We have been cruising internationally since 1991. We have changed
insurers several times (including Blue Water, Barnett, Jack Martin),
mostly because we could not get quotes in a timely manner. We prefer to
bind the insurance at least a month in advance so we can get the policy
and make adjustments as needed. We are currently insured by IMIS. Last
winter, we changed our itinerary. It necessitated a policy change to
include worldwide coverage. The adjustments were made by a phone call
from Trinidad to IMIS. We charged the additional premium. Yes, it was
charged immediately, but this was desirable so we knew we would be
covered, and we got confirmation (including the new policy coverages)
via email before we left. We only paid for the time period needed. We
didn't mind loosing a few dollars of interest (actually, with the
decline in the stock market, it probably saved us money).

Hanz

Well, thanks for being there Gary and June. You've been great in
answering all of our questions, which coming from the 'mate' being a
former insurance underwriter, were not just run of the mill.

You obviously know your business well and what's just as important to
us, you know boats. We've run the gamut of marine insurance brokers
who can't seem to get across to companies that there are in fact 28
foot boats worth well over $100K and quite capable of crossing oceans.

When we first arrived back in the states after a two year engineless
passage from San Francisco to Florda throught the Panama Canal, one
company at first said we would need more crew than two and have to
'buddy boat' if we wanted to go to the Bahamas from Miami. When they
found out our boat was only 28 feet they refused coverage on all
accounts because 'boats that small can't make that trip'.

Thanks again for your very professional efforts,


Paul Martin

US Federal law.

Could you tell us what law this is? I'm curious because I put in an Amazon
order yesterday and they say it might be shipping tomorrow, but the charges
have
already shown on my credit card. I know that many venders honor the practice
of
only billing after shipping, but I don't think its the law.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
it is in the agreement that payment is made upon order, otherwise the law
is
clear.

dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before
services are
rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?

Are you sure about that? I have had a web-shop, using PayPal. The moment
someone ordered a product, Paypal immediately charged his/her creditcard
and
an e-mail was sent to me to inform me of the payment made so I could ship
the goods. This is standard practise. Now don't tell me the entire Paypal
system would be against federal law.

Meindert

Gary, you should have kept your mouth shut.

Being Vice-president of IMIS I would first like to express my
appreciation to my client Geoff Schultz who, despite his concern with
our service, was willing to post our responses so that others could
fairly form their own judgements about our agency.

Now I must say that it is heartwarming to find that others are willing
to defend our agency based on their own good experiences and/or based
on the facts of this particular case.

I am also glad to see the astute academic discussion of credit card
charges and when they should be made, to which I have something to
add:

From our perspective, since we are not an insurance company but rather
an insurance sales agency, our services are rendered at the time that
a policy is issued, so it is not material when the policy takes
effect. Of course, if a client wants to wait until the last minute to
receive his policy we are willing to accomodate an explicit request
that we delay a credit card charge and subsequent issuance of the
policy, but most cruisers are very glad of the opportunity to get
their policy in advance so that they have time to read it before it
actually takes effect.

~GARY GOLDEN, International Marine Insurance Services

In other words, you don't know, you just made it up. Typical jaxie - make up
nonsense and then try to bluff your way out.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
US Federal law.

Could you tell us what law this is? I'm curious because I put in an Amazon
order yesterday and they say it might be shipping tomorrow, but the charges
have
already shown on my credit card. I know that many venders honor the practice
of
only billing after shipping, but I don't think its the law.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
it is in the agreement that payment is made upon order, otherwise the law
is
clear.

dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before
services are
rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?

Are you sure about that? I have had a web-shop, using PayPal. The moment
someone ordered a product, Paypal immediately charged his/her creditcard
and
an e-mail was sent to me to inform me of the payment made so I could ship
the goods. This is standard practise. Now don't tell me the entire Paypal
system would be against federal law.

Meindert

jeffies, is was -- to say the least -- very big news some time back. ask your
wife to explain it to you.

In other words, you don't know, you just made it up. Typical jaxie - make up
nonsense and then try to bluff your way out.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
US Federal law.

Could you tell us what law this is? I'm curious because I put in an
Amazon
order yesterday and they say it might be shipping tomorrow, but the
charges
have
already shown on my credit card. I know that many venders honor the
practice
of
only billing after shipping, but I don't think its the law.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
it is in the agreement that payment is made upon order, otherwise the
law
is
clear.

dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before
services are
rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?

Are you sure about that? I have had a web-shop, using PayPal. The
moment
someone ordered a product, Paypal immediately charged his/her
creditcard
and
an e-mail was sent to me to inform me of the payment made so I could
ship
the goods. This is standard practise. Now don't tell me the entire
Paypal
system would be against federal law.

Meindert

On a whim, I did a simple google and within a few minutes found a number of docs
on the FTC site, such as:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1996/06/cybersho.htm

It appears that the requirement is a good faith effort to ship within 30 days.
Some credit card companies may require "ship before bill" but it is not the law.

BTW, I usually pay Boat/US by credit card, and they always say "do you want me
to charge this now?" Since its usually a few days before renewal, (and well
within the grace period) I always say yes.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, is was -- to say the least -- very big news some time back. ask your
wife to explain it to you.

In other words, you don't know, you just made it up. Typical jaxie - make up
nonsense and then try to bluff your way out.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
US Federal law.

Could you tell us what law this is? I'm curious because I put in an
Amazon
order yesterday and they say it might be shipping tomorrow, but the
charges
have
already shown on my credit card. I know that many venders honor the
practice
of
only billing after shipping, but I don't think its the law.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
it is in the agreement that payment is made upon order, otherwise the
law
is
clear.

dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before
services are
rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?

Are you sure about that? I have had a web-shop, using PayPal. The
moment
someone ordered a product, Paypal immediately charged his/her
creditcard
and
an e-mail was sent to me to inform me of the payment made so I could
ship
the goods. This is standard practise. Now don't tell me the entire
Paypal
system would be against federal law.

Meindert

What I see here is a basic lack of communications. G. Schultz being an
basically honest citizen contacted IMIS Insurance to: 1.) inform them that
he was planning to leave the states, 2.) that he had changed credit card
providers and to provide the new card data for their records (only) 3.)
attempt to determine the policy renewal fees in order to setup his
"pay-on-line" (cash). IMIS Insurance company personnel were not listening
to there customer and took the filing of the revised credit card as a
request or allowance for immediate payment by the card without providing Mr.
Schultz the opportunity to pay cash through his "on-line" account.
Both parties involved Mr. Schultz as the customer and the IMIS personnel
involved acted in good faith based upon their perspective of what was stead
in that fateful call. Perceiving or interpreting the message from their
perspective points of view. Looking at their two very different
interpretations what was attempted to be communicated by that call both are
absolutely correct though radically different.
Mr. Schultz feels that he has been screwed in the transaction and IMIS feels
that they are being wrongly accused of screwing their client.
What is the answer? 1. Mr. Schultz should transact all future dealings with
IMIS (or any other company) in writing (a phone call can be made to confirm
the transaction) and IMIS acting in good faith give Mr.. Schultz the cash
discount even though the incurred the extra credit card payment expense
through this misunderstanding. The monetary value of the discount is small
in compared to the loss of customers this incident can generate.
Well I have had my say
Jim


wrote in message
...
On 10 Jun 2004 15:27:51 -0700, (Geoff Schultz)
wrote:

This article details what I consider to be extremely shady billing
practices of IMIS (International Marine Insurance Services) with whom
I and many others boaters have insurance. I'm currently sailing in
Honduras.


It all sounds perfectly fine to me. They did their best to placate a
customer
with selective memory who assumed that everyone knows what he is thinking
without him saying anything..

BB

jeffies, you screwed up *again*. what you quoted is the FTC regulation
regarding ship after order date for mail orders. It is a $10,000 fine to ship
*after* 30 days *after* an order.

The charging only after shipment or customer authorization to charge earlier is
in no way related to the FTC 30-Day Mail Order rule.

It is against the law to charge a credit card before shipment unless specificly
authorized by the credit card user.

On a whim, I did a simple google and within a few minutes found a number of
docs
on the FTC site, such as:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1996/06/cybersho.htm

It appears that the requirement is a good faith effort to ship within 30
days.
Some credit card companies may require "ship before bill" but it is not the
law.

BTW, I usually pay Boat/US by credit card, and they always say "do you want
me
to charge this now?" Since its usually a few days before renewal, (and well
within the grace period) I always say yes.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, is was -- to say the least -- very big news some time back. ask
your
wife to explain it to you.

In other words, you don't know, you just made it up. Typical jaxie - make
up
nonsense and then try to bluff your way out.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
US Federal law.

Could you tell us what law this is? I'm curious because I put in an
Amazon
order yesterday and they say it might be shipping tomorrow, but the
charges
have
already shown on my credit card. I know that many venders honor the
practice
of
only billing after shipping, but I don't think its the law.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
it is in the agreement that payment is made upon order, otherwise the
law
is
clear.

dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before
services are
rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?

Are you sure about that? I have had a web-shop, using PayPal. The
moment
someone ordered a product, Paypal immediately charged his/her
creditcard
and
an e-mail was sent to me to inform me of the payment made so I could
ship
the goods. This is standard practise. Now don't tell me the entire
Paypal
system would be against federal law.

Meindert

Sorry jaxie, you're still making up BS. Here's another FTC link, which is
pretty explicit that goods must be shipped within 30 days of payment. However,
there is no "$10,000" penalty, there are guidelines for how to offer to return
the money.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/.../mailorder.htm

"When you offer to sell merchandise, you must have a "reasonable basis" for:
any express or implied shipment representation, or
believing you can ship within 30 days of receipt of an order -- if you
make no shipment representation or if the shipment representation is not clear
and conspicuous.
....
The "clock" on your obligation to ship or take other action under the Rule
begins as soon as you receive a "properly completed" order. An order is properly
completed when you receive the correct full or partial (in whatever form you
accept) payment, accompanied by all the information you need to fill the order.
Payment may be by cash, check, money order, the customer’s authorization to
charge an existing account (including one you have created for the customer),
the customer’s application to you for credit to pay for the order, or any
substitute for these transactions that you accept.
It is irrelevant when you post or deposit payment, when checks clear, or when
your bank credits your account. The clock begins to run when you receive a
properly completed order."


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, you screwed up *again*. what you quoted is the FTC regulation
regarding ship after order date for mail orders. It is a $10,000 fine to
ship
*after* 30 days *after* an order.

The charging only after shipment or customer authorization to charge earlier
is
in no way related to the FTC 30-Day Mail Order rule.

It is against the law to charge a credit card before shipment unless
specificly
authorized by the credit card user.

On a whim, I did a simple google and within a few minutes found a number of
docs
on the FTC site, such as:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1996/06/cybersho.htm

It appears that the requirement is a good faith effort to ship within 30
days.
Some credit card companies may require "ship before bill" but it is not the
law.

BTW, I usually pay Boat/US by credit card, and they always say "do you want
me
to charge this now?" Since its usually a few days before renewal, (and well
within the grace period) I always say yes.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, is was -- to say the least -- very big news some time back. ask
your
wife to explain it to you.

In other words, you don't know, you just made it up. Typical jaxie - make
up
nonsense and then try to bluff your way out.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
US Federal law.

Could you tell us what law this is? I'm curious because I put in an
Amazon
order yesterday and they say it might be shipping tomorrow, but the
charges
have
already shown on my credit card. I know that many venders honor the
practice
of
only billing after shipping, but I don't think its the law.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
it is in the agreement that payment is made upon order, otherwise the
law
is
clear.

dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before
services are
rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?

Are you sure about that? I have had a web-shop, using PayPal. The
moment
someone ordered a product, Paypal immediately charged his/her
creditcard
and
an e-mail was sent to me to inform me of the payment made so I could
ship
the goods. This is standard practise. Now don't tell me the entire
Paypal
system would be against federal law.

Meindert