a friend of mine has an open canoe made of glass 17 foot 6 inches long, the
boat was made in the early 70's by a neighbour to his own design, following
a conversation about the weight of it over a beer We have the go ahead to
use the hull as a mould. this canoe is ideal but far too heavy i.e 5mm
thick fibre glass. what i need to know is what reduction in weight could I
get by using kelvar or carbon fibre. I am looking for something that can be
loaded on the roof of an european car by one person easily. one of the lads
has an oldtown canoe the same size. But is a bit to heavy for one person,
the boat does not have to do rapids
is used on slow rivers just for fishing ie towed across lake by a boat
that cant go down this river. this is a great canoe but it needs more people
to lift it than can fit in it.
any ideas would be welcome

Look at canoe advertisements on websites for canoes the same size. Compare
the weight to yours in both fibreglass and kevlar. Its common for
manufacuters to offer the same model canoe in both materials. You won't
get the same light weight as the manufactureres do. I think it will be
difficult to get a 17.5 ft solo canoe. I'd suggest building a 14 ft solo
canoe. I had one in fibreglass that weighed 56 lb. For ultralight canoe
plans visit www.gaboats.com (skin over frame construction). My preference
would be for a plywood canoe for which there are lots of (free) plans on
the Interenet.

"asdf" ) writes:
a friend of mine has an open canoe made of glass 17 foot 6 inches long, the
boat was made in the early 70's by a neighbour to his own design, following
a conversation about the weight of it over a beer We have the go ahead to
use the hull as a mould. this canoe is ideal but far too heavy i.e 5mm
thick fibre glass. what i need to know is what reduction in weight could I
get by using kelvar or carbon fibre. I am looking for something that can be
loaded on the roof of an european car by one person easily. one of the lads
has an oldtown canoe the same size. But is a bit to heavy for one person,
the boat does not have to do rapids
is used on slow rivers just for fishing ie towed across lake by a boat
that cant go down this river. this is a great canoe but it needs more people
to lift it than can fit in it.
any ideas would be welcome




--
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William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
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what i need to know is what reduction in weight could I
get by using kelvar or carbon fibre. I am looking for something that can be
loaded on the roof of an european car by one person easily. one of the lads

You can get a good reduction simply by using foam stiffeners in the hull and
making it thinner. You can also use epoxy resin and forgo gelcoat for
painting. Study the making of canoe molds before you "leap" as (IIRC) they
need to flex for easier removal depending on the actual canoe design.. I
wouldn't use carbon fiber except maybe in a race canoe but kevlar is nice in
canoes. I have 2 of kevlar..
Greg Sefton

"asdf" wrote in
:

a friend of mine has an open canoe made of glass 17 foot 6 inches
long, the boat was made in the early 70's by a neighbour to his own
design, following a conversation about the weight of it over a beer We
have the go ahead to use the hull as a mould. this canoe is ideal but
far too heavy i.e 5mm thick fibre glass. what i need to know is what
reduction in weight could I get by using kelvar or carbon fibre. I am
looking for something that can be loaded on the roof of an european
car by one person easily. one of the lads has an oldtown canoe the
same size. But is a bit to heavy for one person, the boat does not
have to do rapids is used on slow rivers just for fishing ie towed
across lake by a boat that cant go down this river. this is a great
canoe but it needs more people to lift it than can fit in it.
any ideas would be welcome



Checkout the book:


Building Your Kevlar Canoe by James Moran

do a search at amazon for kevlar and youll find it.

--
EvilTwig


"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

ET ) writes:

Checkout the book:


Building Your Kevlar Canoe by James Moran

do a search at amazon for kevlar and youll find it.

you can "check out" the book from the Ottawa public library.

the person who mentioned the flexibility is correct. canoes have
tumblehome, ie the top is narrower than the widest point. the hull or
the mould has to flex, I don't know which or how to tell how much.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

thanks info very usefull lots of reading to do but this will be good
winter a project

"asdf" wrote in message
...
a friend of mine has an open canoe made of glass 17 foot 6 inches long,
the
boat was made in the early 70's by a neighbour to his own design,
following
a conversation about the weight of it over a beer We have the go ahead to
use the hull as a mould. this canoe is ideal but far too heavy i.e 5mm
thick fibre glass. what i need to know is what reduction in weight could
I
get by using kelvar or carbon fibre. I am looking for something that can
be
loaded on the roof of an european car by one person easily. one of the
lads
has an oldtown canoe the same size. But is a bit to heavy for one person,
the boat does not have to do rapids
is used on slow rivers just for fishing ie towed across lake by a boat
that cant go down this river. this is a great canoe but it needs more
people
to lift it than can fit in it.
any ideas would be welcome

(William R. Watt) wrote in
:

ET ) writes:

Checkout the book:


Building Your Kevlar Canoe by James Moran

do a search at amazon for kevlar and youll find it.

you can "check out" the book from the Ottawa public library.

the person who mentioned the flexibility is correct. canoes have
tumblehome, ie the top is narrower than the widest point. the hull or
the mould has to flex, I don't know which or how to tell how much.


--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
------- William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free
community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's
returned

In Moran's book the ends are left "open" ie un-connected until the boat
is removed from the mold. This adds significantly to the flexibility.

--
EvilTwig


"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

Greg - I built a 16 foot - 36 inch beam canoe in the '60's of wood and
fiberglas. This was a design of mine - scaled from a Canadian canoe design.
Mine weighs 56 pounds - and I have taken it down pretty good rapids many times.
One person can easily pick it up and walk off with it.

There was a wood-strip canoe design published in Popular Mechanics if I recall
correctly. I had a friend who made one from that design - which I don't
partularily like because of the low stem. It is also a bit narrower than the
36 inch beam on mine.

Materials: I suggest using polyester resins - but that also depends on other
factors. I made test sections using foam (urethane), wood, cardboard, epoxy
and polyester resins. From these tests, I made mine (two to be exact) using
wood strips and polyester resin. Making from scratch, the cheapest and
probably the best is wood strips and polyester resin. Realize that with
fiberglas, there are compatibility considerations.

Many do not realize the strength of fiberglas. That is, I am an engineer (well
- retired) and have used fiberglas on many items - including a pressure vessel.
On mine - at the keel area (10 inches either side of the keel), I have
(outside) 3 layers of 6 oz cloth, the wood and 2 layers of glass (inside) :
remaining bottom - and extending maybe 8- 10 inches up the side - 2 layers of
glass, the wood and 2 layers of glass and the remaining side area - 1 layer of
glass, the wood and 1 layer of glass.

I know of others who made the Popular Mechanics canoe and it weighed 108 pounds
- as I recall. I forget how many layers of glass that they put on that thing.

Let me know if I can be of further help. Jerry/Idaho

(Jtown2354) wrote in
:

Greg - I built a 16 foot - 36 inch beam canoe in the '60's of wood and
fiberglas. This was a design of mine - scaled from a Canadian canoe
design. Mine weighs 56 pounds - and I have taken it down pretty good
rapids many times.
One person can easily pick it up and walk off with it.

There was a wood-strip canoe design published in Popular Mechanics if
I recall correctly. I had a friend who made one from that design -
which I don't partularily like because of the low stem. It is also a
bit narrower than the 36 inch beam on mine.

Materials: I suggest using polyester resins - but that also depends
on other factors. I made test sections using foam (urethane), wood,
cardboard, epoxy and polyester resins. From these tests, I made mine
(two to be exact) using wood strips and polyester resin. Making from
scratch, the cheapest and probably the best is wood strips and
polyester resin. Realize that with fiberglas, there are compatibility
considerations.

Many do not realize the strength of fiberglas. That is, I am an
engineer (well - retired) and have used fiberglas on many items -
including a pressure vessel.
On mine - at the keel area (10 inches either side of the keel), I
have
(outside) 3 layers of 6 oz cloth, the wood and 2 layers of glass
(inside) : remaining bottom - and extending maybe 8- 10 inches up the
side - 2 layers of glass, the wood and 2 layers of glass and the
remaining side area - 1 layer of glass, the wood and 1 layer of glass.

I know of others who made the Popular Mechanics canoe and it weighed
108 pounds - as I recall. I forget how many layers of glass that they
put on that thing.

Let me know if I can be of further help. Jerry/Idaho


DON'T USE POLYESTER RESIN...... Use epoxy resin w/ a coupla coats of
varnish to inhibit UV.

--
EvilTwig


"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams