Hi

"Drew Dalgleish" skrev i en meddelelse
...
When I built my prospector full size plans weren't available. I found
the instructions in the book to be pretty clear. Basically you just
plot the points from the lofting table on a large sheet of graph paper
then join the dots using a flexible batten to make a fair curve. Do
that for each station.

Isn't that what is already prepared, with full-scale plans ?

P.C.

"P.C." wrote in message
. ..

Isn't that what is already prepared, with full-scale plans ?

Fairing lines to a scale on a drafting board or a sheet of plywood, it
"lofting the lines".

Full scale is the only way to do a full loft. Sometimes in a very large
vessel the loft will be to half scale so it will fit on the loft floor. The
main objective is to get the mold station to produce fair lines on the
finished hull. Adjusting the molds, after the fact is not the correct place
to find the errors.

I know that the OP was about a 16ft canoe. However the reason I jump in
about using a full loft is because so often a first time builder will look
for any reason or recommendation to skip the full loft and get started
turning wood into a boat. Unless the designer has taken the results of a
full loft (or the computer equivalent) and done the correction to the table
of offsets, then the offset table should only be trusted for the full loft.


--
My opinion and experience. FWIW

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Hi

"Steve" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Unless the designer has taken the results of a
full loft (or the computer equivalent) and done the correction to the
table
of offsets, then the offset table should only be trusted for the full
loft.


Year , -- but meanwhile the measures must be transfered onto the material,
as the cut materials make up the actural hull. I mean you make the plans to
be able to show the lines not on paper, but on the materials so they can be
shaped into an assembly , ------- then with a heavy frame that must support
a panel , there will be a gab , unless the frames are marked with changing
angle both sides.
--------- Realy the spline for me ,alway's was the spline you place ontop
the rough timbers, before making them follow the planking some 90 pct. Realy
isn't this a bit old fasion, when you can shape the whole framework from
sheet material. Ever tried placing an oak frame in a Baltic trader ? --- if
so you will know there are a need for better technology , did you ever use a
vaccum cleaner to remove a rotten frame ? -------
Anyway first upscaling , then transfering must be less accurate, than
acturly producing the actural frame ,cut directly from the computer
drawings. This also allow for accurancy that make things possible ,that is
more difficult or somtimes impossible with tradisional means. Like forming
whatever assembly framework for whatever shape hull, in only sheet
materials.
P.C.

On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:28:17 +0200, "P.C."
wrote:

Hi

"Drew Dalgleish" skrev i en meddelelse
...
When I built my prospector full size plans weren't available. I found
the instructions in the book to be pretty clear. Basically you just
plot the points from the lofting table on a large sheet of graph paper
then join the dots using a flexible batten to make a fair curve. Do
that for each station.

Isn't that what is already prepared, with full-scale plans ?

P.C.


Yes but the OP is trying to save $75? by doing it himself. I'd
probably do the same thing and if he wants to come to southern ontario
he's welcome to take tracings from my stations.

Hi

"Drew Dalgleish" skrev i en meddelelse
...
On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:28:17 +0200, "P.C."
wrote:

Yes but the OP is trying to save $75? by doing it himself. I'd
probably do the same thing and if he wants to come to southern ontario
he's welcome to take tracings from my stations.

Now where I come from, 5 meter blueprint quality , greyscale print cost
round 10 £ or round 3 $ each meter running roll. -------- Have any of you
guy's ever just seriously checked what the cheapest endless print quality
acturly cost ?

Now I paied these money here in Dk. and ofcaurse I could have paied more if
I didn't ask around to find the cheapest Oce. profesional printworks , and
sure some print shops would rather sell the most expensive quality , but
this is just my experience ,that prices on blueprint black/white on 90 g.
paper is almost cheaper than you pay for the emty paper.
You proberly say that this is aswell to learn the art of lofting , but realy
you learn that just as well ,and add a lot of accurancy that in the end will
eliminiate a lot of foults, by typing in the cooerdinates in the table of
offsets into a simple CAD program.
What I mean is, that you can also se it that way that you realy get to know
the computer in front your face , by using it for storing the work , that
othervies soon get lost on a piece of paper ------- guess you know that
paper expand and schrink in air...........
So my point is, that to save money, to get a knowleage and skills about your
computer , to ensure that what you design is what you end up building , and
to make sure you have an original lofting , the computer is acturly better,
than the methods used for the past centuries.
I know the computer have a hard time getting accepted in these terms, realy
it is not enough for somone to go out and prove his words , even he made 20
boats from these new methods, and even his clients is in front of a computer
screen.
Now a few in this fora maby wonder why this Cyber-Boat guy don't offer these
services, but a few years ago what happened was, that I made agreament with
a printshop that would deliver for those cheap prices, and some guy wanted
to buy the whole lot of Cyber-Boat plans -------- ordered maby 500 meter
full-scale drawings and had them posted to england. This guy never payed
and even the arangement was clear as I did not earn on this , then this
action made sure that firm would not deal with me.
Still I do understand that if somone don't want new methods and smart new
way's to build . I mean you can be glad that you are not a skilled
autodidact who perform both beautifull boats and exiting architecture, as
then you would know the taste when somone say , who do you think you are ,do
you think you are more clever than us, ------- Now many amature designers
proberly have your cosy job and nice house and the amature drawings proberly
are a nice time killer, -------- but for the once that acturly develob new
methods and need the bread for his family, there are nothing as harmfull, as
somone that say "I can do that to" , or if he can not start a dirt campain
proving their true skills.

We been here before havn't we ? ------- still this time I can announce that
Cyber-Boat old site don't exist anymore. The original old homepage is
deleted and what's left of Cyber-Boat is this ;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat/

So this is about saving money ?

P.C.

A word of caution: Be careful about using someone elses boat as a
template or getting offsets from someone elses plans. Generally, plans
are sold to the buyer with the agreement to make one boat and not share
the plans or info in them with anyone else.



P.C. wrote:
Hi

"Drew Dalgleish" skrev i en meddelelse
...

On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:28:17 +0200, "P.C."
wrote:


Yes but the OP is trying to save $75? by doing it himself. I'd
probably do the same thing and if he wants to come to southern ontario
he's welcome to take tracings from my stations.

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:49:52 GMT, Matt Langenfeld
wrote:

A word of caution: Be careful about using someone elses boat as a
template or getting offsets from someone elses plans. Generally, plans
are sold to the buyer with the agreement to make one boat and not share
the plans or info in them with anyone else.

Generally that is true but the OP paid for the offset table when he
bought the canoecraft book. The book includes offsets for a bunch of
different canoes most of them were not designed by the author but are
from lines taken off other boats. The Chestnut Prospector has to be
one of the most copied boats ever

Yes but the OP is trying to save $75? by doing it himself. I'd
probably do the same thing and if he wants to come to southern ontario
he's welcome to take tracings from my stations.

Drew Dalgleish ) writes:

Generally that is true but the OP paid for the offset table when he
bought the canoecraft book. The book includes offsets for a bunch of
different canoes most of them were not designed by the author but are
from lines taken off other boats. The Chestnut Prospector has to be
one of the most copied boats ever

The prospectopr offsets in Moore's book were taken by Bill Mason off
his Chestnut Prospector, presumably before it had been all banged out
of shape. He is probably the only film maker who would use a beat up old
canvas canoe in a canoe instruction film. Truth in film making. Reality
film.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

The problem I have with Morre's offsets is that he copied many of his offsets off of existing craft that he neither drew or produced. Only about half of the offsets were copyrighted in the original books, The earlier versions of his book explained this very clearly and even showed you at length how to accomplish this. Then, in later versions of his book these sections were left out and several drawings were redrawn and copyrighted as his own designs.

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:03:32 +0200, "P.C."
wrote:

Hi

"Drew Dalgleish" skrev i en meddelelse
...
On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:28:17 +0200, "P.C."
wrote:

Yes but the OP is trying to save $75? by doing it himself. I'd
probably do the same thing and if he wants to come to southern ontario
he's welcome to take tracings from my stations.

Now where I come from, 5 meter blueprint quality , greyscale print cost
round 10 £ or round 3 $ each meter running roll. -------- Have any of you
guy's ever just seriously checked what the cheapest endless print quality
acturly cost ?

Now I paied these money here in Dk. and ofcaurse I could have paied more if
I didn't ask around to find the cheapest Oce. profesional printworks , and
sure some print shops would rather sell the most expensive quality , but
this is just my experience ,that prices on blueprint black/white on 90 g.
paper is almost cheaper than you pay for the emty paper.
You proberly say that this is aswell to learn the art of lofting , but realy
you learn that just as well ,and add a lot of accurancy that in the end will
eliminiate a lot of foults, by typing in the cooerdinates in the table of
offsets into a simple CAD program.
What I mean is, that you can also se it that way that you realy get to know
the computer in front your face , by using it for storing the work , that
othervies soon get lost on a piece of paper ------- guess you know that
paper expand and schrink in air...........
So my point is, that to save money, to get a knowleage and skills about your
computer , to ensure that what you design is what you end up building , and
to make sure you have an original lofting , the computer is acturly better,
than the methods used for the past centuries.
I know the computer have a hard time getting accepted in these terms, realy
it is not enough for somone to go out and prove his words , even he made 20
boats from these new methods, and even his clients is in front of a computer
screen.
Now a few in this fora maby wonder why this Cyber-Boat guy don't offer these
services, but a few years ago what happened was, that I made agreament with
a printshop that would deliver for those cheap prices, and some guy wanted
to buy the whole lot of Cyber-Boat plans -------- ordered maby 500 meter
full-scale drawings and had them posted to england. This guy never payed
and even the arangement was clear as I did not earn on this , then this
action made sure that firm would not deal with me.
Still I do understand that if somone don't want new methods and smart new
way's to build . I mean you can be glad that you are not a skilled
autodidact who perform both beautifull boats and exiting architecture, as
then you would know the taste when somone say , who do you think you are ,do
you think you are more clever than us, ------- Now many amature designers
proberly have your cosy job and nice house and the amature drawings proberly
are a nice time killer, -------- but for the once that acturly develob new
methods and need the bread for his family, there are nothing as harmfull, as
somone that say "I can do that to" , or if he can not start a dirt campain
proving their true skills.

We been here before havn't we ? ------- still this time I can announce that
Cyber-Boat old site don't exist anymore. The original old homepage is
deleted and what's left of Cyber-Boat is this ;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat/

So this is about saving money ?

P.C.


Well maybe it's about saving money or maybe the OP just wants to learn
how to loft. All the stations can be drawn on one sheet of paper less
than a metre square so I don't think that's going to add much to the
cost