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#21
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Here there be dictators.
"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net... "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... Like Microsoft, the health care companies, insurance companies, big oil, big unions, etc.? I don't think they really represent "people," when they lobby Congress. The interests of the corporations might coincide with some individual interests, perhaps more likely some of their stockholders, but certainly not all of them. So, that's not really voting, it's really influencing the voting of those in Congress and the White House. It's all about money, Jon. "Them that has, gets. Them that don't, don't". The irony is that the country is largely composed of middle class citizens, a class of people largely unrepresented in either the White House or Congress. Again, try and get access to Bush and not be the head of a large corp. or a big lobby firm and see what happens. Hell, try getting access to the president of any major American corporation. About as futile. Max And, continuing to shrink... -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#22
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Here there be dictators.
"katy" wrote in message
... Jonathan Ganz wrote: What does the political affiliation have to do with the access we're talking about? You're really stretching if you think this is good for the country. I don't think it's good...but sitting here and griping and complaining about it certainly doesn';t change anything...like I said, if you don't like things the way they are then get off your butt and get out there and change things...that's the only way that the PEOPLE are going to get back their governemnt..they have to become active participants...and they can use the vehicles already established to infiltrate or they can create their own new ways...I write letters to Congressmen all the time..do you" I respond to surveys if they are woirthwhile...I write network television stations and complain when something doesn't suit me..I write manufactuter's when products are subp par or are defective...I give my money to organizations that represent my interests...and not to blanket charities like United Way...all I'm saying is that sitting on alt.sailing.asa griping and moaning about the conditions of the world is a futile endeavor...stop talking about it and get out there and do something about it... I do more than you'll ever know or I will ever say. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#23
posted to alt.sailing.asa
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Here there be dictators.
"katy" wrote in message
... Maxprop wrote: "katy" wrote in message ... I don't think it's good...but sitting here and griping and complaining about it certainly doesn';t change anything...like I said, if you don't like things the way they are then get off your butt and get out there and change things...that's the only way that the PEOPLE are going to get back their governemnt..they have to become active participants...and they can use the vehicles already established to infiltrate or they can create their own new ways...I write letters to Congressmen all the time..do you" I respond to surveys if they are woirthwhile...I write network television stations and complain when something doesn't suit me..I write manufactuter's when products are subp par or are defective...I give my money to organizations that represent my interests...and not to blanket charities like United Way...all I'm saying is that sitting on alt.sailing.asa griping and moaning about the conditions of the world is a futile endeavor...stop talking about it and get out there and do something about it... I admire your persistent faith in the system, K. I guess I've been around long enough to have become cynical. I've watched grass-roots movements rise and fall without effect. I've watched small corporations get kicked around and dissolved by big money and its influence with government. I pay a horrendous bill in FICA, only to be told I'm unlikely to ever see even a reasonable percentage of it returned by SS. And I see the man for whom I voted and believed to be honorable and decent slide into the hip pockets of every special interest that gave him a few bucks for his election/re-election. Yeah, I'm cynical. Max There's a difference between cynacism and defeatism...You can be a cynic or a skeptic and still go on...it doens't mean you have to lie down in defeat... I'm not cynical, but I am skeptical. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#24
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Here there be dictators.
On Thu, 03 May 2007 07:33:40 -0400, katy
wrote: Jonathan Ganz wrote: In article , katy wrote: Katy, katy... the point is that the lobbiest money is interfering with the process. Some would claim that it's a first amendement right of theirs to pump big money to politicians to get their way, but the effect is to subvert the will of the people. If you don't think that's true, see how easy or difficult it is for a private citizen to get a private meeting with the President vs. a big sponsor. This is true for both parties. The Dems have claimed they're going to address it, but so far, nothing has happened. I wonder why?? )that's a rhetorical question) SOme of the largest lobbying groups are liberal...like i mentioned: the NEA, the AMA, 2 of the most powerful...but then, those groups are made up of people with interests who use the group effort rather than the individual effort to make their mark...many regular old citizens contribute to those groups, not just the big money...so..if you really want this war to end..start lobbying...get some big money behind you...obviously, big money isn;'t interested in ending the war... What does the political affiliation have to do with the access we're talking about? You're really stretching if you think this is good for the country. ...I give my money to organizations that represent my interests...and not to blanket charities like United Way... You should. Unless your local United Way is ineffective. As a two term UW board member my eyes were opened to the effectiveness of the UW. All I can say is I would hate to be the head of a charity that goes before the UW allocation committee without all my ducks in a row. A brutal ordeal. Of course it is a local thing. Frank |
#25
posted to alt.sailing.asa
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Here there be dictators.
Frank Boettcher wrote:
On Thu, 03 May 2007 07:33:40 -0400, katy wrote: Jonathan Ganz wrote: In article , katy wrote: Katy, katy... the point is that the lobbiest money is interfering with the process. Some would claim that it's a first amendement right of theirs to pump big money to politicians to get their way, but the effect is to subvert the will of the people. If you don't think that's true, see how easy or difficult it is for a private citizen to get a private meeting with the President vs. a big sponsor. This is true for both parties. The Dems have claimed they're going to address it, but so far, nothing has happened. I wonder why?? )that's a rhetorical question) SOme of the largest lobbying groups are liberal...like i mentioned: the NEA, the AMA, 2 of the most powerful...but then, those groups are made up of people with interests who use the group effort rather than the individual effort to make their mark...many regular old citizens contribute to those groups, not just the big money...so..if you really want this war to end..start lobbying...get some big money behind you...obviously, big money isn;'t interested in ending the war... What does the political affiliation have to do with the access we're talking about? You're really stretching if you think this is good for the country. ..I give my money to organizations that represent my interests...and not to blanket charities like United Way... You should. Unless your local United Way is ineffective. As a two term UW board member my eyes were opened to the effectiveness of the UW. All I can say is I would hate to be the head of a charity that goes before the UW allocation committee without all my ducks in a row. A brutal ordeal. Of course it is a local thing. Frank Mr Sails was the plant rep for UW for 3 years...and he always donated to them...I prefer to give my money to organizations that represent my interests..some of the money that is given out by UW goes to places I do not support in fact or in theory...it's bad enough my tax money can't be designated to where I want it to go..my personal contributions, though, I can control and do... |
#26
posted to alt.sailing.asa
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Here there be dictators.
"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message ... On Thu, 03 May 2007 07:33:40 -0400, katy wrote: Jonathan Ganz wrote: In article , katy wrote: Katy, katy... the point is that the lobbiest money is interfering with the process. Some would claim that it's a first amendement right of theirs to pump big money to politicians to get their way, but the effect is to subvert the will of the people. If you don't think that's true, see how easy or difficult it is for a private citizen to get a private meeting with the President vs. a big sponsor. This is true for both parties. The Dems have claimed they're going to address it, but so far, nothing has happened. I wonder why?? )that's a rhetorical question) SOme of the largest lobbying groups are liberal...like i mentioned: the NEA, the AMA, 2 of the most powerful...but then, those groups are made up of people with interests who use the group effort rather than the individual effort to make their mark...many regular old citizens contribute to those groups, not just the big money...so..if you really want this war to end..start lobbying...get some big money behind you...obviously, big money isn;'t interested in ending the war... What does the political affiliation have to do with the access we're talking about? You're really stretching if you think this is good for the country. ..I give my money to organizations that represent my interests...and not to blanket charities like United Way... You should. Unless your local United Way is ineffective. As a two term UW board member my eyes were opened to the effectiveness of the UW. All I can say is I would hate to be the head of a charity that goes before the UW allocation committee without all my ducks in a row. A brutal ordeal. Of course it is a local thing. Frank--what percentage of the money collected by the United Way actually goes to the various charities? What percent is considered "administrative expenses?" Max |
#27
posted to alt.sailing.asa
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Here there be dictators.
On Thu, 03 May 2007 21:49:44 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote: "Frank Boettcher" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 03 May 2007 07:33:40 -0400, katy wrote: Jonathan Ganz wrote: In article , katy wrote: Katy, katy... the point is that the lobbiest money is interfering with the process. Some would claim that it's a first amendement right of theirs to pump big money to politicians to get their way, but the effect is to subvert the will of the people. If you don't think that's true, see how easy or difficult it is for a private citizen to get a private meeting with the President vs. a big sponsor. This is true for both parties. The Dems have claimed they're going to address it, but so far, nothing has happened. I wonder why?? )that's a rhetorical question) SOme of the largest lobbying groups are liberal...like i mentioned: the NEA, the AMA, 2 of the most powerful...but then, those groups are made up of people with interests who use the group effort rather than the individual effort to make their mark...many regular old citizens contribute to those groups, not just the big money...so..if you really want this war to end..start lobbying...get some big money behind you...obviously, big money isn;'t interested in ending the war... What does the political affiliation have to do with the access we're talking about? You're really stretching if you think this is good for the country. ..I give my money to organizations that represent my interests...and not to blanket charities like United Way... You should. Unless your local United Way is ineffective. As a two term UW board member my eyes were opened to the effectiveness of the UW. All I can say is I would hate to be the head of a charity that goes before the UW allocation committee without all my ducks in a row. A brutal ordeal. Of course it is a local thing. Frank--what percentage of the money collected by the United Way actually goes to the various charities? What percent is considered "administrative expenses?" Max As mentioned, it is a local thing. The local board controls the UW administrative budget, campaign expenditures, compensation levels, etc. I haven't been on the board for several years (locally, two terms of three years then off for at least one term), but when I was on the administrative budget was about 10%. For that you get a very well run campaign, with mostly volunteers as campaign coordinators and brutal scrutiny of charities that have made application to recieve funds, along with ongoing oversight. Additionally, an endowed fund has been established so that at some time in the future, the administrative expenses can come from income from the endowed fund and 100% of the campaign can pass through. Not there yet. The board is all volunteer. The local UW had three full time employee's when I was on the board, may have four now. The last campaign was 2.2 million dollars.. But it is local. The efficiency depends on board members willing to volunteer and provide the proper oversite. It took quite a bit of time. Frank |
#28
posted to alt.sailing.asa
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Here there be dictators.
On Thu, 03 May 2007 18:26:01 -0400, Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Thu, 03 May 2007 21:49:44 GMT, "Maxprop" wrote: "Frank Boettcher" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 03 May 2007 07:33:40 -0400, katy wrote: Jonathan Ganz wrote: In article , katy wrote: Katy, katy... the point is that the lobbiest money is interfering with the process. Some would claim that it's a first amendement right of theirs to pump big money to politicians to get their way, but the effect is to subvert the will of the people. If you don't think that's true, see how easy or difficult it is for a private citizen to get a private meeting with the President vs. a big sponsor. This is true for both parties. The Dems have claimed they're going to address it, but so far, nothing has happened. I wonder why?? )that's a rhetorical question) SOme of the largest lobbying groups are liberal...like i mentioned: the NEA, the AMA, 2 of the most powerful...but then, those groups are made up of people with interests who use the group effort rather than the individual effort to make their mark...many regular old citizens contribute to those groups, not just the big money...so..if you really want this war to end..start lobbying...get some big money behind you...obviously, big money isn;'t interested in ending the war... What does the political affiliation have to do with the access we're talking about? You're really stretching if you think this is good for the country. ..I give my money to organizations that represent my interests...and not to blanket charities like United Way... You should. Unless your local United Way is ineffective. As a two term UW board member my eyes were opened to the effectiveness of the UW. All I can say is I would hate to be the head of a charity that goes before the UW allocation committee without all my ducks in a row. A brutal ordeal. Of course it is a local thing. Frank--what percentage of the money collected by the United Way actually goes to the various charities? What percent is considered "administrative expenses?" Max A very important question. I found a local charity that hits up newspapers and radio stations for both publicity, and sponsorship of overhead costs, so 100% of donated money goes to the cause. United Way gives this particular charity ZIP. The charity takes needy families shopping, and outfits the kids with winter coats, mittens, and often blankets. It's called "Warm The Children" and it's been around for about 15-20 years. It's gotten bigger and bigger, but the script hasn't changed. Sounds like a good cause. With regard to "ZIP," my local UW would support any agency that makes application and qualifies. It currently allocates to 34 agencies, and that list grows as the size of the campaign increases. I especially like it because the money goes to kids in my local area. Money to United Way appears to get shifted all over the place. In my last year on the board, my local UW was forced to curtail funding for a particular agency that signed an agreement with a state wide organization that would send some of their funds out of the counties that are covered. It is outside the charter. All funds allocated have to stay in the counties covered by the local UW. If that is not adhered to fundraising would be less than effective. As you've as much as stated. I'm not saying United Way is bad, I'm just saying that there are other avenues where your money may be used more directly and efficiently to get things done. Most agencies do not have the power to raise funds via a major campaign. that particular fund raising prowness is the benefit of the UW. They do no good themselves, just raise and allocate funds very efficiently. I can assure you that the individual agencies would not be able to do that, at least in my area. The other thing I do is plant a much bigger garden than I can use personally. All the intentional excess goes to the local homeless shelter and soup kitchen. CWM |
#29
posted to alt.sailing.asa
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Here there be dictators.
I stopped giving to UW when they insisted that fags could
join Boy Scouts. SBV "Frank Boettcher" wrote in message ... ..I give my money to organizations that represent my interests...and not to blanket charities like United Way... You should. Unless your local United Way is ineffective. As a two term UW board member my eyes were opened to the effectiveness of the UW. All I can say is I would hate to be the head of a charity that goes before the UW allocation committee without all my ducks in a row. A brutal ordeal. Of course it is a local thing. Frank |
#30
posted to alt.sailing.asa
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Here there be dictators.
"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message ... On Thu, 03 May 2007 21:49:44 GMT, "Maxprop" wrote: "Frank Boettcher" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 03 May 2007 07:33:40 -0400, katy wrote: Jonathan Ganz wrote: In article , katy wrote: Katy, katy... the point is that the lobbiest money is interfering with the process. Some would claim that it's a first amendement right of theirs to pump big money to politicians to get their way, but the effect is to subvert the will of the people. If you don't think that's true, see how easy or difficult it is for a private citizen to get a private meeting with the President vs. a big sponsor. This is true for both parties. The Dems have claimed they're going to address it, but so far, nothing has happened. I wonder why?? )that's a rhetorical question) SOme of the largest lobbying groups are liberal...like i mentioned: the NEA, the AMA, 2 of the most powerful...but then, those groups are made up of people with interests who use the group effort rather than the individual effort to make their mark...many regular old citizens contribute to those groups, not just the big money...so..if you really want this war to end..start lobbying...get some big money behind you...obviously, big money isn;'t interested in ending the war... What does the political affiliation have to do with the access we're talking about? You're really stretching if you think this is good for the country. ..I give my money to organizations that represent my interests...and not to blanket charities like United Way... You should. Unless your local United Way is ineffective. As a two term UW board member my eyes were opened to the effectiveness of the UW. All I can say is I would hate to be the head of a charity that goes before the UW allocation committee without all my ducks in a row. A brutal ordeal. Of course it is a local thing. Frank--what percentage of the money collected by the United Way actually goes to the various charities? What percent is considered "administrative expenses?" Max As mentioned, it is a local thing. The local board controls the UW administrative budget, campaign expenditures, compensation levels, etc. I haven't been on the board for several years (locally, two terms of three years then off for at least one term), but when I was on the administrative budget was about 10%. For that you get a very well run campaign, with mostly volunteers as campaign coordinators and brutal scrutiny of charities that have made application to recieve funds, along with ongoing oversight. Additionally, an endowed fund has been established so that at some time in the future, the administrative expenses can come from income from the endowed fund and 100% of the campaign can pass through. Not there yet. The board is all volunteer. The local UW had three full time employee's when I was on the board, may have four now. The last campaign was 2.2 million dollars.. But it is local. The efficiency depends on board members willing to volunteer and provide the proper oversite. It took quite a bit of time. I guess I was more interested in the UW on the national level. It has been quite a while ago, but at one time the UW reported 90% administrative and 10% pass-through. Of course the various media crucified the UW for that, and changes were brought about immediately. That some fat cats were getting rich on the UW didn't cut it with donors or potential recipients. The news of the organization's malfeasance hurt it severely for a while. I'm confident that your 10% administrative is probably not far off the national level now. My wife and I contribute about $5000 to the UW each year. While we'd like to have the time to investigate which individual charities might better be served through direct donations, we find it more expedient to use the UW. I believe that's what the UW was chartered for in the first place: folks like us. Max |
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