Geesh, Max, hold old are you? Roll tacking has
been acceptable for as long as I can remember.
They're just now beginning to crack down on
kinetics. And in my opinion, the Laser class
overlooks more kinetics than any other class. You
can always spot the Laser sailors when they
sailing in another class. They're the ones
ooching, sculling, pumping, torquing, and roll
jibing every 30 seconds. Interestingly, they're
also the ones not getting along with their crew.
Kind of explains why they single hand.
S.
"Maxprop" wrote in message
k.net...
:: Roll-tacking was not allowed in Snipe events
when I raced them. Now
: apparently it's SOP. When just sailing around
the lake with friends or my
: wife, I used to roll-tack the Snipe and found it
to be a very effective way
: to power through the tack. This was long before
discussions of the maneuver
: hit the sailing press. Later I used it
routinely when racing Lasers, but
: finally was DSQ'd in one race in a regatta in
Michigan for using "disallowed
: kinetics." Forced to stop, it ****ed me off so
thoroughly that I sold the
: Laser and quit dingy racing altogether. It was
a bitter pill to discover
: that years later it was considered okay.
:
: Max
:
:

"NotPony" wrote in messag

Geesh, Max, hold old are you? Roll tacking has
been acceptable for as long as I can remember.

I sailed Snipes in the early 70s. The SCIRA rule book, at that time,
prohibited "ooching, sculling, pumping, rocking, and any other kinetic
movements which might give the competitor an unfair advantage." I never
roll tacked in a race, but did so all the time while just day sailing the
boat. The Snipe roll tacks as well as any boat I've sailed, which is
probably why Snipe sailors all do it these days.

They're just now beginning to crack down on
kinetics. And in my opinion, the Laser class
overlooks more kinetics than any other class.

When I began to sail Lasers in '72, no one was roll tacking except me and a
few others from fleets in and around Detroit and Indianapolis. (I can't
honestly say what was happening out West or East, however.) Other skippers
used to ask me what I was doing, and I was always happy to oblige with info
and instructions on how to do it. Unfortunately one of them was a district
officer who took my information back to a national meeting at which kinetics
were deemed "unfair." The following spring I sailed in a regatta on the
Detroit River and was DSQ'd in a race for roll-tacking. I still won my
class, but that race was my throwout. Lucky for me it was my second to last
race, because I did poorly in the last race after being told I'd be DSQ'd if
I roll tacked even once. ****ed off, I sold the boat, and three years
later everyone was roll-tacking Lasers. The national big wigs must have had
a change of heart, or at least decided they'd be unable to stop something
that everyone was doing by then.

You
can always spot the Laser sailors when they
sailing in another class. They're the ones
ooching, sculling, pumping, torquing, and roll
jibing every 30 seconds. Interestingly, they're
also the ones not getting along with their crew.
Kind of explains why they single hand.

Actually it's that they normally single hand that makes them unable to get
along with crew. After single handing for a year or so, I found it
frustrating to go back to having a crew (my wife) who couldn't read my mind.
It was simply awful to have to vocalize intentions and instructions again.
After dumping the Laser, I bought another Snipe and regretted it for the
entire season. Sold it in the Fall. It was either that or face the
prospect of divorce. g It was a good decision, because we've been married
for almost 35 years.

Max

Maxprop wrote:
"NotPony" wrote in messag

Geesh, Max, hold old are you? Roll tacking has
been acceptable for as long as I can remember.

I sailed Snipes in the early 70s. The SCIRA rule book, at that time,
prohibited "ooching, sculling, pumping, rocking, and any other kinetic
movements which might give the competitor an unfair advantage."
....

There was a lot of debate in the late '60's as to whether roll tacking
was considered kinetics. I was taught in 1965 to roll tack, but to
avoid doing it aggressively or too frequently. That is, it was OK to
do it to avoid losing ground on a tack, but not OK if you were gaining.

I remember a day when it was absolutely dead calm and a dozen teams
were sitting on the dock waiting for a breeze, and one team challenged
another to a roll tack race. Four or five teams hopped in their Tech
Dinghies and started roll tacking around the river. Several were so
good they seemed to be doing 2 or 3 knots! It was a bit of an eye
opener for me.

Jeff wrote....


I remember a day when it was absolutely dead calm and we motored.
Winds picked up and still we motored. Everyone was sailing, heeled over
and really feeling it. We have a multihull. We motored and motored and
motored....and motored some more.

Jeff

Capt. Rob wrote:
Jeff wrote....


I remember a day when it was absolutely dead calm and we motored.
Winds picked up and still we motored.
....

Wow, that's really funny, Bob. Perhaps your most creative yet.

But seriously, what are you going to do now that you know that your
new boat is such a dog in light air it needs and extra 24 seconds/mile
handicap to stay with the Catalinas and Hunters? It sure looks like
this "stepping stone" was a step backwards in performance.

Good research, there, Bob. At least you have A/C so it won't be so
horrific sitting at the dock.

But seriously, what are you going to do now that you know that your
new boat is such a dog in light air it needs and extra 24 seconds/mile
handicap to stay with the Catalinas and Hunters?


Are you suggesting that a Catalina 36 or 34 will sail faster in light
air??? Do tell.


RB
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:
But seriously, what are you going to do now that you know that your
new boat is such a dog in light air it needs and extra 24 seconds/mile
handicap to stay with the Catalinas and Hunters?


Are you suggesting that a Catalina 36 or 34 will sail faster in light
air??? Do tell.


I only have the numbers to go by - there are several Catalinas whose
ratings are only about a dozen seconds slower than your boat. The
bendy, however, needs a huge handicap to catch up - 12 to 14 seconds
more than various Catalinas. What its saying is that the rating of
the 35s5 is really about the same as the Catalina 34 and 36 in light
air.

This isn't my "opinion," these are the facts. For opinions, you can
find numerous people who say that the bendy is hard to sail to its
potential, and requires high skills of both helm and crew. You're the
one who claimed the rating is actually too low and "average" skippers
have trouble winning because of that.

Further, your mylar sails doesn't count for much - you could add those
to any boat. Can you point to your long experience winning races with
fractional rigs? The light air difference between the bendy and your
old C&C with you at the helm may be too small to measure.

Now if you really wanted a light air cruiser, you could have had this
for $64,000:
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/classi...p40_bquest.jpg
PHRF of about 42, with a light air adjustment of -26, for a net rating
of 16.

Wow, that's really funny, Bob.


Humor and truth...a great combo!
I just wish my boat was faster than a catalina 36 in light air!


RB
35s5
NY

One of the problems is that coaches, particularly
on the college, level aren't making sure the
sailors understand the rules. One of the coaches
I hired was sailing in one of our fun races. He
was continually pumping upwind in about 5k. I
pulled him aside later and told him he was
breaking rule 42. He and another college sailor
told me that their coaches had told them that
pumping was ok on the basis of 'once per wave'.
Neither of them had a copy of a rule book (kind of
dumb in my opinion) so I pointed out 42.2 and 42.3
Yeah, once per wave, but not beating and only if
surfing or planing is possible.
S.

"Maxprop" wrote in message
.net...
: I sailed Snipes in the early 70s. The SCIRA
rule book, at that time,
: prohibited "ooching, sculling, pumping, rocking,
and any other kinetic
: movements which might give the competitor an
unfair advantage." I never
: roll tacked in a race, but did so all the time
while just day sailing the
: boat. The Snipe roll tacks as well as any boat
I've sailed, which is
: probably why Snipe sailors all do it these days.
:
: They're just now beginning to crack down on
: kinetics. And in my opinion, the Laser class
: overlooks more kinetics than any other class.
:
: When I began to sail Lasers in '72, no one was
roll tacking except me and a
: few others from fleets in and around Detroit and
Indianapolis. (I can't
: honestly say what was happening out West or
East, however.) Other skippers
: used to ask me what I was doing, and I was
always happy to oblige with info
: and instructions on how to do it. Unfortunately
one of them was a district
: officer who took my information back to a
national meeting at which kinetics
: were deemed "unfair." The following spring I
sailed in a regatta on the
: Detroit River and was DSQ'd in a race for
roll-tacking. I still won my
: class, but that race was my throwout. Lucky for
me it was my second to last
: race, because I did poorly in the last race
after being told I'd be DSQ'd if
: I roll tacked even once. ****ed off, I sold the
boat, and three years
: later everyone was roll-tacking Lasers. The
national big wigs must have had
: a change of heart, or at least decided they'd be
unable to stop something
: that everyone was doing by then.
:
: You
: can always spot the Laser sailors when they
: sailing in another class. They're the ones
: ooching, sculling, pumping, torquing, and roll
: jibing every 30 seconds. Interestingly,
they're
: also the ones not getting along with their
crew.
: Kind of explains why they single hand.
:
: Actually it's that they normally single hand
that makes them unable to get
: along with crew. After single handing for a
year or so, I found it
: frustrating to go back to having a crew (my
wife) who couldn't read my mind.
: It was simply awful to have to vocalize
intentions and instructions again.
: After dumping the Laser, I bought another Snipe
and regretted it for the
: entire season. Sold it in the Fall. It was
either that or face the
: prospect of divorce. g It was a good
decision, because we've been married
: for almost 35 years.
:
: Max
:
: