Once upon a time in a magickal land far far away the being called Floyd L.
Davidson stirred from its deep slumber and pronounced to usenet:

: "Steve Leyland" wrote:
:: Once upon a time in a magickal land far far away the being called
:: Floyd L. Davidson stirred from its deep slumber and pronounced to
:: usenet:
::
::: "Steve Leyland"
::: wrote:
::::
:::: I have been a vegetarian for the last 25 years, jeanne.
:::: have you ever considered not killing innocent creatures and
:::: consuming their rotting cadavers as food?
:::
::: You are a hypocrit, and an ignorant one at that.
::
:: no, I'm sincere about it. oh and save the insults, I'm not looking
:: for a flamewar.
:
: Those are *not* gratuitous personal insults. They are
: precisely what your statement above logically leads to.

logically perhaps in your prejudiced mind, but certainly not in mine.
:
: Yes, it *is* insulting. If you don't like that, then
: don't make statements that describe you as an ignorant
: hypocrite.

I suggest you look up the meaning of the word hypocrite before you accuse
people; I am posting my honest considered opinions without any pretence of
superiority for them. I have the freedom of speech to state my opinion just
as you have the right to disagree with it.
:
::: You think plants are not alive, that they don't die so
::: that you can eat them?
::
:: I have to eat food to stay alive; I see vegetarianism as the least
:: harmful and most ethical method of that.
:
: It is an absurd claim though, and only made by ignorant
: hypocrites. You are saying that what *he* kills to stay
: alive is wrong and excessive, while what *you* kill to
: stay alive is merely an ethical means of living.

*in my opinion*, yes.
:
: That is *not* logical. The only difference is "he"
: versus "you". That makes you a bigot.

once again you accuse with words which are entirely inapplicable. a bigot
will refuse to listen to another's opinion, whereas I'm entirely open to
debate.
:
::: You think that no animals die so that your veggies can
::: be grown and marketed?
::
:: yes.
:
: Go visit a farm.
:
: What do you think happens when a field for vegetables is
: plowed? What happens when the tractor goes over it with
: a disk? It is a *massive* kill off of animal life! And
: many mechanized harvesting methods are equally deadly to
: animals (consider mowing a field of hay... and the
: thousands of small animals that die in the process).

well that sucks and I truly wasn't aware of that. perhaps there's a way to
harvest manually without this murder? of course that'll increase costs so
won't happen.
:
: Besides that, *plants* are living beings that are killed
: to allow you to eat. How can you say that the living
: organism killed to feed *me* is has greater (or lesser)
: significance as a life form than the organisms killed to
: feed *you*!

plants are not sentient beings and IMHO they suffer a lot less pain than an
animal to provide my needed sustenance. according to your "logic" an
ethical person should starve to death.
:
::: Tell you what, oh ignorant one, a lot less death occurs
::: when a single whale is killed to provide 40,000 pounds
::: of meat than the number of deaths that result in
::: stocking your local supermarket with loaves of bread for
::: just one day!

whales were an endagered species until their hunting was banned by most
civilised nations.
::
:: okay go on then I'll bite. please do educate me as to precisely how
:: many animals have to die to grow a field of organic wheat and
:: process it into bread?
:
: Thousands!
:
:
: On a different note, I see you are into other forms of
: hypocrisy:
:
:: "When the Earth has been ravaged and the animals are dying, a tribe
:: of people from all races, creeds and colours shall put their faith in
:: deeds, not words, and make the land green again. They shall be known
:: as Warriors of the Rainbow, protectors of the environment."
::
:: Native American prophecy
:
: "Native American prophecy" my ass. That's some white
: man's made up fable. You wouldn't know a Native prophecy
: if you heard one.

I'll inform my Hopi friend that his ancestors were talking crap then.

--
Steve Leyland
mhm32x16 Smeeter#24 WSD#41 Most Hated Usenetizen Of All Time#1
Top Asshole on the Net#4 Usenet Ruiner#11 Lits Slut#1
Alcatroll Labs Inc (bongwater maintenance dept)

=^MEOW MEOW ARMY^=

Every hero becomes a bore at last. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
================================================== ====================
"Warning to all:
Steve Leyland is a trolling **** of the highest order. Killfile the
muppet now and move on. Even the briefest of searches on his past
UseNet posts will reveal the truth. You have been warned. *plonk*"
bear, uk.rec.motorcycles
================================================== ====================
"I didn't delete any part of your meaningless, pointless, worthless
post in order to clearly demonstrate that you are the nemesis of
Usenet: the crossposting, non-editing, diagram-creating worthless,
dickless, brainless, gutless, mindless, ball-less, spineless, flaccid,
obese, fish-belly pale, ugly, VD-ridden, moronic, bald, hunch-backed,
flat-footed, odoriferous, obnoxious, fecal-smelling, buck-toothed,
physically handicapped, fungus-infected, HIV positive, mud-packing,
masturbating, whining, simpering, self-important, arrogant, egomaniacal
POS that takes up more bandwidth than a despicable binary-poster, and
for no apparent reason beyond seeing his own defecatory vomitus
slithering down the screen in vile green rivulets."

Admiral Halsey, alt.sailing.asa
================================================== ====================
"I went to the Garden of Love,
And saw what I never had seen;
A Chapel was built in the midst,
Where I used to play on the green.

And the gates of this Chapel were shut
And "Thou shalt not," writ over the door;
So I turned to the Garden of Love
That so many sweet flowers bore.

And I saw it was filled with graves,
And tombstones where flowers should be;
And priests in black gowns were walking their rounds,
And binding with briars my joys and desires."

William Blake.
================================================== ====================
"When the Earth has been ravaged and the animals are dying, a tribe of
people from all races, creeds and colours shall put their faith in
deeds, not words, and make the land green again. They shall be known as
Warriors of the Rainbow, protectors of the environment."

Native American prophecy


|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
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|,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
'-~~;'@ ( ; ;
_.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
(,_..----''' (,..--''

Meow

"Steve Leyland" wrote:
Once upon a time in a magickal land far far away the being called Floyd L.
Davidson stirred from its deep slumber and pronounced to usenet:

You can't even provide an accurate attribution without trying to
insult the people you respond to...

: "Steve Leyland" wrote:
::: You are a hypocrit, and an ignorant one at that.
::
:: no, I'm sincere about it. oh and save the insults, I'm not looking
:: for a flamewar.
:
: Those are *not* gratuitous personal insults. They are
: precisely what your statement above logically leads to.

logically perhaps in your prejudiced mind, but certainly not in mine.

And here you go around the corner again with illogical
statements that do not suit the facts at hand.

: Yes, it *is* insulting. If you don't like that, then
: don't make statements that describe you as an ignorant
: hypocrite.

I suggest you look up the meaning of the word hypocrite before you accuse
people; I am posting my honest considered opinions without any pretence of
superiority for them.

Again, that is an absurd statement. You are telling
other people what they should eat. Specifically, in
total ignorance of either their situation or even a
minimal set of facts about your own situation, that
because *you* don't think it is right to eat whales that
somebody else should not.

You claim not to be a hypocrite, yet you know very little
about it and claim to have "my honest considered opinions"!
And of course "without any pretense of superiority"!

The fact is you have not *honestly* considered it at
all. Your opinions are based on ignorance. You claim
to be superior enough to tell other people what they
should eat *on* *moral* *grounds*, which is abjectly
ridiculous even if you did have any facts.

I have the freedom of speech to state my opinion just
as you have the right to disagree with it.

And everyone who posts an "honestly considered opinion"
that is totally bogus deserves to be told off too.

You are ignorant, have made no effort to learn facts,
and post illogical statements that do not follow from
the facts in evidence.
:
::: You think plants are not alive, that they don't die so
::: that you can eat them?
::
:: I have to eat food to stay alive; I see vegetarianism as the least
:: harmful and most ethical method of that.
:
: It is an absurd claim though, and only made by ignorant
: hypocrites. You are saying that what *he* kills to stay
: alive is wrong and excessive, while what *you* kill to
: stay alive is merely an ethical means of living.

*in my opinion*, yes.

bigot:
A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of
religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or
opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable
or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is
intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in
politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to
his own church, party, belief, or opinion.

You are a bigot and a hypocrite by your own admission.
You kill things to eat, yet claim others are immoral for
doing exactly the same thing. You have no evidence
whatever that separates you from the people you condemn.

: That is *not* logical. The only difference is "he"
: versus "you". That makes you a bigot.

once again you accuse with words which are entirely inapplicable. a bigot
will refuse to listen to another's opinion, whereas I'm entirely open to
debate.

See the definition above. That fits *you* to a tee.

And look how you squeal and howl at open debate! Liar.

::: You think that no animals die so that your veggies can
::: be grown and marketed?
::
:: yes.
:
: Go visit a farm.
:
: What do you think happens when a field for vegetables is
: plowed? What happens when the tractor goes over it with
: a disk? It is a *massive* kill off of animal life! And
: many mechanized harvesting methods are equally deadly to
: animals (consider mowing a field of hay... and the
: thousands of small animals that die in the process).

well that sucks and I truly wasn't aware of that. perhaps there's a way to
harvest manually without this murder? of course that'll increase costs so
won't happen.

You don't mind killing animals to keep the cost of
*your* food down! Hypocrite.

: Besides that, *plants* are living beings that are killed
: to allow you to eat. How can you say that the living
: organism killed to feed *me* is has greater (or lesser)
: significance as a life form than the organisms killed to
: feed *you*!

plants are not sentient beings and IMHO they suffer a lot less pain than an

First, what difference does it make if plants are sentient or not?
Just how sentient do you think whales are?? What makes you think
plants don't suffer pain?

animal to provide my needed sustenance. according to your "logic" an
ethical person should starve to death.

I have *never* said that ethical people should not kill plants and
animals to eat. *YOU* are the jerk making that ignorant claim!

Besides, if you are serious about reducing the pain,
suffering and death of other life forms in order to feed
you... you should be eating whale meat as the main stay
of your diet. One whale's death might provide 40,000
pound of food for you. Compare that to the 40,000
deaths *you* cause just to eat bread for one year or so.

By *your* logic, you are simply disgusting.

::: Tell you what, oh ignorant one, a lot less death occurs
::: when a single whale is killed to provide 40,000 pounds
::: of meat than the number of deaths that result in
::: stocking your local supermarket with loaves of bread for
::: just one day!

whales were an endagered species until their hunting was banned by most
civilised nations.

There are many different kinds of whales, and not all of
them are or ever were endangered. In fact there have
been dozens of whale species that have become extinct,
but *not* *one* has ever become extinct due to humans.

:: "When the Earth has been ravaged and the animals are dying, a tribe
:: of people from all races, creeds and colours shall put their faith in
:: deeds, not words, and make the land green again. They shall be known
:: as Warriors of the Rainbow, protectors of the environment."
::
:: Native American prophecy
:
: "Native American prophecy" my ass. That's some white
: man's made up fable. You wouldn't know a Native prophecy
: if you heard one.

I'll inform my Hopi friend that his ancestors were talking crap then.

Bull****. I think you are lying. You've probably never
met a Hopi person in your life. If you have he was
educated in a Westernized school anyway. Your quote
sounds just like the oft quoted speech by Chief Seattle,
that tells about the Indian's need for buffalo...
written by a screen writer (and Seattle himself never
saw a buffalo in his entire life).

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)