http://www.siege-engine.com/seuss/taunters.jpg

"Gilligan" wrote in message
...
http://www.siege-engine.com/seuss/taunters.jpg

so you're saying a flying, diseased cow sparked the revolution if sail
design?
Scout

"Scout" wrote in message
. ..
"Gilligan" wrote in message
...
http://www.siege-engine.com/seuss/taunters.jpg

so you're saying a flying, diseased cow sparked the revolution if sail
design?
Scout


No thanks, we've already got one.

Actually the Chinese Junk sails are the first use of a airfoil shape for
sailing. The sails are battened. They can also sail into the wind. Aircraft
wings are rigid, the are not loose fitting. Parachutes and paragliders are
like that. Kites are rigid airfoils. The Chinese invented kites and human
size gliders over 2500 years ago. I would say that theChinese airfoil
designs may have influenced their sailboats.

Another innovation using a foil is the fin keel and the articulated rudder
of Antonius Flettner. These innovations happened about the time of modern
flight.

The notion that a diseased, rotted, flying cow ushered in any type of
sailing innovation is udder nonsense.

"Gilligan" wrote in message
. ..

"Scout" wrote in message
. ..
"Gilligan" wrote in message
...
http://www.siege-engine.com/seuss/taunters.jpg

so you're saying a flying, diseased cow sparked the revolution if sail
design?
Scout


No thanks, we've already got one.

Actually the Chinese Junk sails are the first use of a airfoil shape for
sailing. The sails are battened. They can also sail into the wind.
Aircraft wings are rigid, the are not loose fitting. Parachutes and
paragliders are like that. Kites are rigid airfoils. The Chinese invented
kites and human size gliders over 2500 years ago. I would say that
theChinese airfoil designs may have influenced their sailboats.

Another innovation using a foil is the fin keel and the articulated rudder
of Antonius Flettner. These innovations happened about the time of modern
flight.

The notion that a diseased, rotted, flying cow ushered in any type of
sailing innovation is udder nonsense.


I hear the Chinese like gliding off their big wall. It was considered good
luck to yell "I fart in your general direction!" before jumping.

I guess once people got the idea of fluid movement around restrictions
creating usable pressure differentials, it became just a matter of
experimenting with different shapes and fluids.
Scout

"Scout" wrote in message
...


I guess once people got the idea of fluid movement around restrictions
creating usable pressure differentials, it became just a matter of
experimenting with different shapes and fluids.
Scout



Think of this. The sail has the most power delivered to it when the residual
wind velocity is zero after interacting with the sail.

Any leftover wind velocity is wasted energy, just like left over stean in a
steam engine.

The most efficient sail design reuses the wind velocity, similar to the
stages on a turbine engine.

The most efficient sail design of all time was developed in Northern Italy.
The design was lost during the early Renaissance, only to be recently
uncovered during and archeological dig in a shallow bay. The sails reused
the wind many times over with each "stage" adjusted for the reduced wind
velocity. The sails are a series of "slats" with multiple gaps and
adjustable angles of attack. They are referred to as Venetian Sails.

"Gilligan" wrote in message
. ..

"Scout" wrote in message
...


I guess once people got the idea of fluid movement around restrictions
creating usable pressure differentials, it became just a matter of
experimenting with different shapes and fluids.
Scout



Think of this. The sail has the most power delivered to it when the
residual wind velocity is zero after interacting with the sail.

Any leftover wind velocity is wasted energy, just like left over stean in
a steam engine.

The most efficient sail design reuses the wind velocity, similar to the
stages on a turbine engine.

The most efficient sail design of all time was developed in Northern
Italy. The design was lost during the early Renaissance, only to be
recently uncovered during and archeological dig in a shallow bay. The
sails reused the wind many times over with each "stage" adjusted for the
reduced wind velocity. The sails are a series of "slats" with multiple
gaps and adjustable angles of attack. They are referred to as Venetian
Sails.

One would think that the sheer volume of air would make its efficient use a
non-issue. Unless the point is the area of the cross-section of air
available to a given size boat is limited. If that makes any sense.
Scout

I guess once people got the idea of fluid movement around restrictions
creating usable pressure differentials, it became just a matter of
experimenting with different shapes and fluids.

When you say "experimenting with different fluids" do you
mean like sulfur dioxide? Does it increase or decrease the
efficiency of sails?




Think of this. The sail has the most power delivered to it when the
residual wind velocity is zero after interacting with the sail.


I think that's a mistaken assumption. The sail has the most
power delivered to it when it is developing max differential
pressure theoretically possible for it's density & initial
velocity.



The most efficient sail design reuses the wind velocity, similar to the
stages on a turbine engine.


True. That's why the America's Cup racers all have to be
limited by rule as for how many masts they can rig. It got
to be a PITA inventing new terms for the fifteenth &
sixteenth mizzen.


The most efficient sail design of all time was developed in Northern
Italy. The design was lost during the early Renaissance, only to be
recently uncovered during and archeological dig in a shallow bay. The
sails reused the wind many times over with each "stage" adjusted for the
reduced wind velocity. The sails are a series of "slats" with multiple
gaps and adjustable angles of attack. They are referred to as Venetian
Sails.


Now that was a very illuminating little essay



Scout wrote:
One would think that the sheer volume of air would make its efficient use a
non-issue. Unless the point is the area of the cross-section of air
available to a given size boat is limited. If that makes any sense.

Congrats, you've re-invented the term "sail area"

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
I guess once people got the idea of fluid movement around restrictions
creating usable pressure differentials, it became just a matter of
experimenting with different shapes and fluids.

When you say "experimenting with different fluids" do you mean like sulfur
dioxide? Does it increase or decrease the efficiency of sails?




Think of this. The sail has the most power delivered to it when the
residual wind velocity is zero after interacting with the sail.


I think that's a mistaken assumption. The sail has the most power
delivered to it when it is developing max differential pressure
theoretically possible for it's density & initial velocity.



The most efficient sail design reuses the wind velocity, similar to the
stages on a turbine engine.


True. That's why the America's Cup racers all have to be limited by rule
as for how many masts they can rig. It got to be a PITA inventing new
terms for the fifteenth & sixteenth mizzen.


The most efficient sail design of all time was developed in Northern
Italy. The design was lost during the early Renaissance, only to be
recently uncovered during and archeological dig in a shallow bay. The
sails reused the wind many times over with each "stage" adjusted for the
reduced wind velocity. The sails are a series of "slats" with multiple
gaps and adjustable angles of attack. They are referred to as Venetian
Sails.


Now that was a very illuminating little essay



Scout wrote:
One would think that the sheer volume of air would make its efficient use
a non-issue. Unless the point is the area of the cross-section of air
available to a given size boat is limited. If that makes any sense.

Congrats, you've re-invented the term "sail area"

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Welcome back Doug!
By "experimenting with different fluids" I meant air and water, but in
Gilly's case, he may need to understand the subtleties of sulfur sailing on
the lava lakes!
Scout

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
I guess once people got the idea of fluid movement around restrictions
creating usable pressure differentials, it became just a matter of
experimenting with different shapes and fluids.

When you say "experimenting with different fluids" do you mean like sulfur
dioxide? Does it increase or decrease the efficiency of sails?


The USS Constitution demonstrated that in light air, the speed of the ship
could be increased by spraying water on the sails.

Documented he

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/e...a/const-es.htm

Not only that the USS Constitution clearly demonstrated she could sail
directly into the wind:

http://www.americanheritage.com/arti...955_3_56.shtml

If that is not enough, here the USS Constitution is the first US warship to
to have propellers:

http://www.usni.org/navalhistory/art...ingtonApr.html





Think of this. The sail has the most power delivered to it when the
residual wind velocity is zero after interacting with the sail.


I think that's a mistaken assumption. The sail has the most power
delivered to it when it is developing max differential pressure
theoretically possible for it's density & initial velocity.

The maximum pressure differential occurs for any given windspeed when the
airspeed on the low pressure side of the sail is zero. If the velocity on
the "low pressure side" equals the velocity on the high pressure side there
is no lift.





The most efficient sail design reuses the wind velocity, similar to the
stages on a turbine engine.


True. That's why the America's Cup racers all have to be limited by rule
as for how many masts they can rig. It got to be a PITA inventing new
terms for the fifteenth & sixteenth mizzen.

They should be allowed to put masts out the sides.




The most efficient sail design of all time was developed in Northern
Italy. The design was lost during the early Renaissance, only to be
recently uncovered during and archeological dig in a shallow bay. The
sails reused the wind many times over with each "stage" adjusted for the
reduced wind velocity. The sails are a series of "slats" with multiple
gaps and adjustable angles of attack. They are referred to as Venetian
Sails.


Now that was a very illuminating little essay

Glaring, indeed.




Scout wrote:
One would think that the sheer volume of air would make its efficient use
a non-issue. Unless the point is the area of the cross-section of air
available to a given size boat is limited. If that makes any sense.

Congrats, you've re-invented the term "sail area"

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Scout" wrote in message
. ..
"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
I guess once people got the idea of fluid movement around restrictions
creating usable pressure differentials, it became just a matter of
experimenting with different shapes and fluids.

When you say "experimenting with different fluids" do you mean like
sulfur dioxide? Does it increase or decrease the efficiency of sails?




Think of this. The sail has the most power delivered to it when the
residual wind velocity is zero after interacting with the sail.


I think that's a mistaken assumption. The sail has the most power
delivered to it when it is developing max differential pressure
theoretically possible for it's density & initial velocity.



The most efficient sail design reuses the wind velocity, similar to the
stages on a turbine engine.


True. That's why the America's Cup racers all have to be limited by rule
as for how many masts they can rig. It got to be a PITA inventing new
terms for the fifteenth & sixteenth mizzen.


The most efficient sail design of all time was developed in Northern
Italy. The design was lost during the early Renaissance, only to be
recently uncovered during and archeological dig in a shallow bay. The
sails reused the wind many times over with each "stage" adjusted for the
reduced wind velocity. The sails are a series of "slats" with multiple
gaps and adjustable angles of attack. They are referred to as Venetian
Sails.


Now that was a very illuminating little essay



Scout wrote:
One would think that the sheer volume of air would make its efficient
use a non-issue. Unless the point is the area of the cross-section of
air available to a given size boat is limited. If that makes any sense.

Congrats, you've re-invented the term "sail area"

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Welcome back Doug!
By "experimenting with different fluids" I meant air and water, but in
Gilly's case, he may need to understand the subtleties of sulfur sailing
on the lava lakes!
Scout

Don't forget lava can be considered a liquid too.