Capt. Mooron wrote

You've never been on a Cabo Rico 38.... then of course that's evident.

Express 30?? Good Grief!

You're saying a Cabo Rico 38 is faster than an Express 30?

DSK

Express 30?? Good Grief!

You're saying a Cabo Rico 38 is faster than an Express 30?


No, I think he's saying it's about 350 times better in nearly every respect. It
might still beat the Express over a long passage. The CR 38 is not a slow
cruising boat.

RB

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
| Capt. Mooron wrote
|
| You've never been on a Cabo Rico 38.... then of course that's evident.
|
| Express 30?? Good Grief!
|
| You're saying a Cabo Rico 38 is faster than an Express 30?

Doug, I know you to be a man of numbers and stats... so I will provide the
table below from SailCalc... along with the fact that the Cabo Rico 38 is
the fastest cruiser I have sailed on. We averaged 11 knots over Yellow Banks
in the Bahamas on one.

As Follows

Performance Comparison LOA Cabo Rico 38 38

Express 30 30

LWL Cabo Rico 38 29.9

Express 30 24.5

Beam Cabo Rico 38 11.6

Express 30 10

Displacement Cabo Rico 38 21500

Express 30 8200

Sail Area Cabo Rico 38 969

Express 30 472

Capsize Ratio Cabo Rico 38 1.67

Express 30 1.98

Hull Speed Cabo Rico 38 7.33

Express 30 6.63

Sail Area to Displacement Cabo Rico 38 20.05

Express 30 18.57

Displacement to LWL Cabo Rico 38 359

Express 30 249

LWL to Beam Cabo Rico 38 2.58

Express 30 2.45

Motion Comfort Cabo Rico 38 38.96

Express 30 22.39

Pounds/Inch Cabo Rico 38 1239

Express 30 875



Yes... faster than the Express 30.

CM

Yes... faster than the Express 30.


Mooron, the CR 38 will generally only be faster over blue water passages.
Around the bouys the Express 30 would be faster and certainly point higher.
Doesn't matter worth a damn in any case. The CR 38 is a real yacht and the
Express is a toy by any comparison.
The CR is pretty close to a world class yacht.

RB

| You're saying a Cabo Rico 38 is faster than an Express 30?

Capt. Mooron wrote:
Doug, I know you to be a man of numbers and stats... so I will provide the
table below from SailCalc... along with the fact that the Cabo Rico 38 is
the fastest cruiser I have sailed on. We averaged 11 knots over Yellow Banks
in the Bahamas on one.

Well, that's not slow... OTOH what were the conditions, and what will
the boat do under "normal" (meaning normal for the area and season)
sailing conditions?


Performance Comparison
Hull Speed Cabo Rico 38 7.33

Express 30 6.63

Well, that's to be expected when the CR 38 is more than 1/4 again as
long... assuming that the boat will reach close to hull speed under
normal sailing conditions.


Sail Area to Displacement Cabo Rico 38 20.05

Express 30 18.57

Now that's an interesting figure... the CR 38 has pretty decent sail area


Displacement to LWL Cabo Rico 38 359

Express 30 249

It's also got a much heavier "footprint." I'd be surprised if the CR 38
got all that close to hull speed except under favorable conditions,
whereas the Express 30 performs quite well under a wide variety of
conditions.

I think that off the wind, especially in choppy seas, the CR 38 would be
faster... on a long passage it should be faster...




Yes... faster than the Express 30.

As I said under some conditions, it would be reasonable to expect that.

But for all-round sailing? Let me put it this way... PHRF rating
committees think that the CR 38 is noticably slower than the Express
30... enough so that they would rarely be in the same class.

BTW the Cabo Rico 38 is a Mark Ellis design, right? He's noted for being
able to design comfy boats that sail well... but he's not a magician!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

BTW the Cabo Rico 38 is a Mark Ellis design, right? He's noted for being
able to design comfy boats that sail well... but he's not a magician!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Doug really cracks me up. I already acurately summed up the CR 38's abilities
and he just acts as though he knew it all along...after I already posted it.
What an idiot!

RB

"DSK" wrote in message
...
But for all-round sailing? Let me put it this way... PHRF rating
committees think that the CR 38 is noticably slower than the Express
30... enough so that they would rarely be in the same class.

BTW the Cabo Rico 38 is a Mark Ellis design, right? He's noted for being
able to design comfy boats that sail well... but he's not a magician!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

And, since there are any number of blue water cruisers of similar length
that are considerably faster than a CR 38, I would be more likely to
characterize the CR 38 as "slow". Claiming that a CR 38 will do 11 knots is
a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
John Cairns

Claiming that a CR 38 will do 11 knots is
a bit of a stretch, don't you think?


John, you know better than this.

RB

"John Cairns" wrote in message

| And, since there are any number of blue water cruisers of similar length
| that are considerably faster than a CR 38, I would be more likely to
| characterize the CR 38 as "slow". Claiming that a CR 38 will do 11 knots
is
| a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
| John Cairns

Well now John... since you've failed to provide a list of 38 foot vessels
that are faster... and I'm certain there are quite a few.... your point
seems contentious rather than clarifying.

I'm not certain what to make of the last part.... are you in effect
accusing me of fabrication or that the vessel is incapable of such speeds?

CM

"John Cairns" wrote

| And, since there are any number of blue water cruisers of similar length
| that are considerably faster than a CR 38, I would be more likely to
| characterize the CR 38 as "slow". Claiming that a CR 38 will do 11 knots
is
| a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
| John Cairns


Capt. Mooron wrote:
Well now John... since you've failed to provide a list of 38 foot vessels
that are faster... and I'm certain there are quite a few.... your point
seems contentious rather than clarifying.

Yeah, John, what are you tryin' to do... start an arument?!?


I'm not certain what to make of the last part.... are you in effect
accusing me of fabrication or that the vessel is incapable of such speeds?

Well, you did say you're not much of a "numbers" kind of guy.

I think that you're falling too much into the Boobsprit way of
thinking... that an Express 30 must be POS because... umm, because...
oh, I know: because you hear so much bad talk about it on the internet!
Actually it's very nice boat, hardly a lightweight around-the-bouys
racer, with probably more cabin space than your boat.

Personally, it seems unlikely to me that the CR 38 would beat an Express
30 under any circumstances unless you really stacked the deck to favor
it. OTOH it's a lot roomier and probably noticably more comfortable in a
chop.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King