I have the opportunity to get hold of a 33 foot wooden sailboat -
basically for free (it comes from a divorce and the lady does not want
it anymore). It was a custom job and costed almost 150.000 US$ - the
rich guy tool.

The boat is 25 years old, is built of heavy mahagonay (carvel planked)
and was sitting the last 5 years *out* of the water, in a big shed.
Every winter the boat was sitting in the shed and was used only
sometime. Deck is perfect, no stains inside, no rot smell, no soft
spots.

The only problem: the boat has hairline (i guess up to 1/20 of inch
wide) cracks in some of the planks, both in the wet as in the
freeboard area.

So we had an expert had a look at it: he explained us that this is
normal - all wooden boat when taken out of the water will crack. Those
will close once the boat goes back to the water. I agree.

But then the owner of the yard where the boat is says that his applies
only for the wet area: the freeboard needs to be sealed again, and
this is their method:

cut a groove with a router over the hairline crack (let's say 1/10 of
a inch deep, 1/4 of a inch wide) and glue a mahagonay strip in the
groove. This in order to seal the boat - the thin strip has nothing to
do with structural problems or in order to stiffen the boat. This to
be repeated when new cracks appear.

Now i never heard of this method: my idea was to seal the cracks with
some caulking and repaint - if the plank then expand again they will
ev. squeeze some of the caulking out. Actually my original idea was to
do nothing at all, put the boat in the water and after some weeks
check where water is still coming in - then repair just those cracks
(judging from the water stains under the paint, this should affect
only two cracks quite high on the freeboard and close to the bow).

The method proposed by the yardowner looks overkill to me and i cannot
understand where the benefits are (the economic benefits for the
yardowner seem obvious, he would do the job). Beside this it will
alter the way the planks expand (the strip will act as a wedge) so it
will just cause cracks somewhere else.

So my question: is just applying some caulking good enough ? Or even
better the do-nothing and see what happens method even better ?

Remember i get the boat for (almost) free and I can do with less than
optimal results - no sense in throwing thousands at it.

Thanks
Matteo

My feeling is that it would be unwise to comment strongly either way without
seeing the boat.

i *might* be inclined to put it in the water with well charged batteries and
a couple of electric pumps....
Assuming she takes up and stops sinking within a week or two... I'd then
sail it someplace else....
The topsides will be slower to take up.... but by definition the problem is
above the waterline.....shrug

If it did not take up.... I'd get the yard to lift it out and do the
work.... (the cost of two lifts wont make a lot of difference to the overal
bill ... and the yard staff get the joy of saying "I told you so" Which
will give thier ego and morale a boost and they will work better for it

Heads I win
Tails I spend a few grand and get a 150 grand boat (and a smug yard
owner)

Did i miss something?

"Matteo" wrote in message
m...
I have the opportunity to get hold of a 33 foot wooden sailboat -
basically for free (it comes from a divorce and the lady does not want
it anymore). It was a custom job and costed almost 150.000 US$ - the
rich guy tool.

The boat is 25 years old, is built of heavy mahagonay (carvel planked)
and was sitting the last 5 years *out* of the water, in a big shed.
Every winter the boat was sitting in the shed and was used only
sometime. Deck is perfect, no stains inside, no rot smell, no soft
spots.

The only problem: the boat has hairline (i guess up to 1/20 of inch
wide) cracks in some of the planks, both in the wet as in the
freeboard area.

So we had an expert had a look at it: he explained us that this is
normal - all wooden boat when taken out of the water will crack. Those
will close once the boat goes back to the water. I agree.

But then the owner of the yard where the boat is says that his applies
only for the wet area: the freeboard needs to be sealed again, and
this is their method:

cut a groove with a router over the hairline crack (let's say 1/10 of
a inch deep, 1/4 of a inch wide) and glue a mahagonay strip in the
groove. This in order to seal the boat - the thin strip has nothing to
do with structural problems or in order to stiffen the boat. This to
be repeated when new cracks appear.

Now i never heard of this method: my idea was to seal the cracks with
some caulking and repaint - if the plank then expand again they will
ev. squeeze some of the caulking out. Actually my original idea was to
do nothing at all, put the boat in the water and after some weeks
check where water is still coming in - then repair just those cracks
(judging from the water stains under the paint, this should affect
only two cracks quite high on the freeboard and close to the bow).

The method proposed by the yardowner looks overkill to me and i cannot
understand where the benefits are (the economic benefits for the
yardowner seem obvious, he would do the job). Beside this it will
alter the way the planks expand (the strip will act as a wedge) so it
will just cause cracks somewhere else.

So my question: is just applying some caulking good enough ? Or even
better the do-nothing and see what happens method even better ?

Remember i get the boat for (almost) free and I can do with less than
optimal results - no sense in throwing thousands at it.

Thanks
Matteo

On 12 Apr 2005 12:50:00 -0700, (Matteo) wrote
something
.......and in reply I say!:

I have the opportunity to get hold of a 33 foot wooden sailboat -
basically for free (it comes from a divorce and the lady does not want
it anymore). It was a custom job and costed almost 150.000 US$ - the
rich guy tool.
Reminds me of a story about a guy who picked up a classic Jag for Ten
Pounds. It was part of a divorce settlement. The bloke had run away
with his secretary, or whatver, and left the wife to "dispose of the
goods" for settlement..........no values set.
************************************************** ****************************************
WHY _ARE_ WE HERE?

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

!!
")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/

It sounds like a deathtrap and the best thing would be to let me take
the thing off your hands and dispose of it properly.
But if you insist on risking your life, I would put it in the water and
see what happens, you can always pull it out to remedy problems. It
would seem once the boat gets remoisterized those cracks will
disappear. In a crack that size, you would have trouble getting any
caulking in anyway. Maybe you could wrap the boat with plastic and keep
it wet for a day or two and see what happens. Put some humidity on the
inside also so it's more like sitting at anchor as opposed to sitting
in a shed.

What you don't say is how the boat will be treated once you start using it.
Will it be permanently in the water or on the dry during winter. Might
influence what you do.
I'd go with the idea of getting it back in the water and letting the wood
get back to some sort of "normal" moisture content, and then see how the
cracks look. I agree with James about putting it in the water with extra
bilge pumps, don't under estimate how much water it will make, and if at all
possible don't rely on just a couple of batteries. Be prepared to visit
several times per day for a couple of days until the planks take up. I'm
assuming the caulking has not fallen out ....

I'd also try to start the re-wetting process before you launch - common
practice where I am is to use a garden hose to put water into the boat,
ideally for a very dry old boat like yours one of those perforated hoses
which has lots of holes - run it around the hull above the water line and
keep on pouring the water in. Not sure if your shed owner will like this,
you may need to build a sheet plastic dam under the boat to catch the water
and pump the water back in ( second bilge pump will do fine for this if it
has enough head .. )

If you can't keep up with the leaks with the garden hose, you certainly
won't be able to keep it afloat with batteries and bilge pumps ... As the
planks expand and the caulking takes up, you should get a good idea of how
much water it will make once launched, and you may identify areas which need
to be re-caulked before you launch.

Good luck
David




"Matteo" wrote in message
m...
I have the opportunity to get hold of a 33 foot wooden sailboat -
basically for free (it comes from a divorce and the lady does not want
it anymore). It was a custom job and costed almost 150.000 US$ - the
rich guy tool.

The boat is 25 years old, is built of heavy mahagonay (carvel planked)
and was sitting the last 5 years *out* of the water, in a big shed.
Every winter the boat was sitting in the shed and was used only
sometime. Deck is perfect, no stains inside, no rot smell, no soft
spots.

The only problem: the boat has hairline (i guess up to 1/20 of inch
wide) cracks in some of the planks, both in the wet as in the
freeboard area.

So we had an expert had a look at it: he explained us that this is
normal - all wooden boat when taken out of the water will crack. Those
will close once the boat goes back to the water. I agree.

But then the owner of the yard where the boat is says that his applies
only for the wet area: the freeboard needs to be sealed again, and
this is their method:

cut a groove with a router over the hairline crack (let's say 1/10 of
a inch deep, 1/4 of a inch wide) and glue a mahagonay strip in the
groove. This in order to seal the boat - the thin strip has nothing to
do with structural problems or in order to stiffen the boat. This to
be repeated when new cracks appear.

Now i never heard of this method: my idea was to seal the cracks with
some caulking and repaint - if the plank then expand again they will
ev. squeeze some of the caulking out. Actually my original idea was to
do nothing at all, put the boat in the water and after some weeks
check where water is still coming in - then repair just those cracks
(judging from the water stains under the paint, this should affect
only two cracks quite high on the freeboard and close to the bow).

The method proposed by the yardowner looks overkill to me and i cannot
understand where the benefits are (the economic benefits for the
yardowner seem obvious, he would do the job). Beside this it will
alter the way the planks expand (the strip will act as a wedge) so it
will just cause cracks somewhere else.

So my question: is just applying some caulking good enough ? Or even
better the do-nothing and see what happens method even better ?

Remember i get the boat for (almost) free and I can do with less than
optimal results - no sense in throwing thousands at it.

Thanks
Matteo

Hi

It is true that you can wet from inside but please please please
remember what water weight. Acturly I heard a few times from old
sailors, how wooden lifeboats broke when a new captain wanted to ensure
safety onboard , realy a boat hull can contain quite a few ten of tonns
and if you fill up a hull by accident or porpus you will se some
dameage out of reach of any repair.
Please "wet" but please know that you will get just as much from the
humidity in the air if just the bottom are covered than from pouring
tonns of water in just asking for trouble.

On 13 Apr 2005 06:18:16 -0700, wrote something
.......and in reply I say!:

I agree.

I feel that the advice may be a bit strong. But the post did seem tom
recommend basically filling the boat with water, and could be taken
wrongly.

I have broken a small boat that was full of water. Boats were built to
take pressure from outside, not inside.

I also feel that making the outside really wet will closely
approximate water-borne conditions, without saturating the inside.

Hi

It is true that you can wet from inside but please please please
remember what water weight. Acturly I heard a few times from old
sailors, how wooden lifeboats broke when a new captain wanted to ensure
safety onboard , realy a boat hull can contain quite a few ten of tonns
and if you fill up a hull by accident or porpus you will se some
dameage out of reach of any repair.
Please "wet" but please know that you will get just as much from the
humidity in the air if just the bottom are covered than from pouring
tonns of water in just asking for trouble.


************************************************** ****************************************
WHY _ARE_ WE HERE?

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

!!
")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/

On 12 Apr 2005 12:50:00 -0700, (Matteo) wrote:

stuff snipped

Hi,

If the fastenings on the planks are OK with salt water, look into
using this as salt is hygroscopic and will retain moisture better, as
well as preserve the wood.

AFIAK this was why the 'swabbing the decks' was done on wooden ships
in the old days.

Make sure it's pure salt, as road salt can contain chemical additives.
and be sure to keep salt water away from electrics and anything else
that may be affected.

It is well worth joining some classic boat clubs to get ideas and info
on how to best keep the boat.

cheers,
Pete.

wrote:
Hi

It is true that you can wet from inside but please please please
remember what water weight.

We had a hurricane aimed our way and they always tell you to secure
your stuff so it doesn't blow around. My friend had heard filling your
boat with water (aluminum runabout, on land, on a trailor) was an easy
way to do it, so he sticks in the hose and turns it on and goes off to
do something else. When he comes back, the sides are bulged out, rivets
are popped, the axle is bent, the tongue is bent and the tires are
flat. The hurricane didn't even come close. Sam

Hi

"The method proposed by the yardowner looks overkill to me and i cannot
understand where the benefits are (the economic benefits for the
yardowner seem obvious, he would do the job). Beside this it will
alter the way the planks expand (the strip will act as a wedge) so it
will just cause cracks somewhere else. "

Quite right but It will not harm the boat, it will be no problem case
the splines expand but if you didn't know ; a wooden boat don't need to
be caulked from the start fact is that real boatbuilding make it
without caulking --- some hammer a rod on the plank edges and plane
down flush, then when the wood are wet the volumes that is compressed
will expand more than the surronding wood, making a perfectly tight
seal , add a line of cotton and it stay that way very long . Caulking
btw. must be done with skills and care, done wrong it can harm more in
the described situation.
BTW caulking go in loops not filling up buttom up and there ought to be
a link to show, --- anyway a full set of caulking irons are round 14
different types among these a couple to caulk into the seam downverts
up by shaping the iron at an angle.
-------- A cake cutter, such steel wheel with a handle unsharpened are
the best choice if you realy want to "caulk" wiht that you use only
cotton.