"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:00:10 +0000, Peter Wiley

said:

I really can't see why you guys are getting upset.

I think most of the hysteria is fed by an underlying assumption by many
Americans that all Arabs are terrorists. They are unable or unwilling to
articulate that premise because it's un-PC to do so.

That said, the two elements that in combination give me pause are
uncertainty about how much information a port operator would have about
the
operative details of whatever security measures are adopted to safeguard
cargo, and the fact that a Dubai-based enterprise may be more vulnerable
than other enterprises might be to infiltration by people out to do us in.
The two questions are obviously inter-related.

A third question, which has not been addressed to my knowledge, is: are
there no American or non-Middle East firms that can accomplish the same job,
and if so why was the British, now UAE, firm chosen over the others? This
is a business question, not related to the two questions you posed above.

Max

In article . net,
Bob Crantz wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
.. .
On 23 Feb 2006 09:24:24 -0800, "Joe" said:

When did Taxi drivers start dealing with national security efforts?

If you wanted to get a few bombs or microbes into critical areas of NYC's
infrastructure, there's probably no easier way to do it without arousing
suspicion than by using a cab.

I think a cab would be out of place in a subway station. Don't you?

Perhaps, but given the way some of them drive, it wouldn't be that
unusual.




--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

A third question, which has not been addressed to my
knowledge, is: are
there no American or non-Middle East firms that can
accomplish the same job,
and if so why was the British, now UAE, firm chosen over
the others? This
is a business question, not related to the two questions
you posed above.

Payoffs, shhhhhh....

In article , Scotty
wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..

6. Dubai Ports has taken over P&O Ports. That means they
will be
running approx 40% of the cargo handling in Australia.
Nobody here
really cares. They are also going to be running ports in
various other
places on the planet.

Never heard of Dubai. I go to a P&O port about 4 times a
month.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/02/21/port.europe/

Icould tell you some stories about what goes on at the
piers, but it sounds like you've seen / heard it all before.

Oh yeah. Been involved with shipping for 30 odd years. Some of them
very odd. Actually wrote a port management software package back in the
early 90's, was used in BVI for a while, dunno if it still is. Good
friend of mine's brother is a wharfie (longshoreman to you), father was
one, cousins ditto, one a maritime union representative.

I like ports, ships, general maritime stuff.

PDW

In article , Dave
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:00:10 +0000, Peter Wiley
said:

I really can't see why you guys are getting upset.

I think most of the hysteria is fed by an underlying assumption by many
Americans that all Arabs are terrorists. They are unable or unwilling to
articulate that premise because it's un-PC to do so.

That said, the two elements that in combination give me pause are
uncertainty about how much information a port operator would have about the
operative details of whatever security measures are adopted to safeguard
cargo,

That is a valid concern, because the ports people have to know.

and the fact that a Dubai-based enterprise may be more vulnerable
than other enterprises might be to infiltration by people out to do us in.

Yeah, might be, but you could probably find out all you needed to know
by hanging out in the local bars. Assuming you could blend in of
course. Subcontract to Scotty......

A well run & busy port is a cash cow. You get to charge everyone for
everything and they have limited choices of what to do about it, since
the cost of building a new port is somewhere between prohibitive &
impossible. Since all costs get loaded onto the next in the food chain,
the shippers & freight forwarders don't care. They care about getting
ships/cargo turned around fast, so inefficiency is an issue, but
they'll pay what it costs.

PDW

"Peter Wiley" wrote

Never heard of Dubai. I go to a P&O port about 4 times
a
month.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/02/21/port.europe/

When they say the port of Balt, or NJ, I wonder if it means
all of them, as there are several different ports within
each city. P&O is one of 5 'lines' inside Dundalk Marine
Terminal, which is one of 5 different ports in Balt.



Icould tell you some stories about what goes on at the
piers, but it sounds like you've seen / heard it all
before.

Oh yeah. Been involved with shipping for 30 odd years.
Some of them
very odd. Actually wrote a port management software
package back in the
early 90's, was used in BVI for a while, dunno if it still
is. Good
friend of mine's brother is a wharfie (longshoreman to
you), father was
one, cousins ditto, one a maritime union representative.

I like ports, ships, general maritime stuff.


Yeah, some interesting stuff to fondle while walking around,
including sailboats.
I've gone on a few ships while docked. Just walked up the
gang plank as if I belonged there.
Gotten a LOT of ''free'' stuff off the wharfies over the
years.

My buddy and I picked up a pair of big punch presses a few
years ago. Long story short, his had $3M worth of coke
stashed inside. Customs knew about it from the origin. He
had to testify in court.


Scotty

And do you find it strange that UAE can afford Bob Doyle to lobby for
them, can get a former board member in the presidents cabinet.... and
still afford to do the job cheaper and pay more to run the port?

Just maybe they have other reasons. I'm not willing to risk it
myself. So I called Poe, and Delaney and asked them to Nix the deal.

I hear the longshoremen are all going to draw cartoons of Mohommed on
the shipping containers.
100's could die!

Joe

Well when it comes to our security some things are not for sale. Even
to the highest bidder.

The deal will be crushed. Mark my words Dave.....CRUSHED!
The cats outta the bag.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
Well when it comes to our security some things are not for sale. Even
to the highest bidder.

The deal will be crushed. Mark my words Dave.....CRUSHED!
The cats outta the bag.

Joe

The UAE ports are the most used foriegn ports by the US Navy.

The country has been a strong US ally.

Even General Tommy Franks says it's ok for the UAE to operate ports in the
US.

I'm having second thoughts on this.

Loyalty should be rewarded. Hell, Harriet Meyers almost became a SC Justice!

America - the land of opportunity!

"America is the land where anyone can become President - except me!" Barry
Goldwater


Amen!

Again I think loyality should be rewarded.

I think the UAE has enough going on here to not be ****ed they can not
run our ports too.

Let's say and American wan'ts to start-up a company or branch in the
UAE what is required.

I'll tell you what is required, you have to have a local own 51% of the
company thats what.

Ownership Requirements

Fifty-one per cent participation by UAE nationals is the general
requirement for all UAE established companies except:

Where the law requires 100% local ownership; In the Jebel Ali Free
Zone; In activities open to 100% AGCC ownership; Where wholly owned
AGCC companies enter into partnership with UAE nationals; In respect of
foreign companies registering branches or a representative office in
Dubai; In professional or artisan companies where 100% foreign
ownership is permitted.

Legal Structures for Business

In the past, each emirate followed its own procedures governing the
operations of foreign business interests. In practice, however, Dubai
and the other emirates followed the same general system, whereby
foreign companies operated in one of three ways: with a local sponsor,
through a partnership with a UAE national or company, or through a
private limited company or public shareholding company incorporated by
Ruler's decree.

Since 1984, steps have been taken to introduce a codified companies law
applicable throughout the UAE. Federal Law No. 8 of 1984, as amended by
Federal Law No. 13 of 1988 - the "Commercial Companies Law" - and its
by-laws have been issued. In broad terms the provisions of the Law are
as follows:

The Federal Law stipulates a total local equity of not less than 51% in
any commercial company and defines seven categories of business
organization which can be established in the UAE. It sets out the
requirements in terms of shareholders, directors, minimum capital
levels and incorporation procedures. It further lays down provisions
governing conversion, merger and dissolution of companies.

The seven categories of business organisation defined by the law a

General partnership company
Partnership-en-commendam
Joint venture company
Public shareholding company
Private shareholding company
Limited liability company
Share partnership company
Partnerships
Partnership companies are limited to UAE nationals only. The Dubai
government does not presently encourage the establishment of
partnership-en-commendam and share partnership companies.

Joint Venture Companies

A joint venture is a contractual agreement between a foreign party and
a local party licensed to engage in the desired activity. The local
equity participation in the joint venture must be at least 51%, but the
profit and loss distribution can be prescribed. There is no need to
license the joint venture or publish the agreement. The foreign partner
deals with third parties under the name of the local partner who -
unless the agreement is publicized - bears all liability.

In practice, joint ventures are seen as offering a suitable structure
for companies working together on specific projects.

Public and Private Shareholding Companies

The Law stipulates that companies engaging in banking, insurance, or
financial activities should be run as public shareholding companies.
Foreign banks, insurance and financial companies, however, can
establish a presence in Dubai by opening a branch or representative
office.

Shareholding companies are suitable primarily for large projects or
operations, since the minimum capital required is Dh. 10 million (US$
2.725 million) for a public company, and Dh. 2 million (US$ 0.545
million) for a private shareholding company. The chairman and a
majority of directors must be UAE nationals and there is less
flexibility of profit distribution than is permissible in the case of
limited liability companies.

Limited Liability Companies

A limited liability company can be formed by a minimum of two and a
maximum of 50 persons whose liability is limited to their shares in the
company's capital. Such companies are recognized as offering a suitable
structure for organizations interested in developing a long term
relationship in the local market.

In Dubai, the minimum capital is currently Dh. 300,000 (US$ 82,000),
contributed in cash or in kind. While foreign equity in the company may
not exceed 49%, profit and loss distribution can be prescribed.
Responsibility for the management of a limited liability company can be
vested in the foreign or national partners or a third party.

The following steps are required in establishing a limited liability
company in Dubai.

Select a commercial name for the company and have it approved by the
Licensing Department of the Economic Department; Draw up the company's
Memorandum of Association and have it notarized by a Notary Public in
the Dubai Courts; Seek approval from the Economic Department and apply
for entry in the Commercial Register; Once approval is granted, the
company will be entered in the Commercial Register and have its
Memorandum of Association published in the Ministry of Economy and
Commerce's Bulletin. The license will then be issued by the Economic
Department; The company should then be registered with the Dubai
Chamber of Commerce and Industry.

Branches and Representative Offices of Foreign Commercial Companies

The Commercial Companies Law also covers the formation and regulation
of branches and representative offices of foreign companies in the UAE
and stipulates that they may be 100% foreign owned, provided a local
agent is appointed.

Only UAE nationals or companies 100% owned by UAE nationals may be
appointed as local agents (which should not be confused with the term
"commercial agent"). Local agents -- also sometimes referred to as
sponsors -- are not involved in the operations of the company but
assist in obtaining visas, labour cards, etc and are paid a lump sum
and/or a percentage of profits or turnover. In general, branches and
offices of foreign commercial companies are not licensed to engage in
importing activity except for re-export or in the case of products of a
highly technical nature.

To establish a branch or representative office in Dubai, a foreign
commercial company should proceed as follows:

Apply for a license from the Ministry of Economy and Commerce,
submitting an agency agreement with a UAE national or 100% UAE owned
company. Before issuing the license, the Ministry will:

forward the application to the Economic Department to obtain the
approval of the Dubai government; forward the application specifying
the activity that the office or branch will be authorized to undertake
in the UAE, to the Federal Foreign Companies Committee for approval;

Once this has been done, the Ministry of Economy and Commerce will
issue the required Ministerial license specifying the activity to be
practiced by the foreign company; The branch or office should be
entered in the Economic Department's Commercial Register, and the
required license will be issued; The branch or office should also be
entered in the Foreign Companies Register of the Ministry of Economy
and Commerce; Finally the branch or office should be registered with
the Dubai Chamber of Commerce and Industry.

Branches and Representative Offices of Foreign Professional Companies

Branches and representative offices of foreign professional firms may
be 100% foreign owned provided UAE nationals or 100% UAE owned
companies are appointed as local agents. Such agents are not involved
in the operations of the firm but assist in obtaining visas, labour
cards etc and are paid a lump sum as remuneration. The Economic
Department is the authority in charge of licensing such branches or
representational offices.

Professional Firms

In setting up a professional firm, 100% foreign ownership, sole
proprietorships or civil companies are permitted. Such firms may engage
in professional or artisan activities but the number of staff members
that may be employed is limited. A UAE national must be appointed as
local service agent, but he has no direct involvement in the business
and is paid a lump sum and/or percentage of profits or turnover. The
role of the local service agent is to assist in obtaining licenses,
visas, labour cards, etc.


Joe