http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1116
Glued Carvel
Plank edges may be shaped and glued with a thickened epoxy mix or
alternatively the seams of dry fitted planks may be routed later to a
constant width and fitted with wooden splines which are glued into place.
This latter method is the usual treatment when a traditionally built carvel
craft is reconstructed using epoxy adhesives as part of a full restoration
program. Sometimes a thickened epoxy mix is introduced into the seams as an
alternative to wooden splines and this seems to be just as effective in
fastening the plank edges together. The planking is also glued to the spine
and framework, which on new boats is built of laminated hardwood, glued and
coated with epoxy.

If you glue the seams on a carvel planked hull, it is now longer a carvel
hull.. More like a stripped plank hull..

A carvel hull is built to allow the panks to expand and contract and for the
hull to twist with out opening a seam..

I have recaulked hulls that had been on the hard too long and the planking
was dry.. Being carefull not to drive the cotton too tight or it could cause
the plank to pull it's fastenings. Even if I only put in enough seam filler
to bring the seam flush with the planking surface, once the hull swelled the
excess filler would squeeze out 3/16" and would later have to be smoothed
down again.

If you want to glue the seams, select a strip planked design..


--
My opinion and experience. FWIW

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Hey Scott,

Are you planning on fairing away the seams? If so, then glued-carvel
would be fine ...not a lot different from strip-building, except for the
mention of a splined joint between the planks. If you are not going to
fair-away the seams, then it seems to me that the finish work will be
harder. With epoxy, you must really seal 100% of the wood, on all sides.
Epoxy's great stuff, but it also holds water at the epoxy/wood interface.
Hence the reason for a complete seal and then keeping it that way. I think
a fellow should either commit to a 100% seal on all sides, or forget epoxy
completely. My 2-bits. You might also check with Al Gunther, who frequents
r.b.b.. I can't remember for sure, but I think he's doing glued-carvel.
Or, I should say that he's building a 26' carvel-planked sailboat and when I
needed it, he had a lot of very good advice on the use of epoxy. Might try
a search on "Al's 26" and see what you find.

Brian


"Scott Downey" wrote in message
...

http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1116
Glued Carvel
Plank edges may be shaped and glued with a thickened epoxy mix or
alternatively the seams of dry fitted planks may be routed later to a
constant width and fitted with wooden splines which are glued into place.
This latter method is the usual treatment when a traditionally built
carvel
craft is reconstructed using epoxy adhesives as part of a full restoration
program. Sometimes a thickened epoxy mix is introduced into the seams as
an
alternative to wooden splines and this seems to be just as effective in
fastening the plank edges together. The planking is also glued to the
spine
and framework, which on new boats is built of laminated hardwood, glued
and
coated with epoxy.

Good method.
Ideally you should fiberglass the hull outside for extra protection.
While you are at it, fiberglass the inside too, it will increase strength
tremendously.
If you use biaxial glass, it will become a true sandwich.
Note that you don't really need to start with wood, you could us foam
strips, that would be even better.
Oops, we just got ourself a real nice composite boat . . .

--
Jacques
http://www.bateau.com

"Scott Downey" wrote in message
...

http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1116
Glued Carvel
Plank edges may be shaped and glued with a thickened epoxy mix or
alternatively the seams of dry fitted planks may be routed later to a
constant width and fitted with wooden splines which are glued into place.
This latter method is the usual treatment when a traditionally built
carvel
craft is reconstructed using epoxy adhesives as part of a full restoration
program. Sometimes a thickened epoxy mix is introduced into the seams as
an
alternative to wooden splines and this seems to be just as effective in
fastening the plank edges together. The planking is also glued to the
spine
and framework, which on new boats is built of laminated hardwood, glued
and
coated with epoxy.

Jacques says:

Oops, we just got ourself a real nice composite boat . . .

Sarcasm ill becomes you, Jacques....

;-)

However, if the planking cannot be fully encapsulated, meaning kept DRY, then
i'd hesitate to fill seams with something firm like splines or epoxy putty. If
the planking gets wet and tries to expand, something has to give. It might be
frames or fastenings.
Only if the planking is of a species that doesn't swell much, might you get away
with this.

Jacques Mertens wrote:

Good method.
Ideally you should fiberglass the hull outside for extra protection.
While you are at it, fiberglass the inside too, it will increase strength
tremendously.
If you use biaxial glass, it will become a true sandwich.
Note that you don't really need to start with wood, you could us foam
strips, that would be even better.
Oops, we just got ourself a real nice composite boat . . .

--
Jacques
http://www.bateau.com

"Scott Downey" wrote in message
...

http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1116
Glued Carvel
Plank edges may be shaped and glued with a thickened epoxy mix or
alternatively the seams of dry fitted planks may be routed later to a
constant width and fitted with wooden splines which are glued into place.
This latter method is the usual treatment when a traditionally built
carvel
craft is reconstructed using epoxy adhesives as part of a full restoration
program. Sometimes a thickened epoxy mix is introduced into the seams as
an
alternative to wooden splines and this seems to be just as effective in
fastening the plank edges together. The planking is also glued to the
spine
and framework, which on new boats is built of laminated hardwood, glued
and
coated with epoxy.

Phil Bolger once started builing a hull that way but gave it up when he
found out how much the adhesive was costing, and finished it the old
fashioned way. You might want to cost out the project before getting started.

There are more flexible adhesives than epoxy. You might look into some of
them. I've heard of polyurethane being used on lapped strake (cliker) hulls.

Seams above the waterline tend to dry out and open up while seams below
the waterline swell up tight. If glued seams can't open as the wood dries
the wood may split. TF Jones encoutered this after 10 years on a lapped
strake canoe built light with thin strakes. That canoe was kept inside out
of the sun when not in use.

"Scott Downey" ) writes:
http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1116
Glued Carvel
Plank edges may be shaped and glued with a thickened epoxy mix or
alternatively the seams of dry fitted planks may be routed later to a
constant width and fitted with wooden splines which are glued into place.
This latter method is the usual treatment when a traditionally built carvel
craft is reconstructed using epoxy adhesives as part of a full restoration
program. Sometimes a thickened epoxy mix is introduced into the seams as an
alternative to wooden splines and this seems to be just as effective in
fastening the plank edges together. The planking is also glued to the spine
and framework, which on new boats is built of laminated hardwood, glued and
coated with epoxy.




--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

I was thinking if the planks were dry and shrunk then further drying wont
cause any splitting
The only pressure will be when the planks absorb water, now the planks are
under pressure anyway when wet, this is what seals the seams. I assume when
the boat was built, the inner plank edges were touching, the outer edges
were angled away so you can put in caulking.
I know a lot of you dont like the idea of planks pressuring each other but
is not this what happens anyway when they soak up water sealing the hull in
a conventional design?
People think something has to give if the edges are joined but are many
just making assumptions about this with no real experience.

"William R. Watt" wrote in message
...
Phil Bolger once started builing a hull that way but gave it up when he
found out how much the adhesive was costing, and finished it the old
fashioned way. You might want to cost out the project before getting
started.

There are more flexible adhesives than epoxy. You might look into some of
them. I've heard of polyurethane being used on lapped strake (cliker)
hulls.

Seams above the waterline tend to dry out and open up while seams below
the waterline swell up tight. If glued seams can't open as the wood dries
the wood may split. TF Jones encoutered this after 10 years on a lapped
strake canoe built light with thin strakes. That canoe was kept inside out
of the sun when not in use.

"Scott Downey" ) writes:
http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1116
Glued Carvel
Plank edges may be shaped and glued with a thickened epoxy mix or
alternatively the seams of dry fitted planks may be routed later to a
constant width and fitted with wooden splines which are glued into
place.
This latter method is the usual treatment when a traditionally built
carvel
craft is reconstructed using epoxy adhesives as part of a full
restoration
program. Sometimes a thickened epoxy mix is introduced into the seams as
an
alternative to wooden splines and this seems to be just as effective in
fastening the plank edges together. The planking is also glued to the
spine
and framework, which on new boats is built of laminated hardwood, glued
and
coated with epoxy.




--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community
network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

"Scott Downey" wrote in message
...
I know a lot of you dont like the idea of planks pressuring each other but
is not this what happens anyway when they soak up water sealing the hull
in
a conventional design?

Yes. But in a conventional carvel hull, the caulking absorbs the extra
dimension of the expanding wood. When you glue is with epoxy, nothing is
left to absorm the expansion and the planks will eventually burst off the
ribs. The reason red cedar is used for stripplanking is because it is a soft
wood and therefore producing less pressure when it swells. Quite a few
builders, Paul Gartside is one of them, even state that layers of glass on a
larger stripplanked hull are not strong enough and they advise to cover the
strips with diagonal layer(s) of plywood first. I have also seen an oak hull
built this way; bead an cove strippplanked, covered by two layers of ply and
finished with for-and-aft running planks to add extra body and give it the
traditional look of carvel.

Meindert

the boat was built, the inner plank edges were touching, the outer edges
were angled away so you can put in caulking.

Plank edges do not normally touch there is a gap that will allow for the
ultimate swelling or expansion of the plank. If the caulking cotton is
driven to tight (or you fill the seam with glue or epoxy) the plank will
'pull it's fastenings". The expanding plank has to go someplace.


--
My opinion and experience. FWIW

Steve
s/v Good Intentions