what stuff?
can you send some here?
gf

OzOne wrote in message ...

Yep
the stuff is good.

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

I don't believe he said cam cleat... just cleat.. which means horn
cleat to me. That's why I mentioned it.

Nope, the jibsheet being in a camcleat was specifically mentioned.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

"Seahag" wrote ...

Look up!

For the helicopter?

"Scott Vernon" wrote:

"Seahag" wrote ...

Look up!

For the helicopter?

It can be a very welcome sight ya know:^)

Seahag

OzOne wrote:
"Seahag" scribbled thusly:

Hey! You just getting up? Oh, Saturday already...Detailed Clementine
yesterday (Thursday), that back to black stuff really works on the flares,
thanks:^)

Just getting up?
Not bloody likely.
Rowing season has started again 4.30am start to get on the water by
5.30.
No sailing this weekend, my son is in the middle of his final year
exams.
One more week and he's done.

Yep
the stuff is good.


You're rowing?

Seahag

(Jonathan Ganz) wrote in message ...
In article ,
tom wrote:
I hope no one minds a question from a lurker who drops by from time to
time.

The subject of experiencing a knockdown was recently raised and I'd
like to further extend the subject by asking what can/should one do
when knocked down?

I was recently on a 21 footer with my son-in-law at the till cruising
along fairly well with 25-30 knot winds when he noticed we were
heading into an area of additional wind. While alerting me, he
disengaged the mainsheet and when we rolled he let it fly. The roll
took us over nearly 90 degrees and we shipped water over the coaming 6
to 10 inches in depth. Realizing how little effect releasing the main
had had, he tried to uncleat the jib. This is where we found that
despite the angle of the sail to the wind, little or no wind was being
dumped and it was a difficult task, to say the least, to uncleat the
sheet. In our case, he tried three or four mighty tugs while on the
high side of the boat with no success, so he dropped down to the low
side in order to grasp the sheet close to the camcleat and after a
couple more mighty tugs it came loose and we righted.

Did he do the right thing? Or should something else have been done?

We remind that it was a 21 footer, with a centerboard.

I'd say preparing to release the jib sooner would have helped. Also,
not heading into the area of higher wind, turning more to wind, and
releasing the main before the higher wind came to fore would have been
appropriate. I don't think there's much else you could do. You didn't
say whether or not you were reefed. That would help a lot, but it's
pretty hard to do with just a few seconds.

I have a 20 footer with a 950 pound keel, so I'm in better shape. We
sail in similar conditions.

FIRST: I wish to thank everyone for responding to my post providing
food for thought.

It seems I didn't list sufficient info so here are some additional facts:

We were sailing with a reefed main and full jib. Despite the wind, we
were listing only 25 or so degrees. It is not unusual for us to hit a
a patch of additional wind and list 40-45 degrees; normally, releasing
the main a bit will suffice righting to a more comfortable aspect, and
this is what was expected, but did not occur: the boat was knocked over.
While that action was not violent, it was very quick, and the rudder was
quickly airborne and useless.

The knockdown was a first and a surprise for the both of us as neither of
us are anything but a "weekend sailor." We were sailing as we usually
sailed, with the jib sheet held by a cam* cleat. There is no way in my
estimation that one could physically hold the sheet as there is
considerable pull being exerted. Obviously, if it was known or suspected
that we were heading for a knockdown the jib sheet would have been
loosened, but such was not the case. And once we were knocked down there
was too much pressure on the mechanism to quickly release the sheet. The
boat does have winches but we have never used them to restrain a jib sheet.

*That's what Harken calls them. They consist of two cams with teeth
which exert more and more force to hold the sheet as the jib pulls on
the sheet harder.

Thanks again for your comments.

Tom,

There are a lot of things I'm not sure of in your question? Are you
using self tailing winches? Is your main and traveler center boom or
end?

It sounds like he released the main from the Cabin top. If that was the
case, then you probably should have been easing INTO the wind enough to
keep the hull under you but still be making headway while he adjusted
the jib sheet.

The helm should start getting heavy (weather helm) as you heel. When
this happens it is time to start adjusting sail trim. You want some
weather helm (About 15 degrees)

The easiest and fastest way to release air is with the helm, into the
wind and then sail adjustments.

Ole Thom

"Seahag" wrote in message
...

"Scott Vernon" wrote:

"Seahag" wrote ...

Look up!

For the helicopter?

It can be a very welcome sight ya know:^)

I wouldn't know.

Ozzy wrote

Been rowing since I was a kid, and still haven't gotten any where.

tom wrote:

The knockdown was a first and a surprise for the both of us as
neither of us are anything but a "weekend sailor." We were sailing
as we usually sailed, with the jib sheet held by a cam* cleat.
There is no way in my estimation that one could physically hold
the sheet as there is considerable pull being exerted. Obviously,
if it was known or suspected that we were heading for a knockdown
the jib sheet would have been loosened, but such was not the case.
And once we were knocked down there was too much pressure on the
mechanism to quickly release the sheet. The boat does have winches
but we have never used them to restrain a jib sheet.

Sounds like you should be putting the jibsheet on a winch, then.

With 2 or 3 turns around the winch, there'll be enough friction to be able
to keep the sheet tight without cleating it, and still be able to ease it
instantly should a knockdown loom. If you get a gust and the crew has to
ease the jib, he just has to step over once the boat comes back up and turn
the winch to sheet in, rope already around the winch, minimal effort.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk