On Wed, 19 May 2004 08:00:06 -0700, Stephen Trapani
wrote:

One problem you may run into if you have an old, well used Groco is
that eventually the piston and cylinder wears. It has plastic piston
rings and will work well after being rebuilt but the rings will wear
more rapidly then if the clearance was as originally built. I believe
that if I bought a boat with what appeared to be a really hard used
Groco I'd ask the factory about the piston to cylinder clearence and
possibly a factory rebuild. Other then that the Groco is ,as properly
English made suits are describbed -- something you can leave to your
Grandson in your will, wish I had mine back. The Groco that is, still
got the Grand kid :-)



The indespensible Peggie Hall wrote:


And do follow the instructions when you rebuild it. It's not a job
that's particularly intuitive unless you know a good bit more about how
marine toilets work and the functions of the various parts than you know
yet...and it's so much cheaper and easier to do it right the first time
than it is to do it over.

Super cool! Thanks so much for all the help. I'm happy to discover I
landed the Rolls Royce of toilets! ;-) The way I see it I've gotten
pretty lucky buying this boat, and, um, well, um not counting needing
the new shaft, prop, um cutlass bearing, um, four broken motor mounts,
running rigging and um, nevermind all that!

Anyway...

I ordered the Groco Type K refurbish kit as suggested ($110) and plan to
fix the toilet myself, but one quick question. The two guys here who
mentioned sending in their Type K's to have Groco do the refurbish made
me a little nervous. Groco said they include an exploded diagram and
instructions. Is there anything about this job I need special tools for
or that is way difficult? I'm pretty handy on everything from cuckoo
clocks to house foundations, not to mention spines (I'm a
chiropractor!). So... no big deal?

Stephen

Cheers,

Bruce
(reply to k4556[at]inet[dot]co[dot]th)

Doug Dotson wrote:
I have 2 Groco Type K heads. One has worked very well, the
other has become the bain of my existence. I have gone through
3 rebuild kits and it still has problems. I flush and after a short time
water bubbles back up into the bowl. Funny thing is that it worked
perfectly for 2 years then all of a sudden this problem popped
up.

If you mean that waste or flushwater is backing up into the bowl, I
don't think the toilet is the source of your problem, Doug...I'd bet the
problem is downstream of the toilet...something is creating backpressure.






Doug
s/v Callista

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...

So, thanks to the descriptions you all gave me of having to remount a
new toilet and thanks to the chance of saving money, I'm enquiring on if
I can repair the toilet I have. It's a Groco Type K, I can't find any
other numbers or model name other parts numbers on the handle and such.
Anyway, I took off the little backing plate on the back of the toilet
near the bottom with the water intake nipple. Under it is a flat piece
of rubber about 2"X3." It has a flap cut into the middle it with square
piece of flat metal attached to it. Is this the joker valve? The metal
piece contacts the internal portion of the foot pedal.

Just above the metal piece attached to the flat rubber is a tear in the
rubber. Should I fix this? How do I do so? Can I get a replacement part?
Does this make enough sense for anyone to have any ideas about what I
should do?

Thanks,

Stephen





--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

Several years ago I rebuilt one that had the cylinder wall worn to
where the piston would cock just enough to cause it to bind sometimes.
I had replaced the rings but still had the problem.

I talked to the factory repair place and the guy told me that I would
need to replace the piston and cylinder. Expensive!
He told me that all pistons are not created equal. That some are a
little smaller than others and vise versa. I think that I sent the
cylinder to him and he rummaged around in some of the old parts he had
and found a piston that was a little over sized to replace mine with.
That did the trick. No more problems.

So, talk to the repair place. They are very helpful.

Regards
Gary


On Wed, 19 May 2004 21:29:19 -0700, Junkman
wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2004 08:00:06 -0700, Stephen Trapani
wrote:

One problem you may run into if you have an old, well used Groco is
that eventually the piston and cylinder wears. It has plastic piston
rings and will work well after being rebuilt but the rings will wear
more rapidly then if the clearance was as originally built. I believe
that if I bought a boat with what appeared to be a really hard used
Groco I'd ask the factory about the piston to cylinder clearence and
possibly a factory rebuild. Other then that the Groco is ,as properly
English made suits are describbed -- something you can leave to your
Grandson in your will, wish I had mine back. The Groco that is, still
got the Grand kid :-)



The indespensible Peggie Hall wrote:


And do follow the instructions when you rebuild it. It's not a job
that's particularly intuitive unless you know a good bit more about how
marine toilets work and the functions of the various parts than you know
yet...and it's so much cheaper and easier to do it right the first time
than it is to do it over.

Super cool! Thanks so much for all the help. I'm happy to discover I
landed the Rolls Royce of toilets! ;-) The way I see it I've gotten
pretty lucky buying this boat, and, um, well, um not counting needing
the new shaft, prop, um cutlass bearing, um, four broken motor mounts,
running rigging and um, nevermind all that!

Anyway...

I ordered the Groco Type K refurbish kit as suggested ($110) and plan to
fix the toilet myself, but one quick question. The two guys here who
mentioned sending in their Type K's to have Groco do the refurbish made
me a little nervous. Groco said they include an exploded diagram and
instructions. Is there anything about this job I need special tools for
or that is way difficult? I'm pretty handy on everything from cuckoo
clocks to house foundations, not to mention spines (I'm a
chiropractor!). So... no big deal?

Stephen

Cheers,

Bruce
(reply to k4556[at]inet[dot]co[dot]th)

The order on my refurbish kit hasn't actually gone through. There is
still turning back now. Am I understanding correctly that there is a
decent chance I will pay the $110, put in the whole kit and the toilet
still won't work??

Stephen


Gary Schafer wrote:

Several years ago I rebuilt one that had the cylinder wall worn to
where the piston would cock just enough to cause it to bind sometimes.
I had replaced the rings but still had the problem.

I talked to the factory repair place and the guy told me that I would
need to replace the piston and cylinder. Expensive!
He told me that all pistons are not created equal. That some are a
little smaller than others and vise versa. I think that I sent the
cylinder to him and he rummaged around in some of the old parts he had
and found a piston that was a little over sized to replace mine with.
That did the trick. No more problems.

So, talk to the repair place. They are very helpful.

Regards
Gary


On Wed, 19 May 2004 21:29:19 -0700, Junkman
wrote:


On Wed, 19 May 2004 08:00:06 -0700, Stephen Trapani
wrote:

One problem you may run into if you have an old, well used Groco is
that eventually the piston and cylinder wears. It has plastic piston
rings and will work well after being rebuilt but the rings will wear
more rapidly then if the clearance was as originally built. I believe
that if I bought a boat with what appeared to be a really hard used
Groco I'd ask the factory about the piston to cylinder clearence and
possibly a factory rebuild. Other then that the Groco is ,as properly
English made suits are describbed -- something you can leave to your
Grandson in your will, wish I had mine back. The Groco that is, still
got the Grand kid :-)




The indespensible Peggie Hall wrote:



And do follow the instructions when you rebuild it. It's not a job
that's particularly intuitive unless you know a good bit more about how
marine toilets work and the functions of the various parts than you know
yet...and it's so much cheaper and easier to do it right the first time
than it is to do it over.

Super cool! Thanks so much for all the help. I'm happy to discover I
landed the Rolls Royce of toilets! ;-) The way I see it I've gotten
pretty lucky buying this boat, and, um, well, um not counting needing
the new shaft, prop, um cutlass bearing, um, four broken motor mounts,
running rigging and um, nevermind all that!

Anyway...

I ordered the Groco Type K refurbish kit as suggested ($110) and plan to
fix the toilet myself, but one quick question. The two guys here who
mentioned sending in their Type K's to have Groco do the refurbish made
me a little nervous. Groco said they include an exploded diagram and
instructions. Is there anything about this job I need special tools for
or that is way difficult? I'm pretty handy on everything from cuckoo
clocks to house foundations, not to mention spines (I'm a
chiropractor!). So... no big deal?

Stephen

Cheers,

Bruce
(reply to k4556[at]inet[dot]co[dot]th)

I guess you meant Joker Valve. Each rebuild kit comes with one and
I replaced it each time. Just recommissioned it today and it still does
the same thing.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Doug Dotson" wrote:

I have 2 Groco Type K heads. One has worked very well, the
other has become the bain of my existence. I have gone through
3 rebuild kits and it still has problems. I flush and after a short time
water bubbles back up into the bowl. Funny thing is that it worked
perfectly for 2 years then all of a sudden this problem popped
up.

Sounds like it's time for a new choker valve.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

The only thing that could do that is the vented loops. I have one
at the exit if the head, another at the exit of the LectraSan. Both
are about 3-4' higher than the base. Strange thing is that this setup
worked flawlessly for 2 years then all of a sudden started acting up.

Last time I rebuilt it, I checked and cleaned every mating surface
where new gaskets went. Still no luck.

Doug
s/v Callista
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
Doug Dotson wrote:
I have 2 Groco Type K heads. One has worked very well, the
other has become the bain of my existence. I have gone through
3 rebuild kits and it still has problems. I flush and after a short time
water bubbles back up into the bowl. Funny thing is that it worked
perfectly for 2 years then all of a sudden this problem popped
up.

If you mean that waste or flushwater is backing up into the bowl, I
don't think the toilet is the source of your problem, Doug...I'd bet the
problem is downstream of the toilet...something is creating backpressure.






Doug
s/v Callista

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...

So, thanks to the descriptions you all gave me of having to remount a
new toilet and thanks to the chance of saving money, I'm enquiring on if
I can repair the toilet I have. It's a Groco Type K, I can't find any
other numbers or model name other parts numbers on the handle and such.
Anyway, I took off the little backing plate on the back of the toilet
near the bottom with the water intake nipple. Under it is a flat piece
of rubber about 2"X3." It has a flap cut into the middle it with square
piece of flat metal attached to it. Is this the joker valve? The metal
piece contacts the internal portion of the foot pedal.

Just above the metal piece attached to the flat rubber is a tear in the
rubber. Should I fix this? How do I do so? Can I get a replacement part?
Does this make enough sense for anyone to have any ideas about what I
should do?

Thanks,

Stephen





--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

Unfortunately, that has been my recent enperience.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
The order on my refurbish kit hasn't actually gone through. There is
still turning back now. Am I understanding correctly that there is a
decent chance I will pay the $110, put in the whole kit and the toilet
still won't work??

Stephen


Gary Schafer wrote:

Several years ago I rebuilt one that had the cylinder wall worn to
where the piston would cock just enough to cause it to bind sometimes.
I had replaced the rings but still had the problem.

I talked to the factory repair place and the guy told me that I would
need to replace the piston and cylinder. Expensive!
He told me that all pistons are not created equal. That some are a
little smaller than others and vise versa. I think that I sent the
cylinder to him and he rummaged around in some of the old parts he had
and found a piston that was a little over sized to replace mine with.
That did the trick. No more problems.

So, talk to the repair place. They are very helpful.

Regards
Gary


On Wed, 19 May 2004 21:29:19 -0700, Junkman
wrote:


On Wed, 19 May 2004 08:00:06 -0700, Stephen Trapani
wrote:

One problem you may run into if you have an old, well used Groco is
that eventually the piston and cylinder wears. It has plastic piston
rings and will work well after being rebuilt but the rings will wear
more rapidly then if the clearance was as originally built. I believe
that if I bought a boat with what appeared to be a really hard used
Groco I'd ask the factory about the piston to cylinder clearence and
possibly a factory rebuild. Other then that the Groco is ,as properly
English made suits are describbed -- something you can leave to your
Grandson in your will, wish I had mine back. The Groco that is, still
got the Grand kid :-)




The indespensible Peggie Hall wrote:



And do follow the instructions when you rebuild it. It's not a job
that's particularly intuitive unless you know a good bit more about
how
marine toilets work and the functions of the various parts than you
know
yet...and it's so much cheaper and easier to do it right the first
time
than it is to do it over.

Super cool! Thanks so much for all the help. I'm happy to discover I
landed the Rolls Royce of toilets! ;-) The way I see it I've gotten
pretty lucky buying this boat, and, um, well, um not counting needing
the new shaft, prop, um cutlass bearing, um, four broken motor mounts,
running rigging and um, nevermind all that!

Anyway...

I ordered the Groco Type K refurbish kit as suggested ($110) and plan
to
fix the toilet myself, but one quick question. The two guys here who
mentioned sending in their Type K's to have Groco do the refurbish made
me a little nervous. Groco said they include an exploded diagram and
instructions. Is there anything about this job I need special tools for
or that is way difficult? I'm pretty handy on everything from cuckoo
clocks to house foundations, not to mention spines (I'm a
chiropractor!). So... no big deal?

Stephen

Cheers,

Bruce
(reply to k4556[at]inet[dot]co[dot]th)

Doug Dotson wrote:
I guess you meant Joker Valve.

No...I meant downstream of the whole toilet.

The only thing that could do that is the vented loops.

Nope...they're the least likely candidate...worst case in a vented loop
is, it becomes just a loop, unvented.

Likely possibilities are sea water calcium carbonate buildup in the head
discharge line (did you take a look inside when you had it off to
rebuild the toilet?) or a partial clog created by something that
shouldn't have been flushed--which can be in the line, or in the L/S if
you've flushed solids or TP without running it...or a barnacle may have
attached itself to the discharge thru-hull, preventing the L/S from
discharging.

Whatever it is, look downstream of the whole toilet...'cuz backup into
the bowl can only mean one thing: something downstream of the toilet is
creating backpressure that won't allow the flush to pass. The longer it
takes for the backup to appear in the bowl, the further downstream of
the toilet it's likely to be.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

Stephen Trapani wrote:
The order on my refurbish kit hasn't actually gone through. There is
still turning back now. Am I understanding correctly that there is a
decent chance I will pay the $110, put in the whole kit and the toilet
still won't work??

If something has failed in the toilet that isn't in the kit, yep. But
the good news is, you'll be intimately acquainted with the toilet's
innards and, with a little help from Groco, should able to fix anything
else yourself too.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

Thanks for the advise Peggie. More comments below.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
Doug Dotson wrote:
I guess you meant Joker Valve.

No...I meant downstream of the whole toilet.

Actually, I was referring to the term "Choker Valve".

The only thing that could do that is the vented loops.

Nope...they're the least likely candidate...worst case in a vented loop
is, it becomes just a loop, unvented.

I've checked both the vents in the loops. They are fine.

Likely possibilities are sea water calcium carbonate buildup in the head
discharge line (did you take a look inside when you had it off to
rebuild the toilet?)

Yes, no serious buildup.

or a partial clog created by something that
shouldn't have been flushed--which can be in the line,

You mean other than doodoo, peepee, and TP? Nope.

or in the L/S if
you've flushed solids or TP without running it

Just reinstalled the L/S after being sent back to Raritan and rebuilt.

...or a barnacle may have
attached itself to the discharge thru-hull, preventing the L/S from
discharging.

That would have to be one mother of a barnacle Anyway, all
throughhulls were checked and serviced before we launched.

Whatever it is, look downstream of the whole toilet...'cuz backup into
the bowl can only mean one thing: something downstream of the toilet is
creating backpressure that won't allow the flush to pass. The longer it
takes for the backup to appear in the bowl, the further downstream of
the toilet it's likely to be.

Well, I'll start working through the system. I'll try switching the Y valve
to the holding tank as a start. Should at least isolate the problem.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1