Greetings group, I was wondering if anyone has had any trouble with epoxy
glue and white oak. I'm building several laminations here of thin white oak
to form frames, sheer clamps, stem etc. and I recently ran across something
in print that warned of glueing up oak in such a manner. So far it has been
trouble free for me but it seemed appropriate to ask the knowledge base at
this forum of their experiences before proceeding at full speed.

best regards, Mike Brannon,
24 foot gardner designed power dory in progress.

epxoides can be diluted with acid before they set. you can clean your
hands and tools with lemon juice or vinegar. all oaks contain tannin
(tannic acid) which dilutes epoxy and makes the bond weaker. white oaks
(english and burr) are lower in tannin than red oaks. you can sometimes
eat the acorns from white oaks without boiling off (leaching out) the
acid, hence the common name of sweet oak. you will have less dilution with
white oak.

boatbuilders usually recommend roughing up the surface of oak before
bonding with epoxy resin. you should be able to brush on something
like a soda solution to netralize the acid although I've never heard of
boatbuildiers doing it.


"Mike Brannon" ) writes:
Greetings group, I was wondering if anyone has had any trouble with epoxy
glue and white oak. I'm building several laminations here of thin white oak
to form frames, sheer clamps, stem etc. and I recently ran across something
in print that warned of glueing up oak in such a manner. So far it has been
trouble free for me but it seemed appropriate to ask the knowledge base at
this forum of their experiences before proceeding at full speed.

best regards, Mike Brannon,
24 foot gardner designed power dory in progress.




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"Mike Brannon" writes:
Greetings group, I was wondering if anyone has had any trouble with epoxy
glue and white oak.

Use resorcinol on white oak.


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

Mike, I glued-up white oak in the form of Towing bits

Hardwoods expand and contract more than softwoods. The risk of
delamination is higher with hardwoods. That may be where the warning
comes from.

--
Matt Langenfeld
JEM Watercraft
http://www.jemwatercraft.com


Mike Brannon wrote:
Greetings group, I was wondering if anyone has had any trouble with epoxy
glue and white oak. I'm building several laminations here of thin white oak
to form frames, sheer clamps, stem etc. and I recently ran across something
in print that warned of glueing up oak in such a manner. So far it has been
trouble free for me but it seemed appropriate to ask the knowledge base at
this forum of their experiences before proceeding at full speed.

best regards, Mike Brannon,
24 foot gardner designed power dory in progress.

How are they holding up? Any delamination?
I believe I read that alternating white oak with another hardwood(such as
mahogany) would solve the bonding issue.(If there really is an issue)
I have carefully prepared the surfaces prior to gluing up and used plenty of
clamps in my layups. Resorcinol would be great but I wanted to preserve the
looks(does it not stain?) and not have worries about voids between lams.
Also thinking that resorcinol requires a close fit and heavy pressure. Also
got gallons of Epoxy bought and paid.
regards mike

"WestlakeY" wrote in message
...
Mike, I glued-up white oak in the form of Towing bits

Mike,
To date I've only used Oak as a stem, and that was a 'glue {epoxy} and
screw' operation.

From what my research indicated, a 'glue only' procedure is similar to using
Teak or other 'troublesome wood. A good wipe-down with an Acetone or Lacquer
Thinner dampened cloth immediately before applying the epoxy/filler mix.

I agree, that there is a different coefficient of expansion/contraction
between woods. However, in a multi-layer lamination situation, the epoxy mix
will separate the different layers, plus there is the greater ratio of
epoxy-to-wood to consider.

As a thought, of the 'belt & suspenders school', I would consider using
'through-and-through wood pegs as both stabilizers and 'decoration'.

Because of the possibility that the wood COULD separate along it's own
structure {rather than at the actual epoxy joint, I would make up some test
samples. BOTH 'pegged' and 'unpegged' of at least 3 feet in length {long
enough to actually have enough wood 'movement pressure'.

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
{PS - one of my projects for a re-furb job, is to make an Oak-Mahogany
Tiller of about 3 feet in length. I'm guessing a 'blank' of about 3 x 2
inches - with 1/8 in lams. Maybe even 4 inches - enough to take care of the
'rise'.}
"Mike Brannon" wrote in message
news:IhQJc.3591$Zr.3105@okepread01...
Greetings group, I was wondering if anyone has had any trouble with epoxy
glue and white oak. I'm building several laminations here of thin white
oak
to form frames, sheer clamps, stem etc. and I recently ran across
something
in print that warned of glueing up oak in such a manner. So far it has
been
trouble free for me but it seemed appropriate to ask the knowledge base at
this forum of their experiences before proceeding at full speed.

best regards, Mike Brannon,
24 foot gardner designed power dory in progress.

I heard this too, but ultimately decided not to worry about it as I
glued up 6 layer laminate ribs in this 30 ft Carl Alberg designed wooden
sloop. No sign of any trouble in the following 6 years that I had the
boat. See: http://www.alberg30.org/CarlAlberg/WoodenBoats/Alestra/

good luck,

Jonathan

Mike Brannon wrote:
Greetings group, I was wondering if anyone has had any trouble with epoxy
glue and white oak. I'm building several laminations here of thin white oak
to form frames, sheer clamps, stem etc. and I recently ran across something
in print that warned of glueing up oak in such a manner. So far it has been
trouble free for me but it seemed appropriate to ask the knowledge base at
this forum of their experiences before proceeding at full speed.

best regards, Mike Brannon,
24 foot gardner designed power dory in progress.

Just a technical point. Acids don't "dilute" epoxy, they neutralize it
and prevent it from curing. That's why oak can be a problem. I prefer to
use polyurethane glue for bonding oak.

Acetone, lacquer thinner and denatured alcohol (among other things) can
be used to dilute (thin) epoxy and will not adversely affect the cure.
However, they can cause a reduction in strength if too much solvent is
used, as the amount of solids in the bond is reduced.



William R. Watt wrote:

epxoides can be diluted with acid before they set. you can clean your
hands and tools with lemon juice or vinegar. all oaks contain tannin
(tannic acid) which dilutes epoxy and makes the bond weaker. white oaks
(english and burr) are lower in tannin than red oaks. you can sometimes
eat the acorns from white oaks without boiling off (leaching out) the
acid, hence the common name of sweet oak. you will have less dilution with
white oak.

"Mike Brannon" wrote in message
news:IhQJc.3591$Zr.3105@okepread01...
Greetings group, I was wondering if anyone has had any trouble with epoxy
glue and white oak. I'm building several laminations here of thin white
oak
to form frames, sheer clamps, stem etc. and I recently ran across
something
in print that warned of glueing up oak in such a manner. So far it has
been
trouble free for me but it seemed appropriate to ask the knowledge base at
this forum of their experiences before proceeding at full speed.

I have built a 10' lapstrake dinghy (see www.customware.nl/boats) from
mahogany ply and used various pieces of white and red oak for transom knees
and gunwales. I glued them all with epoxy. I always sanded the oak across
the grain, as advised by Iain Oughtred and cleaned it with an acetone/xylene
based thinner. Never experienced any bonding problem. I even tried to
separate two blocks of oak glued together by driving a nail into the seam.
No luck, the oak broke next to the seam.

Meindert