) would tell the battleship the coordinates of the next
target. The BS would fire one round and the spotter would radio back a
spot. It often took only two or three spots and that was all she wrote.
Even our little 5 inchers were deadly accurate but you had to have
either a spotter or the target had to be visible so your rangefinder
could input to the computer.
The shells for 5 inch and up used powder bags separate from the
projectile. The powder bags were weighed and powder temp recorded and
the computer adjusted for these figures. The gyro stabilized everything.
So the spotter says I've got an NVA village and here are the
coordinates. You pop in a round. The spotter says thats good, fire for
effect. So you send in some high explosive set for a 50' air burst, you
send in another with slightly different range and bearing, and you do
this until the village is leveled. Then you start over doing the same
thing only using willie peter (white phosphorus) and you burn up what
you flattened.
Not as accurate as a cruise missle, but then GPS wasn't even a thought
at that time.
Gordon

Gordon wrote:

Then you start over doing the same thing only using willie peter (white
phosphorus) and you burn up what you flattened.

Ah yes, dropping white phosphorous onto unarmed women and children,
something to be proud of.

Steve Firth wrote:
Gordon wrote:

Then you start over doing the same thing only using willie peter (white
phosphorus) and you burn up what you flattened.

Ah yes, dropping white phosphorous onto unarmed women and children,
something to be proud of.

Nope, they never survived the HE!
Gordon

On 18 Aug, 01:53, (Steve Firth) wrote:
Gordon wrote:
Then you start over doing the same thing only using willie peter (white
phosphorus) and you burn up what you flattened.

Ah yes, dropping white phosphorous onto unarmed women and children,
something to be proud of.

They still got their sorry asses whupped, though.

Ian

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:53:12 +0100, (Steve Firth)
wrote this crap:

Gordon wrote:

Then you start over doing the same thing only using willie peter (white
phosphorus) and you burn up what you flattened.

Ah yes, dropping white phosphorous onto unarmed women and children,
something to be proud of.


I certainly am. Death and Destruction go a long way.

Vote for Palin-Arhnold in 2012.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Gordon wrote:

Then you start over doing the same thing only using willie peter (white
phosphorus) and you burn up what you flattened.

Ah yes, dropping white phosphorous onto unarmed women and children,
something to be proud of.

That's like people worrying about laser dot sighting damaging eyesight. No
worries about the copper jacketed lead slug that follows the little red dot.

"Gordon" wrote in message
m...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:52:31 +0100, Andy Champ
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:02:15 +0100, Andy Champ
wrote:

Reagan recommissioned a couple of battleships. While it seemed crazy
they performed very well for shore bombardment duties.
It was crazy. They performed well for a battleship but not compared
to modern precision guided munitions. Accuracy at typical range was
something like plus or minus 400 feet, close enough to scare your
target but not necessarily destroy it.

Odd, I thought I recalled them being used a cruise missile launchers
among other things...
[snipped]

The New Jersey was used extensively in Nam because of it's pinpoint
accuracy. Once a spotter walks the battleship onto the target, its all
over.
The way it worked was a spotter (often a small single engine, unarmed
plane (bird dog)) would tell the battleship the coordinates of the next
target. The BS would fire one round and the spotter would radio back a
spot. It often took only two or three spots and that was all she wrote.
Even our little 5 inchers were deadly accurate but you had to have either
a spotter or the target had to be visible so your rangefinder could input
to the computer.
The shells for 5 inch and up used powder bags separate from the
projectile. The powder bags were weighed and powder temp recorded and the
computer adjusted for these figures. The gyro stabilized everything.
So the spotter says I've got an NVA village and here are the
coordinates. You pop in a round. The spotter says thats good, fire for
effect. So you send in some high explosive set for a 50' air burst, you
send in another with slightly different range and bearing, and you do this
until the village is leveled. Then you start over doing the same thing
only using willie peter (white phosphorus) and you burn up what you
flattened.
Not as accurate as a cruise missle, but then GPS wasn't even a thought at
that time.
Gordon

One of my former bosses used to get put ashore in Vietnam to climb hills and
spot from there.
Said it took him a couple of days to get where he was going and not so much
to get out (downhill).
Hoges in WA

On Aug 17, 3:42*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:52:31 +0100, Andy Champ
wrote:



Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:02:15 +0100, Andy Champ
wrote:

Reagan recommissioned a couple of battleships. *While it seemed crazy
they performed very well for shore bombardment duties.

It was crazy. *They performed well for a battleship but not compared
to modern precision guided munitions. *Accuracy at typical range was
something like plus or minus 400 feet, close enough to scare your
target but not necessarily destroy it.

Odd, I thought I recalled them being used a cruise missile launchers
among other things...

They might have had some cruise missles also but that was secondary to
the big battleship guns. * A battleship is a very inefficient platform
for launching missles since the historical advantages were heavily
armored hulls and massive artillery, none of which is required for
missle launching since it can be safely done from hundreds of miles
away. * Cruise missles have an accuracy of about 10 feet or better vs
maybe 400 ft for a battleship's guns on a good day.


Nah, the battleship guns were quite accurate... many times in WW2 they
could blow open shore fortifications quicker & easier (and with a lot
less risk) than an attack bomber. It's been recorded that many ships
not only hit the target with great accuracy but then put another shell
thru the same hole. And that was with 60+ year old technology.
Nowadays they track the shell in-flight with the SPY-1 radar & AEGIS
system.... no need for forward observers.

Another point... 16" shells are relatively cheap & a battleship holds
a LOT (iirc the lower magazines can carry 800 per turret). It's a very
efficient fighting platform, especially considering the survivability.
Suicide bombers can blow themselves up against the side of the hull, a-
la Cole, all day every day.

The reason why the battleships are history is that they are out of gun
barrels. They had a huge stockpile of 16/45 gun tubes left over from
WW2 but nobody can make them any more. I think the USS IOWA & her
sisters are officially retired and placed as memorials, but the
machinery is still under nitrogen blankets, so they might just be able
to be recalled.

Regards- Doug King ...ex-BT1(SW)