it is still against the law unless there are specific words in the agreement to
bill prior.

An insurance policy is cosidered "shipped" when it is written. NOT when
it goes into effect. Check your automobile policy. You will start
getting billed about 2 months before expiration.

If you want to get technical, the actual "product" is not completely
rendered until the end of the term. Fat chance an insurance company
will settle for that.

JAXAshby wrote:

dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before services
are
rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?



--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

it is in the agreement that payment is made upon order, otherwise the law is
clear.

dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before
services are
rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?

Are you sure about that? I have had a web-shop, using PayPal. The moment
someone ordered a product, Paypal immediately charged his/her creditcard and
an e-mail was sent to me to inform me of the payment made so I could ship
the goods. This is standard practise. Now don't tell me the entire Paypal
system would be against federal law.

Meindert

Could you tell us what law this is? I'm curious because I put in an Amazon
order yesterday and they say it might be shipping tomorrow, but the charges have
already shown on my credit card. I know that many venders honor the practice of
only billing after shipping, but I don't think its the law.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
it is in the agreement that payment is made upon order, otherwise the law is
clear.

dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before
services are
rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?

Are you sure about that? I have had a web-shop, using PayPal. The moment
someone ordered a product, Paypal immediately charged his/her creditcard and
an e-mail was sent to me to inform me of the payment made so I could ship
the goods. This is standard practise. Now don't tell me the entire Paypal
system would be against federal law.

Meindert

Being Vice-president of IMIS I would first like to express my
appreciation to my client Geoff Schultz who, despite his concern with
our service, was willing to post our responses so that others could
fairly form their own judgements about our agency.

Now I must say that it is heartwarming to find that others are willing
to defend our agency based on their own good experiences and/or based
on the facts of this particular case.

I am also glad to see the astute academic discussion of credit card
charges and when they should be made, to which I have something to
add:

From our perspective, since we are not an insurance company but rather
an insurance sales agency, our services are rendered at the time that
a policy is issued, so it is not material when the policy takes
effect. Of course, if a client wants to wait until the last minute to
receive his policy we are willing to accomodate an explicit request
that we delay a credit card charge and subsequent issuance of the
policy, but most cruisers are very glad of the opportunity to get
their policy in advance so that they have time to read it before it
actually takes effect.

~GARY GOLDEN, International Marine Insurance Services

It's kind of a fine point, but I suspect the difference is that PayPal
is a middle man, rather than the vendor of the widget that's being
bought. When someone sends money via PayPal, that's just what they are
doing. "Sending money". Their transaction with PayPal is to send
money, not buy the widget. It's kind of a fine point, and I'm no
lawyer, but it's more like you're wiring money to someone via PayPal
than buying the end product from PayPal.

Meindert Sprang wrote:
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...

dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before

services are

rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?


Are you sure about that? I have had a web-shop, using PayPal. The moment
someone ordered a product, Paypal immediately charged his/her creditcard and
an e-mail was sent to me to inform me of the payment made so I could ship
the goods. This is standard practise. Now don't tell me the entire Paypal
system would be against federal law.

Meindert



--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

When I pay any bill whether it be via check or charge, I normally
pay it when I receive it. The company I pay deposits the check or
chargves my credit card as soon as they get it. They never wait
until the due day. It has been this way forever. I know alot of
folks that wait until the last minute to pay their bills to earn that
last little bit of interest, or to avoid finance charges inthe case
of credit cards. This is normal practice. What happened to
Geoff is neither unusual nor is it illegal in any sense.

Doug
s/v Callista

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before
services are
rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?

On 11 Jun 2004 11:48:10 -0500, Dave wrote:

Jax is admitted to practice?

====================================

It's pretty clear that he's been admitted to the bar. The question is
how many on any given night.

Well, Al, thanks for clearing up that I do NOT want to do business
with you and your company.

I have 2 quotes from June Cottrell in your company for cruising
coverage - I won't consider pursueing a business relationship with
companies like yours. Your lack of service and understanding might be
acceptable to the other "cruisers" who never leave the marina (or
building yard) - but not cruisers in remote areas.

From my perspective, it's very hard to have a nit picky relationship
when I'n in the Tuomotus or PNG or Chagos or other remote area.

Thanks again for clarifying your Customer Service policy as it applies
to cruisers.



On 11 Jun 2004 07:17:14 -0700, (~GARY GOLDEN,
International Marine Insurance Services) wrote:

Being Vice-president of IMIS I would first like to express my
appreciation to my client Geoff Schultz who, despite his concern with
our service, was willing to post our responses so that others could
fairly form their own judgements about our agency.

Now I must say that it is heartwarming to find that others are willing
to defend our agency based on their own good experiences and/or based
on the facts of this particular case.

I am also glad to see the astute academic discussion of credit card
charges and when they should be made, to which I have something to
add:

From our perspective, since we are not an insurance company but rather
an insurance sales agency, our services are rendered at the time that
a policy is issued, so it is not material when the policy takes
effect. Of course, if a client wants to wait until the last minute to
receive his policy we are willing to accomodate an explicit request
that we delay a credit card charge and subsequent issuance of the
policy, but most cruisers are very glad of the opportunity to get
their policy in advance so that they have time to read it before it
actually takes effect.

~GARY GOLDEN, International Marine Insurance Services

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote ...
Besides, who pays an insurance bill by
credit card anyway?

I do. I pay everything with a CC. I get points.


Scotty
S/V Lisa Marie
Balt. MD USA

I have been driving since I was 16 and I am now 55. I have ALWAYS had
insurance. NEVER have I been billed prior to coverage. The coverage
starts the day you pay. If that was the case you would constantly be
charged two or three months in advance. It don't work that way. I too
had problems with IMIS in getting quotes, then getting correct quotes.
When someone ask me about my problem, instead of Mr. Golden trying to
reclaim an unhappy customer, he threatened to sue me for "slander" as
he put it. Others have reported like issues with IMIS. If Geoff has
had issues with IMIS, Fischer Panda or anyone else I would like to
know about it. Since I do leave the dock occasionally and don't need
additional hassles when I am trying to enjoy cruising. I then look for
other information to confirm there is a problem. That is how all of
this is supposed to work. Otherwise, go sit in front of the TV and
forget these groups. They are for sharing information, good and BAD.
If you have a problem reading the bad, then skip those posts.


Glenn Ashmore wrote in message news:CL8yc.6577$5B2.20@lakeread04...
An insurance policy is cosidered "shipped" when it is written. NOT when
it goes into effect. Check your automobile policy. You will start
getting billed about 2 months before expiration.

If you want to get technical, the actual "product" is not completely
rendered until the end of the term. Fat chance an insurance company
will settle for that.

JAXAshby wrote:

dougeies, it is against federal law to charge a credit card before services are
rendered/product is shipped. What word don't you understand?