In article ,
katy wrote:
Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article .com,
Bill wrote:

Bush said from the very beginning that he would veto this bill so all
of this time and money spent was a waste and they new it. This is not
news. The headline should read "Congress waste of time and money is
going exactly as planned". It should really be a celebration of them
finaly doing something they set out to do. Wasting time and money is
what politicians are good at.


They are doing the will of the people who sent them there. Bush is
ignoring what the people want.

Then they will put the bill through with a 2/3rd's majority vote..if
that doesn't happen, then it was not the people's will....

That's pretty naive even for you.


--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article ,
katy wrote:

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

In article .com,
Bill wrote:


Bush said from the very beginning that he would veto this bill so all
of this time and money spent was a waste and they new it. This is not
news. The headline should read "Congress waste of time and money is
going exactly as planned". It should really be a celebration of them
finaly doing something they set out to do. Wasting time and money is
what politicians are good at.


They are doing the will of the people who sent them there. Bush is
ignoring what the people want.


Then they will put the bill through with a 2/3rd's majority vote..if
that doesn't happen, then it was not the people's will....


That's pretty naive even for you.


That's the way the Constitution works...if you don't like it, get a
petition going to change it...you'll need quite a few signatures and
quite a few states..will keep you very busy for quite some time...

In article ,
katy wrote:
Then they will put the bill through with a 2/3rd's majority vote..if
that doesn't happen, then it was not the people's will....


That's pretty naive even for you.


That's the way the Constitution works...if you don't like it, get a
petition going to change it...you'll need quite a few signatures and
quite a few states..will keep you very busy for quite some time...

I guess you never heard of lobbies and the money influence they have
on our elected officials. Do a google search on Jack Abramoff.

--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article ,
katy wrote:

Then they will put the bill through with a 2/3rd's majority vote..if
that doesn't happen, then it was not the people's will....


That's pretty naive even for you.



That's the way the Constitution works...if you don't like it, get a
petition going to change it...you'll need quite a few signatures and
quite a few states..will keep you very busy for quite some time...


I guess you never heard of lobbies and the money influence they have
on our elected officials. Do a google search on Jack Abramoff.

Neveretheless, we have a Constitutional government that spells out how
the people can remedy these ills. If the people are not willing to speak
up and take hold, then it's on their heads, lobbyists or no lobbyists.
And if lobbyists are money buying power, then start supporting the
lobbyist of your choice. Why do you think the NRA is so powerful? Lots
of regular everyday people contribute to them. Why is the AMA and the
NEA (both liberal I may add) so powerful? Becasue doctors and teachers
give their money to that specific cause. Blaming loobyists and money
interests is just another cop out that the average American uses to
justify their apathy and ennui in their own government. The American
people get exactly what they deserve.

In article ,
katy wrote:
I guess you never heard of lobbies and the money influence they have
on our elected officials. Do a google search on Jack Abramoff.

Neveretheless, we have a Constitutional government that spells out how
the people can remedy these ills. If the people are not willing to speak
up and take hold, then it's on their heads, lobbyists or no lobbyists.
And if lobbyists are money buying power, then start supporting the
lobbyist of your choice. Why do you think the NRA is so powerful? Lots
of regular everyday people contribute to them. Why is the AMA and the
NEA (both liberal I may add) so powerful? Becasue doctors and teachers
give their money to that specific cause. Blaming loobyists and money
interests is just another cop out that the average American uses to
justify their apathy and ennui in their own government. The American
people get exactly what they deserve.

Katy, katy... the point is that the lobbiest money is interfering with
the process. Some would claim that it's a first amendement right of
theirs to pump big money to politicians to get their way, but the
effect is to subvert the will of the people.

If you don't think that's true, see how easy or difficult it is for a
private citizen to get a private meeting with the President vs. a big
sponsor. This is true for both parties. The Dems have claimed they're
going to address it, but so far, nothing has happened.


--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

Katy, katy... the point is that the lobbiest money is interfering with
the process. Some would claim that it's a first amendement right of
theirs to pump big money to politicians to get their way, but the
effect is to subvert the will of the people.

Yes but in a capitalist country people vote two ways. One of those is
with your money. If you don't give your money to the groups with the
lobbyist then they can't do anything about it. They aren't printing
that money out themselves. They get it from the people that are
supporting their cause because the average person can't get a meeting
with the president. They take your money, pool it together and gain
enough political force to do what is in their best interest. If you
are supproting them then it should be in your best interest as well.

In article . com,
Bill wrote:
Katy, katy... the point is that the lobbiest money is interfering with
the process. Some would claim that it's a first amendement right of
theirs to pump big money to politicians to get their way, but the
effect is to subvert the will of the people.

Yes but in a capitalist country people vote two ways. One of those is
with your money. If you don't give your money to the groups with the
lobbyist then they can't do anything about it. They aren't printing
that money out themselves. They get it from the people that are
supporting their cause because the average person can't get a meeting
with the president. They take your money, pool it together and gain
enough political force to do what is in their best interest. If you
are supproting them then it should be in your best interest as well.

Like Microsoft, the health care companies, insurance companies, big
oil, big unions, etc.? I don't think they really represent "people,"
when they lobby Congress. The interests of the corporations might
coincide with some individual interests, perhaps more likely some of
their stockholders, but certainly not all of them. So, that's not
really voting, it's really influencing the voting of those in Congress
and the White House.

Again, try and get access to Bush and not be the head of a large
corp. or a big lobby firm and see what happens.



--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article ,
katy wrote:

I guess you never heard of lobbies and the money influence they have
on our elected officials. Do a google search on Jack Abramoff.


Neveretheless, we have a Constitutional government that spells out how
the people can remedy these ills. If the people are not willing to speak
up and take hold, then it's on their heads, lobbyists or no lobbyists.
And if lobbyists are money buying power, then start supporting the
lobbyist of your choice. Why do you think the NRA is so powerful? Lots
of regular everyday people contribute to them. Why is the AMA and the
NEA (both liberal I may add) so powerful? Becasue doctors and teachers
give their money to that specific cause. Blaming loobyists and money
interests is just another cop out that the average American uses to
justify their apathy and ennui in their own government. The American
people get exactly what they deserve.


Katy, katy... the point is that the lobbiest money is interfering with
the process. Some would claim that it's a first amendement right of
theirs to pump big money to politicians to get their way, but the
effect is to subvert the will of the people.

If you don't think that's true, see how easy or difficult it is for a
private citizen to get a private meeting with the President vs. a big
sponsor. This is true for both parties. The Dems have claimed they're
going to address it, but so far, nothing has happened.


I wonder why?? )that's a rhetorical question) SOme of the largest
lobbying groups are liberal...like i mentioned: the NEA, the AMA, 2 of
the most powerful...but then, those groups are made up of people with
interests who use the group effort rather than the individual effort to
make their mark...many regular old citizens contribute to those groups,
not just the big money...so..if you really want this war to end..start
lobbying...get some big money behind you...obviously, big money isn;'t
interested in ending the war...

In article ,
katy wrote:
Katy, katy... the point is that the lobbiest money is interfering with
the process. Some would claim that it's a first amendement right of
theirs to pump big money to politicians to get their way, but the
effect is to subvert the will of the people.

If you don't think that's true, see how easy or difficult it is for a
private citizen to get a private meeting with the President vs. a big
sponsor. This is true for both parties. The Dems have claimed they're
going to address it, but so far, nothing has happened.


I wonder why?? )that's a rhetorical question) SOme of the largest
lobbying groups are liberal...like i mentioned: the NEA, the AMA, 2 of
the most powerful...but then, those groups are made up of people with
interests who use the group effort rather than the individual effort to
make their mark...many regular old citizens contribute to those groups,
not just the big money...so..if you really want this war to end..start
lobbying...get some big money behind you...obviously, big money isn;'t
interested in ending the war...

What does the political affiliation have to do with the access we're
talking about? You're really stretching if you think this is good for
the country.


--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article ,
katy wrote:
I guess you never heard of lobbies and the money influence they have
on our elected officials. Do a google search on Jack Abramoff.

Neveretheless, we have a Constitutional government that spells out how
the people can remedy these ills. If the people are not willing to speak
up and take hold, then it's on their heads, lobbyists or no lobbyists.
And if lobbyists are money buying power, then start supporting the
lobbyist of your choice. Why do you think the NRA is so powerful? Lots
of regular everyday people contribute to them. Why is the AMA and the
NEA (both liberal I may add) so powerful? Becasue doctors and teachers
give their money to that specific cause. Blaming loobyists and money
interests is just another cop out that the average American uses to
justify their apathy and ennui in their own government. The American
people get exactly what they deserve.

Katy, katy... the point is that the lobbiest money is interfering with
the process.

Actually it's controlling the process.

Some would claim that it's a first amendement right of
theirs to pump big money to politicians to get their way, but the
effect is to subvert the will of the people.

That's nothing new. In fact, it has been that way for far longer than you
or I have been alive.


If you don't think that's true, see how easy or difficult it is for a
private citizen to get a private meeting with the President vs. a big
sponsor. This is true for both parties. The Dems have claimed they're
going to address it, but so far, nothing has happened.

Politics as usual in Washington. The system is broken. It's not a
democracy; it's not even a republic. It's a special interest stranglehold
over the government and the citizens of this country.

Max