Time Marches On!!!
 

In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

one is better off with a different means of deterrent than a
gun.

Oh, I forgot to ask what better deterrent might be available under SHTF
conditions? SHTF conditions are no cops, no electricity, no
transportation, no nothing and roving bands of unafraid criminals are
coming. I'm not a gun nut so I'll truly listen.

My picks if I didn't care much about collateral damage:

1. flamethrower. Bit difficult to get hold of, tho.

2. pump action shotgun loaded with buckshot.

3. Any decent semiauto .308 loaded with 150 gr JHP

4. Any decent semiauto .223 loaded with 50gr JHP.

The 308 loaded with FMJ is going to go thru the bad guy, his buddy
behind him, the house behind *him* and maybe a few other items in the
way. With JHP or a nice Nosler solid base boat tail soft nose, the bad
guy is basically going to lose a limb with a hit there, or his chest is
gonna dissolve.

PDW

Time Marches On!!!
 

In article , DSK
wrote:

You may only get into worse trouble. You might attract
heavyier caliber return fire, or you may become all that
much more attractive a target for theives who want your gun
& ammo.

Ringmaster wrote:
Not true. In New Orleans the only houses that were spared were the
ones with people and weapons inside. Home owners with weapons
protected themselves, their loveones and their STUFF!

Not true. There weren't enough looters to loot EVERY SINGLE
house in New Orleans. So you've already got odds in your
favor (provided you don't attract attention)

1- it's not a good idea to stay at home thru a disaster like
that... a lot of people died in their houses.

2- is your STUFF worth your life, caused either by disaster
or by armed confrontation with crooks? My family is, and I
plan to keep them safe by taking them elsewhere. My stuff
can sit & wait.





AR15s are also the prefered weapon when 200 zombies are coming down
your front street.


Zombies yeah, but real live people?

The .223 is too puny a round. Your best bet is to put a
bayonet on the muzzle so you can stab the looters after you
empty a magazine into them.

Loaded with FMJ, I agree with you. Loaded with a nice hunting round -
say a Sierra JHP or a soft nose 50gr pill, or a Nosler, no way.
Whatever you hit is gonna be in a world of hurt and will lose all
interest in your property, likely permanently.

Remember, this isn't a sporting contest at this point. The rules of war
WRT expanding projectiles don't apply.

IMHO a shotgun would be much
preferable.

Depends. I'd rather have both a long gun and a shotgun.

PDW

Time Marches On!!!
 

In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

My first plan would also be to get out of town. But remember I said a
SHTF condition. Shotgun would be to unwieldy inside of a house. Cut
the barrel off and that's a problem with the law. AR15 packs plenty of
punch if you are using 65 or 75 gr ammo. Normal is 45 or 55 gr. Also
most AR15s shoot 5.56 which is harder hitting than 223. There's enough
dead Iraqs to prove the AR is a good enough weapon.

Do everyone a favour. DO NOT own a gun until you learn something (more)
about them.

1. Using a rifle inside a house is plain stupid. A short barrelled
shotgun is far more useful.

2. Using heavy FMJ bullets is also stupid. Use hollowpoints or soft
nose rounds. The object is to transfer the kinetic energy into the
target, not the wall, next house, etc etc.

3. There is NO DIFFERENCE between 5.56 NATO and .223 except the labels
on the boxes. Go look up the SAAMI ammo spec if you don't believe me.

I could dig out my reloading manuals and quote loads, bullet weights
etc but frankly, I don't give a damn. I do thank my situation tho,
which is not having you for a next door neighbour.

PDW

Time Marches On!!!
 

In article , Edgar
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Vito

Same logic for fishing. Why waste time with a hook when you can use a
gillnet and have a few drinks while waiting for the fish to commit
suicide?

PDW

Why wait at all Peter?
Chuck a grenade in the water and scoop them up immediately :-)

BTDT with gelignite. Wrecks the environment and kills a lot of by-catch
you aren't interested in. Works wonders on nosy crocs, tho.

PDW

Time Marches On!!!
 

Why wait at all Peter?
Chuck a grenade in the water and scoop them up immediately :-)


Peter Wiley wrote:
BTDT with gelignite. Wrecks the environment and kills a lot of by-catch
you aren't interested in. Works wonders on nosy crocs, tho.


I bet so, especially if you can get them to swallow it first.

At one point in my life I spent a great deal of time
splashing around in the swamps of northern Florida, and
toted a .357 revolver (a Ruger Security Six to be specific).
I kept it loaded with 3 rounds of snake shot and 3 rounds of
varying hard shot.

Alligators were very common and as long as I wasn't in the
water with them, never minded them much. But one afternoon I
felt it desirable to shoot a larger specimen, about 7' or
so. He was close enough to poke with the canoe paddle, if
I'd been minded to. Rotated the chamber to a solid shot
(Winchester Silvertip IIRC), stood up, and plugged Mr Gator
right between the eyes.

He kicked around a bit in agitation, then swam away.

Very tough critters. I hear the crocs are even tougher.

DSK

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
oups.com..
..
one is better off with a different means of deterrent
than a
gun.

Oh, I forgot to ask what better deterrent might be
available under SHTF
conditions? SHTF conditions are no cops, no electricity,
no
transportation, no nothing and roving bands of unafraid
criminals are
coming. I'm not a gun nut so I'll truly listen.


grenades?

Time Marches On!!!
 

Oh, I forgot to ask what better deterrent might be available under SHTF
conditions? SHTF conditions are no cops, no electricity, no
transportation, no nothing and roving bands of unafraid criminals are
coming. I'm not a gun nut so I'll truly listen.



Peter Wiley wrote:
My picks if I didn't care much about collateral damage:

1. flamethrower. Bit difficult to get hold of, tho.

2. pump action shotgun loaded with buckshot.


What about rocksalt?
The nice thing about a pump action is that you can stuff it
with a variety of loads.


3. Any decent semiauto .308 loaded with 150 gr JHP

4. Any decent semiauto .223 loaded with 50gr JHP.

The 308 loaded with FMJ is going to go thru the bad guy, his buddy
behind him, the house behind *him* and maybe a few other items in the
way. With JHP or a nice Nosler solid base boat tail soft nose, the bad
guy is basically going to lose a limb with a hit there, or his chest is
gonna dissolve.


Yep. Especially at the ranges home defense is likely to occur.

Long time ago, the story was that the U.S. military picked
..223 in preference to .308 so as to wound enemy soldiers
rather than kill. Not out of humanity but because that way 2
of the wounded guy's buddies carry him to the rear, so 3 bad
guys leave the fight. Another reason was so that wimpy U.S.
men could pack more bullets into the fight.

Neither reason applies to home defense, although the flatter
trajectory might help produce hits.

I like the idea of a sturdy rifle with a bayonet. Only a
real psycho would rush a man with a bayonet. It's a terror
weapon, especially after you see a live person gigged like
frog before your eyes. It would help deter bad guys from
trying to grab the gun away from you, too.

In this day & time, I'd give consideration to non-lethal
deterrents too. We discussed stun grenades a while ago. They
are more effective than most people would believe, don't
know if civilians can get them.

Regards
Doug King

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Ringmaster" wrote
... I'm not a gun nut so I'll truly listen.



Scotty wrote:
grenades?


How about a good dog?

Frankly, I'm worried about liability. People have been sued
for shooting robbers. I'm not kidding.

Being sane is a handicap in a crazy country.

DSK

Time Marches On!!!
 

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
...

"katy" wrote in


So...just what East Coast disaster are you waiting for?
The mammoth
tsunami?

Even worse. Bobsprit: Escape from New York.


He won't fit through the tunnel!

Time Marches On!!!
 

Ringmaster wrote:
So...just what East Coast disaster are you waiting for? The mammoth
tsunami?

Earthquake, riots, massive power outs, zombies.

Got news for you...the zombies are already here..I saw a group of
them at Food Lion this afternoon....