In article ,
says...
In article ,
says...
The heck with this battery water stuff. Go Lithium-ion!
http://www.genasun.com/genasunbattery.shtml
Only 5 grand a pop!
Gordon

Which raises a question about battery-driven cars. Those LiH batteries
don't last very long in my laptop computer. How long will they last in a
car given normal neglect?


Hybrid cars are designed to keep the batteries between 70 and 100
percent charged at all times. That won't be so easy with
an all-electric car. However, they may have the system
set up to use less than the full capacity of the batteries to
prolong the life.


Mark Borgerson

"Mark Borgerson" wrote in message
g...
In article ,
says...
In article ,
says...
The heck with this battery water stuff. Go Lithium-ion!
http://www.genasun.com/genasunbattery.shtml
Only 5 grand a pop!
Gordon

Which raises a question about battery-driven cars. Those LiH batteries
don't last very long in my laptop computer. How long will they last in a
car given normal neglect?


Hybrid cars are designed to keep the batteries between 70 and 100
percent charged at all times. That won't be so easy with
an all-electric car. However, they may have the system
set up to use less than the full capacity of the batteries to
prolong the life.

Even if the dial on the dashboard is set to indicate 'recharge' when the
battery falls to, say, 70%, people out on the road are going to discover
that you can go on driving for quite a while after this so the battery is
likely to go much lower than planned on many occasions.
Current advertisements suggest battery life will be about 5 years but I
suspect this is optimistic for reason above.
When a large and complex battery needs replacing, say after 5 years, the way
auto spares are priced will ensure that it will be more sensible to buy a
new car and start afresh rather than spending as much as a 5 year old car is
worth in order to renew its battery. And do not forget there is sure to be
an 'environmental' charge to safely dispose of the toxic substances in the
old battery.

"Edgar" wrote in
:

Even if the dial on the dashboard is set to indicate 'recharge' when
the battery falls to, say, 70%, people out on the road are going to
discover that you can go on driving for quite a while after this so
the battery is likely to go much lower than planned on many occasions.
Current advertisements suggest battery life will be about 5 years but
I suspect this is optimistic for reason above.
When a large and complex battery needs replacing, say after 5 years,
the way auto spares are priced will ensure that it will be more
sensible to buy a new car and start afresh rather than spending as
much as a 5 year old car is worth in order to renew its battery. And
do not forget there is sure to be an 'environmental' charge to safely
dispose of the toxic substances in the old battery.



The outrageous cost of hybrid car battery replacement, beyond the car
company's masking warranty, will ensure these cars have near zero resale
value if the used car buyer is staring at a $4000 battery pack replacement
in the face in the used car lot. This must make new car dealers simply
elated. The ultimate used car is one that is worthless at the end of the
payment book. Hybrids will be the ultimate used car.

So, you actually save nothing buying a hybrid exoticar noone but a
$150/hour dealer jacking up parts prices 500% can repair. You either keeps
swapping cars, which is just STUPID at these outrageous car prices.....or
pay thousands and thousands at some point for a battery pack it MUST have!

It's why I'm driving diesel Mercedes cars, even if they weren't running on
free fuel from Chinese restaurants.....(c;]

UPS trucks are diesels for a reason, you know.....None of them are hybrids
or electric. Ask yourself why....

--
-----
Larry
You can tell there's very intelligent life in the Universe
because none of them have ever tried to contact us.....

In article ,
says...
"Edgar" wrote in
:

Even if the dial on the dashboard is set to indicate 'recharge' when
the battery falls to, say, 70%, people out on the road are going to
discover that you can go on driving for quite a while after this so
the battery is likely to go much lower than planned on many occasions.
Current advertisements suggest battery life will be about 5 years but
I suspect this is optimistic for reason above.
When a large and complex battery needs replacing, say after 5 years,
the way auto spares are priced will ensure that it will be more
sensible to buy a new car and start afresh rather than spending as
much as a 5 year old car is worth in order to renew its battery. And
do not forget there is sure to be an 'environmental' charge to safely
dispose of the toxic substances in the old battery.



The outrageous cost of hybrid car battery replacement, beyond the car
company's masking warranty, will ensure these cars have near zero resale
value if the used car buyer is staring at a $4000 battery pack replacement
in the face in the used car lot. This must make new car dealers simply
elated. The ultimate used car is one that is worthless at the end of the
payment book. Hybrids will be the ultimate used car.

So, you actually save nothing buying a hybrid exoticar noone but a
$150/hour dealer jacking up parts prices 500% can repair. You either keeps
swapping cars, which is just STUPID at these outrageous car prices.....or
pay thousands and thousands at some point for a battery pack it MUST have!

It's why I'm driving diesel Mercedes cars, even if they weren't running on
free fuel from Chinese restaurants.....(c;]

UPS trucks are diesels for a reason, you know.....None of them are hybrids
or electric. Ask yourself why....


I'd rather ask why you didn't check with UPS before writing that:

"Hybrid Electric Vehicles
UPS has researched and tested hybrid electric technology since 1998. In
2000, the company deployed a hybrid electric vehicle in its Huntsville,
Ala. operations on a 31-mile route, making 150 pickups and deliveries
each day. UPS deployed a second-generation HEV that operated in
Kalamazoo, Mich. for several months during 2004. In 2007, UPS deployed
50 third-generation hybrid electric vehicles in Atlanta, Dallas, Houston
and Phoenix.

The company is in the process of deploying 50 third-generation hybrid
electric vehicles. These vehicles promise a 45 percent improvement in
fuel economy over the vehicles they are replacing. The 50 vehicles are
expected to collectively reduce fuel consumption by 44,000 gallons
annually. These trucks will reduce CO2 by 457 metric tons annually. UPS
recently announced an order for 200 hybrid electric vehicles - the
largest commercial order of such trucks by any company. The new HEVs
will be deployed in 2009 and are expected to save 176,000 gallons of
fuel and reduce CO2 emissions by 1,786 metric tons each year. "

http://www.pressroom.ups.com/mediaki...05,879,00.html


Mark Borgerson

Mark Borgerson wrote in
g:

In article ,
says...
In article ,
says...
The heck with this battery water stuff. Go Lithium-ion!
http://www.genasun.com/genasunbattery.shtml
Only 5 grand a pop!
Gordon

Which raises a question about battery-driven cars. Those LiH
batteries don't last very long in my laptop computer. How long will
they last in a car given normal neglect?


Hybrid cars are designed to keep the batteries between 70 and 100
percent charged at all times. That won't be so easy with
an all-electric car. However, they may have the system
set up to use less than the full capacity of the batteries to
prolong the life.


Mark Borgerson



Lithium-Ion batteries in any product will not discharge past 50% as
there is a built-in nanny IC in ever battery that prevents deep
discharge, which destroys them completely.

Li-Ion, unlike Ni-Cd or Ni-Mh, are FLOAT batteries like your boat. The
less you discharge them, the longer they live. What's killing his
laptop is he leaves it discharged, rather than immediately recharging it
asap, or doesn't recharge it until it's fully run down, the complete
enemy of the Li-Ion battery pack. Continuously discharging a laptop
battery to the point of shutdown....then leaving it in this state for
hours instead of diligently recharging asap just kills them.
REcharging, even if only discharged 5%, asap will make them last the
life of the laptop. Leaving them plugged in with the CHARGED light on
does NOT destroy laptop batteries.

There is one problem with Li-Ion battery packs....out of sync. The
discharge curve stored in the IC gets further and further from the real
charge state as time goes by in all Li-Ion/Li-Polymer battery packs.
So, they APPEAR to hold less and less charge over time. What happens is
the charging state IC's charging curve becomes out-of-sync with battery
reality. To reset this IC, discharge the battery as far as the IC will
allow you to, to the point of automatic shutdown...then, IMMEDIATELY
recharge fully to recharge autoshutdown. Test the battery runtime and
if it's still shorter than it was, repeat this procedure no more than
three times. If it continues to fail, the battery pack is defective and
should be replaced. But, you'll find many "bad batteries" will simply
restore after 1 or 2 "cyclings" to reset the IC's charging curve to
reality.

My Gateway laptop and its original battery pack are 9 years old. The
battery pack has been "reset" about every 6 months since it was new,
recharging in between these resets (above procedure) as soon as possible
no matter how much it was discharged by portable operation. Battery
pack runtime is down around 10-15% in 9 years of operation like this,
which is way beyond its service life. A little care and loving can
really extend a Li-Ion/Li-Polymer battery life.

NEVER RUN DOWN YOUR SELLPHONE BATTERY ANY MORE THAN YOU ABSOLUTELY
MUST...Plug it back in to recharge at every opportunity and stop
bragging about you only have to charge it twice a month. Do the above
deep cycle once every 6 months. You'll never need another battery for
it. Leave it plugged in as much as you can really lengthens its service
life. DEEP CYCLING Li-Ion/Li-Polymer batteries over and over is
suicide...just like a boat battery.


--
-----
Larry
You can tell there's very intelligent life in the Universe
because none of them have ever tried to contact us.....