What to do in a severe knockdown?
 

I hope no one minds a question from a lurker who drops by from time to
time.

The subject of experiencing a knockdown was recently raised and I'd
like to further extend the subject by asking what can/should one do
when knocked down?

I was recently on a 21 footer with my son-in-law at the till cruising
along fairly well with 25-30 knot winds when he noticed we were
heading into an area of additional wind. While alerting me, he
disengaged the mainsheet and when we rolled he let it fly. The roll
took us over nearly 90 degrees and we shipped water over the coaming 6
to 10 inches in depth. Realizing how little effect releasing the main
had had, he tried to uncleat the jib. This is where we found that
despite the angle of the sail to the wind, little or no wind was being
dumped and it was a difficult task, to say the least, to uncleat the
sheet. In our case, he tried three or four mighty tugs while on the
high side of the boat with no success, so he dropped down to the low
side in order to grasp the sheet close to the camcleat and after a
couple more mighty tugs it came loose and we righted.

Did he do the right thing? Or should something else have been done?

We remind that it was a 21 footer, with a centerboard.

Thanks.

In article ,
tom wrote:
I hope no one minds a question from a lurker who drops by from time to
time.

The subject of experiencing a knockdown was recently raised and I'd
like to further extend the subject by asking what can/should one do
when knocked down?

I was recently on a 21 footer with my son-in-law at the till cruising
along fairly well with 25-30 knot winds when he noticed we were
heading into an area of additional wind. While alerting me, he
disengaged the mainsheet and when we rolled he let it fly. The roll
took us over nearly 90 degrees and we shipped water over the coaming 6
to 10 inches in depth. Realizing how little effect releasing the main
had had, he tried to uncleat the jib. This is where we found that
despite the angle of the sail to the wind, little or no wind was being
dumped and it was a difficult task, to say the least, to uncleat the
sheet. In our case, he tried three or four mighty tugs while on the
high side of the boat with no success, so he dropped down to the low
side in order to grasp the sheet close to the camcleat and after a
couple more mighty tugs it came loose and we righted.

Did he do the right thing? Or should something else have been done?

We remind that it was a 21 footer, with a centerboard.

I'd say preparing to release the jib sooner would have helped. Also,
not heading into the area of higher wind, turning more to wind, and
releasing the main before the higher wind came to fore would have been
appropriate. I don't think there's much else you could do. You didn't
say whether or not you were reefed. That would help a lot, but it's
pretty hard to do with just a few seconds.

I have a 20 footer with a 950 pound keel, so I'm in better shape. We
sail in similar conditions.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

tom wrote:

Did he do the right thing? Or should something else have been done?

I guess the answer is that the jibsheet should have been released sooner.
Maybe the helm should be looking after the mainsheet as well as the tiller?

I crew on a 22.5-footer, and the helm handles mainsheet and tiller. If we're
short-handed while out in a blow, I lead the free end of the cleated
jibsheet (goes from coaming, to coachroof winch, down to a clamcleat on the
bulkhead) over to the high side and drape it round the other winch. If
things go pear-shaped, I can dump air from the jib without having to move
around the boat.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

tom wrote:
Did he do the right thing? Or should something else have been done?


Well, you lived to tell about it, so how wrong could it be? But there
may be better ways to handle the situation.


Wally wrote:
I guess the answer is that the jibsheet should have been released sooner.
Maybe the helm should be looking after the mainsheet as well as the tiller?

I think that's a good answer. It's universal on small boats.


I crew on a 22.5-footer, and the helm handles mainsheet and tiller. If we're
short-handed while out in a blow, I lead the free end of the cleated
jibsheet (goes from coaming, to coachroof winch, down to a clamcleat on the
bulkhead) over to the high side and drape it round the other winch. If
things go pear-shaped, I can dump air from the jib without having to move
around the boat.


The big payoff is when the sheets are trimmed pro-actively, with
feedback from the hand on the helm. As the boat gets overpowered, the
helm loads up and easing the main keeps the boat on her feet and
driving... at some point, as the main is eased, the force on the jib
tends to push the bow to leeward so that helps the boat balance too.

But if the boat heels too far and the force on the jib too great, it can
not only lay the boat on her side but also spin it to leeward... a bad
scenario. My philosophy has always been to start easing the jib sheet as
well as the main, any time the gust is bad enough to require easing more
than, say a foot or so, of mainsheet.

It all require some forethought. FOr example, the time to think about
putting in the hatchboards is not when the water is already pouring in!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

on my boat, i don't cleat the jib
i take enough turns around the cleat to allow it to friction slide based on
wind conditions
if the wind picks up the jib "automatically" releases

it also sound as though he cleated it in a way that jambed it from releasing
a book of knots for xmas would do him well
gf


"tom" wrote in message
om...
I hope no one minds a question from a lurker who drops by from time to
time.

The subject of experiencing a knockdown was recently raised and I'd
like to further extend the subject by asking what can/should one do
when knocked down?

I was recently on a 21 footer with my son-in-law at the till cruising
along fairly well with 25-30 knot winds when he noticed we were
heading into an area of additional wind. While alerting me, he
disengaged the mainsheet and when we rolled he let it fly. The roll
took us over nearly 90 degrees and we shipped water over the coaming 6
to 10 inches in depth. Realizing how little effect releasing the main
had had, he tried to uncleat the jib. This is where we found that
despite the angle of the sail to the wind, little or no wind was being
dumped and it was a difficult task, to say the least, to uncleat the
sheet. In our case, he tried three or four mighty tugs while on the
high side of the boat with no success, so he dropped down to the low
side in order to grasp the sheet close to the camcleat and after a
couple more mighty tugs it came loose and we righted.

Did he do the right thing? Or should something else have been done?

We remind that it was a 21 footer, with a centerboard.

Thanks.

In article , gonefishiing wrote:
on my boat, i don't cleat the jib
i take enough turns around the cleat to allow it to friction slide based on
wind conditions
if the wind picks up the jib "automatically" releases

How do you tighten the sheet in heavy air? Do you have it around a
winch before the cleat? Seems like you'd be getting a lot of
unnecessary chafe from around a cleat.


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

yes it around the winch
cafe?
oh that's the coffee place

chafe?
what chafe?
chafe happens when lines move back and forth
not enough from an even sliding that anything discernible should be
discussed

its friday: i'm out of here with my daughter to find some place in the west
village for some dolce
ciao....adomani
gf.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article , gonefishiing
wrote:
on my boat, i don't cleat the jib
i take enough turns around the cleat to allow it to friction slide based
on
wind conditions
if the wind picks up the jib "automatically" releases

How do you tighten the sheet in heavy air? Do you have it around a
winch before the cleat? Seems like you'd be getting a lot of
unnecessary chafe from around a cleat.


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article , gonefishiing wrote:
yes it around the winch
chafe happens when lines move back and forth
not enough from an even sliding that anything discernible should be
discussed

Well, seems to me that if there's any significan easing of the sheet,
there would be significant friction on the line... on a relatively
rough surface also. I try not to treat my lines to that. You must sail
in pretty light wind conditions most of the time.



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Best thing for a jib sheet is a jam cleat. Holds tight but is easy to release
in an emergency.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article , gonefishiing
wrote:
yes it around the winch
chafe happens when lines move back and forth
not enough from an even sliding that anything discernible should be
discussed

Well, seems to me that if there's any significan easing of the sheet,
there would be significant friction on the line... on a relatively
rough surface also. I try not to treat my lines to that. You must sail
in pretty light wind conditions most of the time.



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Unless the original poster misspoke, he called it a "cam cleat", shouldn't
have any friction easing as the sheet has to be popped out of the cleat
before it can run. It will only pull through the cleat in one direction.
What I don't understand is why it was so difficult to release the jibsheet
from the cleat, they are designed so that upward pressure on the sheet(and
not a lot) should pop the sheet out of the cleat.
Based on what was originally posted I could only suggest taking a look at
how the sheets and cleats are routed, then make any necessary changes.
John Cairns