Who are you gonna listen to?
 

Capt. JG wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...

Capt. JG wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
...


On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 22:24:24 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:



Global environmental change for the worse is happening because human
beings
are so shortsighted as to ignore their own long-term best interests.

Thus endeth the reading of the gospel according to Jon.

Max, it's an article of faith with these folks. Challenging their gospel
is
like urging that the Bible is not divinely inspired--you'll never get
that
concession from the ultra-devout.



No. It's an article of faith in science. Rightwing nuts have no interest
in facts.


And liveral create facts out of whole cloth becasue that's the way they
want it to be...and if they lie long enough and persistently enough,
enough people believe them and make it so...



I'm assuming you mean liberals. Which facts are those? Human caused global
environmental change for the worse is happening.

Nope..it's not...

If we don't do something
soon, it will spiral out of control.

And then we, like the dinosaurs, will be no more except fossils in the
ground and the earth will keep spinning, the sun will keeo shining (for
a while) and the universe will go on until the next Big Bang...all
things end...accept that...we are not infite beings..

Who are you gonna listen to?
 

Capt. JG wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...


Neither was the polio vaccine, but it saved countless lives. The fact is
that there exists things like rape and incest, which has nothing to do
with abstinence:

http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm

In part...

Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes, according to the
U.S. Department of Justice.
In 1995, 354,670 women were the victims of a rape or sexual assault.
(NationalCrime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S.
Department of Justice, 1996.)
Over the last two years, more than 787,000 women were the victim of a
rape or sexual assault. (National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of
Justice Statistics, U.S.Department of Justice, 1996.)
The FBI estimates that 72 of every 100,000 females in the United States
wereraped last year. (Federal Bureau of Investigation, Uniform Crime
Statistics, 1996.)



That's a weak argument to convinve anyone they should vaccinate themselves
with something that hasn't withstood the test of time...like I said, we
still haven't figured out the possible causation of autism from the MMR
vaccine yet and that's been well over 20 years...it's also a well known
medical fact that people who live negative paranoid lives, worrying and
stress filled, are candidates for cancer...so let's make some more
paranoia for tjem so they contract it for sure...let's tell them all
they'll get cancer if they are raped! Let's hav ewomen worry more that
they may be raped...God, this world is really becoming a very pathetic
depressing place...I prefer to live my life thinking positive thank you...



The polio vaccine is a weak argument? Rape stats are a week argument?

As far as MMR goes, there is absolutely no evidence that it causes autism.
This has been looked at over and over.

And hasn't been decided conclusively...my sister inlaw teaches autitic
kids...we have two autistic kids in the fa,ily and my other sister is a
foster care mother with 2 auristic kids...believe me, they all know what
the research going on is... that book is by no means closed...

You still haven't said why it's a problem if there's an opt out for parents
who don't agree morally or on religious grounds.

Becasuse a person as a parent shouldn't have to use religion or their
morality to make health decisions of that sort for their children. This
is not a disease that is spread in the schoolyard like mimps or measles
or even chicken pox...it is not polio which is transmissable in the
environment or like TB...this is a cancer that invades the body from a
specific activity, sex...the vector for it is very limited...your
average child is not going to contract it on the playfround (one would
hope)...

Who are you gonna listen to?
 

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...


Neither was the polio vaccine, but it saved countless lives. The fact is
that there exists things like rape and incest, which has nothing to do
with abstinence:

http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm

In part...

Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes, according to the
U.S. Department of Justice.
In 1995, 354,670 women were the victims of a rape or sexual assault.
(NationalCrime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S.
Department of Justice, 1996.)
Over the last two years, more than 787,000 women were the victim of a
rape or sexual assault. (National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of
Justice Statistics, U.S.Department of Justice, 1996.)
The FBI estimates that 72 of every 100,000 females in the United States
wereraped last year. (Federal Bureau of Investigation, Uniform Crime
Statistics, 1996.)



That's a weak argument to convinve anyone they should vaccinate
themselves with something that hasn't withstood the test of time...like I
said, we still haven't figured out the possible causation of autism from
the MMR vaccine yet and that's been well over 20 years...it's also a well
known medical fact that people who live negative paranoid lives, worrying
and stress filled, are candidates for cancer...so let's make some more
paranoia for tjem so they contract it for sure...let's tell them all
they'll get cancer if they are raped! Let's hav ewomen worry more that
they may be raped...God, this world is really becoming a very pathetic
depressing place...I prefer to live my life thinking positive thank
you...



The polio vaccine is a weak argument? Rape stats are a week argument?

As far as MMR goes, there is absolutely no evidence that it causes
autism. This has been looked at over and over.

And hasn't been decided conclusively...my sister inlaw teaches autitic
kids...we have two autistic kids in the fa,ily and my other sister is a
foster care mother with 2 auristic kids...believe me, they all know what
the research going on is... that book is by no means closed...

There is no such thing as "conclusively" when it comes to anything. The
tobaco companies are still using that argument.
Your sister is, I'm sure, a fine person, but anecdotal evidence isn't worth
much.


You still haven't said why it's a problem if there's an opt out for
parents who don't agree morally or on religious grounds.

Becasuse a person as a parent shouldn't have to use religion or their
morality to make health decisions of that sort for their children. This
is not a disease that is spread in the schoolyard like mimps or measles or
even chicken pox...it is not polio which is transmissable in the
environment or like TB...this is a cancer that invades the body from a
specific activity, sex...the vector for it is very limited...your average
child is not going to contract it on the playfround (one would hope)...

Why not? People use that for lots and lots of things. Christian Scientists
try to use it for preventing life-saving intervention.

I think the key phrase is "one would hope." Why hope when you can prevent
it? Sounds awfully like faith-based pseudo-medicine to me.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Who are you gonna listen to?
 

"katy" wrote in message
...
And Mother Nature, as she always does, will take over in the end and we
will either adapt to her or we'll go the way of the dinosaurs...keep
being a sheep, Jon...air and water pollution hurt humanity...humanity
must choose to do something about that in regards to the effects it has
on health, but it hasn't much to do with historical and cyclical global
warming or cooling...



Being a sheep means knowing what's coming and doing nothing.

Well, that explains it...you know nothing about sheep or their
behavior...sheep know little and runi in blind fear...they also follow
willingly for no reason other than they're sheep and that's what sheep
do..
It has
everything to do with historical and cyclical global warming or cooling.
The fact is that we're changing the climate

You're acting like a sheep if you follow the rest of the crowd into danger
without questioning what you're doing. I don't have to be familiar with the
behavior of farm animals, but feel free to use that spurious argument when
you have no other available.


We are not changing the climate...my God, you do think humans are
omnipotent, don't you? We are not capable of sich feats...ya
know...watching sci fi channel is fun but when you start believing some of
that crap you're in trouble...

We absolutely are. We're increasing the temperature and we're increasing the
pollutants in the atmosphere, which will result in highly variable weather.
This will cause untold millions to suffer and die.

and we need to do something or it
will get out of control and millions will suffer and/or die. I guess it's
easy to be a sheep and follow whatever Dick Cheney and big oil tells you,
but I'm willing to put more stock in what just about every climatologist
is telling us. Those with an agenda of big money and big oil are not
interested in anyone except themselves.

So move to Cuba..they'll love you there...

So, that's all you can do... don't like what the gov't is doing, so I should
leave? Ad hominem attacks are next I'm sure.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Who are you gonna listen to?
 

"katy" wrote in message
...
I'm assuming you mean liberals. Which facts are those? Human caused
global environmental change for the worse is happening.

Nope..it's not...

So, what you're saying is that you know more that every one of the respected
and knowledgeable scientists around the globe.

Got it.


If we don't do something
soon, it will spiral out of control.

And then we, like the dinosaurs, will be no more except fossils in the
ground and the earth will keep spinning, the sun will keeo shining (for a
while) and the universe will go on until the next Big Bang...all things
end...accept that...we are not infite beings..


No, humans will generally survive. We just won't be very comfortable.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Who are you gonna listen to?
 

katy wrote:


Nope..it's not...

If we don't do something
soon, it will spiral out of control.

And then we, like the dinosaurs, will be no more except fossils in the
ground and the earth will keep spinning, the sun will keeo shining (for
a while) and the universe will go on until the next Big Bang...all
things end...accept that...we are not infite beings..


That may just be the strangest non-argument I've read, it basically says
that because the dinosaurs became extinct, it's perfectly fine for
mankind to hasten his extinction and we should do nothing to prevent it.
It amounts to propounding mass suicide.

Cheers
Marty

Who are you gonna listen to?
 

Capt. JG wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...

Capt. JG wrote:

"katy" wrote in message
...



Neither was the polio vaccine, but it saved countless lives. The fact is
that there exists things like rape and incest, which has nothing to do
with abstinence:

http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm

In part...

Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes, according to the
U.S. Department of Justice.
In 1995, 354,670 women were the victims of a rape or sexual assault.
(NationalCrime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S.
Department of Justice, 1996.)
Over the last two years, more than 787,000 women were the victim of a
rape or sexual assault. (National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of
Justice Statistics, U.S.Department of Justice, 1996.)
The FBI estimates that 72 of every 100,000 females in the United States
wereraped last year. (Federal Bureau of Investigation, Uniform Crime
Statistics, 1996.)



That's a weak argument to convinve anyone they should vaccinate
themselves with something that hasn't withstood the test of time...like I
said, we still haven't figured out the possible causation of autism from
the MMR vaccine yet and that's been well over 20 years...it's also a well
known medical fact that people who live negative paranoid lives, worrying
and stress filled, are candidates for cancer...so let's make some more
paranoia for tjem so they contract it for sure...let's tell them all
they'll get cancer if they are raped! Let's hav ewomen worry more that
they may be raped...God, this world is really becoming a very pathetic
depressing place...I prefer to live my life thinking positive thank
you...



The polio vaccine is a weak argument? Rape stats are a week argument?

As far as MMR goes, there is absolutely no evidence that it causes
autism. This has been looked at over and over.

And hasn't been decided conclusively...my sister inlaw teaches autitic
kids...we have two autistic kids in the fa,ily and my other sister is a
foster care mother with 2 auristic kids...believe me, they all know what
the research going on is... that book is by no means closed...


There is no such thing as "conclusively" when it comes to anything. The
tobaco companies are still using that argument.
Your sister is, I'm sure, a fine person, but anecdotal evidence isn't worth
much.


Not anecdotal at all...she is a specially trained advocate...and has
researched the issues herself as has my SIL who holds a Master's Degree
in Education specifically of the Autistic...or are you saying that
someone with an MA isn't capable of reading research, looking at their
own personal experiences in the field and fa,ily and drawing conclusions?
http://www.vaccineinfo.net/immunizat...ismstudy.shtml

Who are you gonna listen to?
 

Capt. JG wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...

And Mother Nature, as she always does, will take over in the end and we
will either adapt to her or we'll go the way of the dinosaurs...keep
being a sheep, Jon...air and water pollution hurt humanity...humanity
must choose to do something about that in regards to the effects it has
on health, but it hasn't much to do with historical and cyclical global
warming or cooling...



Being a sheep means knowing what's coming and doing nothing.

Well, that explains it...you know nothing about sheep or their
behavior...sheep know little and runi in blind fear...they also follow
willingly for no reason other than they're sheep and that's what sheep
do..
It has

everything to do with historical and cyclical global warming or cooling.
The fact is that we're changing the climate


You're acting like a sheep if you follow the rest of the crowd into danger
without questioning what you're doing. I don't have to be familiar with the
behavior of farm animals, but feel free to use that spurious argument when
you have no other available.


We are not changing the climate...my God, you do think humans are
omnipotent, don't you? We are not capable of sich feats...ya
know...watching sci fi channel is fun but when you start believing some of
that crap you're in trouble...


We absolutely are. We're increasing the temperature and we're increasing the
pollutants in the atmosphere, which will result in highly variable weather.
This will cause untold millions to suffer and die.


and we need to do something or it

will get out of control and millions will suffer and/or die. I guess it's
easy to be a sheep and follow whatever Dick Cheney and big oil tells you,
but I'm willing to put more stock in what just about every climatologist
is telling us. Those with an agenda of big money and big oil are not
interested in anyone except themselves.

So move to Cuba..they'll love you there...


So, that's all you can do... don't like what the gov't is doing, so I should
leave? Ad hominem attacks are next I'm sure.


Keep believing all this crap that's spoon fed to you on the liveral
plate, Jon...they need velievers...they can't exist without them...I
hope when they award you with thelittle bell on a tribbon that you like
the tinkly sound it makes...

Who are you gonna listen to?
 

Capt. JG wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
...

I'm assuming you mean liberals. Which facts are those? Human caused
global environmental change for the worse is happening.

Nope..it's not...


So, what you're saying is that you know more that every one of the respected
and knowledgeable scientists around the globe.

Got it.

Nope...ny husband teaches envitonmental science...has Master;'s courses
to support it...my dad is a meteorologist, my uncle was an entymologist,
another was a botanist, and another a chemist...I come from a fam,ily
that lived and lives in the scietific community...and I draw my
conclusions from what I've read, what I've heard, and what I've
observed. Many of the scientists you refer to are just as agendized to
your postion as mine are to mine. And most likely, never the twain
shall meet...so you and I will never agree on this but, in the end, we
will all be gone and it won't matter anymore..


If we don't do something

soon, it will spiral out of control.

And then we, like the dinosaurs, will be no more except fossils in the
ground and the earth will keep spinning, the sun will keeo shining (for a
while) and the universe will go on until the next Big Bang...all things
end...accept that...we are not infite beings..


No, humans will generally survive. We just won't be very comfortable.

Who are you gonna listen to?
 

Martin Baxter wrote:
katy wrote:


Nope..it's not...

If we don't do something

soon, it will spiral out of control.

And then we, like the dinosaurs, will be no more except fossils in the
ground and the earth will keep spinning, the sun will keeo shining (for
a while) and the universe will go on until the next Big Bang...all
things end...accept that...we are not infite beings..


That may just be the strangest non-argument I've read, it basically says
that because the dinosaurs became extinct, it's perfectly fine for
mankind to hasten his extinction and we should do nothing to prevent it.
It amounts to propounding mass suicide.

Cheers
Marty

The earth has been happy without us in the past...why wouldn't she be
happy without us in the future? Mankind will survive only of it
deserves to survive...sometimes U don't think our survival in the
unicerse is a very umportant thing...