it is in the agreement that payment is made upon order, otherwise the law is
clear.

dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before
services are
rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?

Are you sure about that? I have had a web-shop, using PayPal. The moment
someone ordered a product, Paypal immediately charged his/her creditcard and
an e-mail was sent to me to inform me of the payment made so I could ship
the goods. This is standard practise. Now don't tell me the entire Paypal
system would be against federal law.

Meindert

Could you tell us what law this is? I'm curious because I put in an Amazon
order yesterday and they say it might be shipping tomorrow, but the charges have
already shown on my credit card. I know that many venders honor the practice of
only billing after shipping, but I don't think its the law.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
it is in the agreement that payment is made upon order, otherwise the law is
clear.

dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before
services are
rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?

Are you sure about that? I have had a web-shop, using PayPal. The moment
someone ordered a product, Paypal immediately charged his/her creditcard and
an e-mail was sent to me to inform me of the payment made so I could ship
the goods. This is standard practise. Now don't tell me the entire Paypal
system would be against federal law.

Meindert

It's kind of a fine point, but I suspect the difference is that PayPal
is a middle man, rather than the vendor of the widget that's being
bought. When someone sends money via PayPal, that's just what they are
doing. "Sending money". Their transaction with PayPal is to send
money, not buy the widget. It's kind of a fine point, and I'm no
lawyer, but it's more like you're wiring money to someone via PayPal
than buying the end product from PayPal.

Meindert Sprang wrote:
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...

dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before

services are

rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?


Are you sure about that? I have had a web-shop, using PayPal. The moment
someone ordered a product, Paypal immediately charged his/her creditcard and
an e-mail was sent to me to inform me of the payment made so I could ship
the goods. This is standard practise. Now don't tell me the entire Paypal
system would be against federal law.

Meindert



--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

When I pay any bill whether it be via check or charge, I normally
pay it when I receive it. The company I pay deposits the check or
chargves my credit card as soon as they get it. They never wait
until the due day. It has been this way forever. I know alot of
folks that wait until the last minute to pay their bills to earn that
last little bit of interest, or to avoid finance charges inthe case
of credit cards. This is normal practice. What happened to
Geoff is neither unusual nor is it illegal in any sense.

Doug
s/v Callista

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before
services are
rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?

Oh! THAT'S why the name rings a bell. I couldn't figure out why anyone
would be complaining about Al Golden. He moved heaven and earth to get
a builder's risk policy on RUTU when nobody else would even talk to
me. Geoff needs to chill a little and think ahead. IMS did exactly
what they understood he wanted. Besides, who pays an insurance bill by
credit card anyway? With internet banking you can pay your bills when
you want to from Timbuktu.

Doug Dotson wrote:

Gee Geoff. It seems that trouble seems to follow you around.
Perhaps IMIS followed your rediculous rant against Fischer-
Panda and figured they better get their money while they
could. Is your solution to everything to air out your dirty
laundry online hoping to find someone to support your
position? If you can't come to terms with IMIS then cancel your
policy. There are plenty of other companies out there that
will gladly insure you. That is unless your litigious nature
is so well known now that folks would rather stear clear.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Being Vice-president of IMIS I would first like to express my
appreciation to my client Geoff Schultz who, despite his concern with
our service, was willing to post our responses so that others could
fairly form their own judgements about our agency.

Now I must say that it is heartwarming to find that others are willing
to defend our agency based on their own good experiences and/or based
on the facts of this particular case.

I am also glad to see the astute academic discussion of credit card
charges and when they should be made, to which I have something to
add:

From our perspective, since we are not an insurance company but rather
an insurance sales agency, our services are rendered at the time that
a policy is issued, so it is not material when the policy takes
effect. Of course, if a client wants to wait until the last minute to
receive his policy we are willing to accomodate an explicit request
that we delay a credit card charge and subsequent issuance of the
policy, but most cruisers are very glad of the opportunity to get
their policy in advance so that they have time to read it before it
actually takes effect.

~GARY GOLDEN, International Marine Insurance Services

Well, Al, thanks for clearing up that I do NOT want to do business
with you and your company.

I have 2 quotes from June Cottrell in your company for cruising
coverage - I won't consider pursueing a business relationship with
companies like yours. Your lack of service and understanding might be
acceptable to the other "cruisers" who never leave the marina (or
building yard) - but not cruisers in remote areas.

From my perspective, it's very hard to have a nit picky relationship
when I'n in the Tuomotus or PNG or Chagos or other remote area.

Thanks again for clarifying your Customer Service policy as it applies
to cruisers.



On 11 Jun 2004 07:17:14 -0700, (~GARY GOLDEN,
International Marine Insurance Services) wrote:

Being Vice-president of IMIS I would first like to express my
appreciation to my client Geoff Schultz who, despite his concern with
our service, was willing to post our responses so that others could
fairly form their own judgements about our agency.

Now I must say that it is heartwarming to find that others are willing
to defend our agency based on their own good experiences and/or based
on the facts of this particular case.

I am also glad to see the astute academic discussion of credit card
charges and when they should be made, to which I have something to
add:

From our perspective, since we are not an insurance company but rather
an insurance sales agency, our services are rendered at the time that
a policy is issued, so it is not material when the policy takes
effect. Of course, if a client wants to wait until the last minute to
receive his policy we are willing to accomodate an explicit request
that we delay a credit card charge and subsequent issuance of the
policy, but most cruisers are very glad of the opportunity to get
their policy in advance so that they have time to read it before it
actually takes effect.

~GARY GOLDEN, International Marine Insurance Services

Well, thanks for being there Gary and June. You've been great in
answering all of our questions, which coming from the 'mate' being a
former insurance underwriter, were not just run of the mill.

You obviously know your business well and what's just as important to
us, you know boats. We've run the gamut of marine insurance brokers
who can't seem to get across to companies that there are in fact 28
foot boats worth well over $100K and quite capable of crossing oceans.

When we first arrived back in the states after a two year engineless
passage from San Francisco to Florda throught the Panama Canal, one
company at first said we would need more crew than two and have to
'buddy boat' if we wanted to go to the Bahamas from Miami. When they
found out our boat was only 28 feet they refused coverage on all
accounts because 'boats that small can't make that trip'.

Thanks again for your very professional efforts,


Paul Martin

Gary, you should have kept your mouth shut.

Being Vice-president of IMIS I would first like to express my
appreciation to my client Geoff Schultz who, despite his concern with
our service, was willing to post our responses so that others could
fairly form their own judgements about our agency.

Now I must say that it is heartwarming to find that others are willing
to defend our agency based on their own good experiences and/or based
on the facts of this particular case.

I am also glad to see the astute academic discussion of credit card
charges and when they should be made, to which I have something to
add:

From our perspective, since we are not an insurance company but rather
an insurance sales agency, our services are rendered at the time that
a policy is issued, so it is not material when the policy takes
effect. Of course, if a client wants to wait until the last minute to
receive his policy we are willing to accomodate an explicit request
that we delay a credit card charge and subsequent issuance of the
policy, but most cruisers are very glad of the opportunity to get
their policy in advance so that they have time to read it before it
actually takes effect.

~GARY GOLDEN, International Marine Insurance Services

I would like to note that IMIS has NOT forwarded my payment on to the
insurance carrier as of yet. They've pocketed my $5000 for 2 months
despite having made 2 payments to the carrier per their e-mail to me.
If anyone doubts their motivation they need to rethink their stance.

People have asked why I payed by credit card. The answer is simple.
They couldn't tell me the exact amount before I left for Belize. Once
I got there I wouldn't have Internet access.

-- Geoff Schultz in Guatemala


(~GARY GOLDEN, International Marine Insurance Services) wrote in message . com...
Being Vice-president of IMIS I would first like to express my
appreciation to my client Geoff Schultz who, despite his concern with
our service, was willing to post our responses so that others could
fairly form their own judgements about our agency.

Now I must say that it is heartwarming to find that others are willing
to defend our agency based on their own good experiences and/or based
on the facts of this particular case.

I am also glad to see the astute academic discussion of credit card
charges and when they should be made, to which I have something to
add:

From our perspective, since we are not an insurance company but rather
an insurance sales agency, our services are rendered at the time that
a policy is issued, so it is not material when the policy takes
effect. Of course, if a client wants to wait until the last minute to
receive his policy we are willing to accomodate an explicit request
that we delay a credit card charge and subsequent issuance of the
policy, but most cruisers are very glad of the opportunity to get
their policy in advance so that they have time to read it before it
actually takes effect.

~GARY GOLDEN, International Marine Insurance Services