Larry wrote:
wrote in
:


snip

My offer still stands to put sterile jars of your RO water and my
distiller water on the dock for the summer then we'll both drink what's
in it the last day of August.....

But, the reality is this is irrelevant as a test, and totally
meaningless as any form of standard. The air you breathe is not
sterile, nor is the food you eat, nor is the finger you pick your nose
with. RO water is *not* guaranteed (nor likely) sterile...so what? The
container you store it in, and the glass you drink it from is not
sterile either. That's why you chlorinate water that's going to be
stored, because it will always have some baseline bioburden, and stored
under ideal conditions, without a biocide or preservative, will grow
out. When your fecal matter comes out sterile, then you can start
worrying about making sure your drinking water is always *sterile* (of
course, you'll be dead at that point, but...)

I'm sure DoD has some superbugs in their illegal arsenal of biological
warfare agents no distiller can kill.....But, when it comes to purifying
hose water from the sewage the city delivers as drinking
water....Distillers work much better than anything available, including
RO.

These are not superbugs, or DoD creations. G. stearothermophilus is
common in hot springs, and is used routinely for qualification of moist
heat sterilization processes. In fact, it won't even grow at all below
about 125°F. B. subtilis/atrophaeus is a common bacillus
species/subspecies (found in soils, grasses, and even used in gardens as
a fungicide), used routinely for qualification of dry heat and gamma
irradiation sterilization processes. Neither is considered a human
pathogen, which is why they are used as bioindicator (challenge) organisms.

Distillation works fine, and other than energy usage, doesn't have too
many downsides. But you need a lot more specificity when it comes to
defining "better" relative to drinking water production. Tens of
millions of people worldwide drink RO water without an issue. High
temperature distillate will typically have a lower bioburden *from the
still* than RO. But, when coupled with the charcoal bed needed to
remove volatile organics that carryover from the distillation process,
you have the same type of bioburden issues. Carbon beds are perfect
incubators, providing a marvelous substrate, far better than RO
membranes in fact, as well as a ready carbon source for bacterial growth.

The point is, both systems work fine for drinking water, as long as the
process is understood by the user, and the inherent process risks are
addressed through routine maintenance and sensible use. Long term
storage of water, without a suitable growth inhibitor, is just bad
practice irrespective of the purification process used.

And I *still* say you must have been bitten by an RO unit as a child... :-)

Keith Hughes

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 22:03:55 -0700, wrote:

And I *still* say you must have been bitten by an RO unit as a child... :-)

Keith Hughes

I think you're right, Keith! Larry is apparently just a tad fanatic
about drinking water :-)

Keith wrote in a previous post:
My
experience is with units in the 2000-3000gph range, typically running
24/7 with treated city water as feed. Still require routine cleaning,
and biocide treatment.

I'm curious. Do these systems use the same 10% recovery rate?

More curiosity points...

I wonder how surface area, volume, etc. scale up. That's about 1,000
times as much product water, so does that mean surface area of the
membrane is 1,000 times more?

What's the difference between seawater, brackish water and fresh water
membranes? I've read it's the permeability, but are the "holes"
smaller or larger for the seawater compared to the fresh water? Or the
same size; is it the pressure rating instead? Is the seawater more or
less prone to fouling than the fresh water?

No answers required. Just wondering.


The bottom line, in my opinion, is that an RO system on a cruising
boat, especially on one like ours that spend months "away from
civilization", is the best answer for all fresh water needs. We're a
sailboat with solar panels and a wind generator that keep the
batteries up.

Yes, it does require care and work. I would say it's more work taking
off the sailcover and replacing it than to maintain the RO system.
Like the sailcover, if you don't do it, you'll pay for it. In the case
of the sailcover, a new mainsail; in the case of the RO a new
membrane.

Rick Morel

wrote in :

Tens of
millions of people worldwide drink RO water without an issue.

Tens of millions of people drink lake water, too, "without an issue". But,
I don't think we're being honest with any of them over the LONG TERM what
these pathogens will do to them over time.....



--
-----
Larry
You can tell there's very intelligent life in the Universe
because none of them have ever tried to contact us.....

"Larry" wrote in message
...
wrote in :

Tens of
millions of people worldwide drink RO water without an issue.

Tens of millions of people drink lake water, too, "without an issue".
But,
I don't think we're being honest with any of them over the LONG TERM what
these pathogens will do to them over time.....



--
-----
Larry
You can tell there's very intelligent life in the Universe
because none of them have ever tried to contact us.....


No one gets out alive.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:
"Larry" wrote in message
...
wrote in :

Tens of
millions of people worldwide drink RO water without an issue.
Tens of millions of people drink lake water, too, "without an issue".
But,
I don't think we're being honest with any of them over the LONG TERM what
these pathogens will do to them over time.....



--
-----
Larry
You can tell there's very intelligent life in the Universe
because none of them have ever tried to contact us.....


No one gets out alive.

Damn! I *had* hoped...

Keith Hughes

wrote in message
...

Capt. JG wrote:
"Larry" wrote in message
...
wrote in
:

Tens of
millions of people worldwide drink RO water without an issue.
Tens of millions of people drink lake water, too, "without an issue".
But,
I don't think we're being honest with any of them over the LONG TERM
what
these pathogens will do to them over time.....



--
-----
Larry
You can tell there's very intelligent life in the Universe
because none of them have ever tried to contact us.....


No one gets out alive.

Damn! I *had* hoped...

Keith Hughes


Who knows... there's always an exception to the rule.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:
wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
"Larry" wrote in message
...
wrote in
:

Tens of
millions of people worldwide drink RO water without an issue.
Tens of millions of people drink lake water, too, "without an issue".
But,
I don't think we're being honest with any of them over the LONG TERM
what
these pathogens will do to them over time.....



--
-----
Larry
You can tell there's very intelligent life in the Universe
because none of them have ever tried to contact us.....

No one gets out alive.
Damn! I *had* hoped...

Keith Hughes


Who knows... there's always an exception to the rule.


Two, so far, but they are few and far between...

On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 01:02:50 +0000, Larry wrote:

wrote in :

Tens of
millions of people worldwide drink RO water without an issue.

Tens of millions of people drink lake water, too, "without an issue". But,
I don't think we're being honest with any of them over the LONG TERM what
these pathogens will do to them over time.....

I have to wonder about what was in the water that YOU drank.

Larry wrote:
wrote in :

Tens of
millions of people worldwide drink RO water without an issue.

Tens of millions of people drink lake water, too, "without an issue". But,
I don't think we're being honest with any of them over the LONG TERM what
these pathogens will do to them over time.....

You're assuming that RO water *has* pathogens in it. Lake water
typically does. But the fact that so many do drink lake water "without
an issue" gives you a very good sense of the *scale* of the problem
you're so concerned with. As a practical matter, very few bacteria
present any problem at all in the stomach unless their population is
very high, and a well maintained RO systems generate very low bioburden
permeate.

Keith Hughes

wrote in
:

Larry wrote:
wrote in
:

Tens of
millions of people worldwide drink RO water without an issue.

Tens of millions of people drink lake water, too, "without an issue".
But, I don't think we're being honest with any of them over the LONG
TERM what these pathogens will do to them over time.....

You're assuming that RO water *has* pathogens in it. Lake water
typically does. But the fact that so many do drink lake water
"without an issue" gives you a very good sense of the *scale* of the
problem you're so concerned with. As a practical matter, very few
bacteria present any problem at all in the stomach unless their
population is very high, and a well maintained RO systems generate
very low bioburden permeate.

Keith Hughes



Man it's hard to get real information from the net in the horrendous NOISE
from the RO manufacturers and sellers!

There's just all this conflicting BULL****!