EG Jeff, I think you got the makins of a book here.
Title page:
JAXAshby Rules of Navigation
or
Navigation By Dummies

footnote: all rules compiled from FAA regulations
caution: nothing contained in this book should be taken seriously,
except by those exclusively using their backyard wading pool (maximum
water depth, 4") for their boating needs.

Jeff Morris wrote:
Jaxie's simplistic mind can't cope with mixing two concepts. He confuses "using
DR" with "relying 100% on DR." He never figured out that combining DR with
other info, such as observing lobster pots, depth soundings, and fog signals is
generally adequate.

He seems terrified of coastal cruising, but at the same time claims that
learning both DR and piloting techniques is worthless. My favorite "jaxisms"
involve his misunderstanding of piloting and his belief that compasses are
worthless.

-------------------

On Navigation (or is he talking about snakes?):
This one kept us going for a month or so - Jax insists that piloting skills are
not needed in sight of land.

"scootss, you need *piloting* to "get around" in the Cheasepeake? All that
water and land and islands and markers and lights and boas confuse you?"

-------------------

Just to make sure he meant that:


you claimed that
piloting skills are not needed for sailing waters like LIS.


"They are not. You can see everything easily. Getting lost on western LIS is
impossible (unless you're dumb enough to go out in one of the rare fogs.)"

-----------

... Somewhere in there you implied
that taking a course on navigation was a total waste of time and money.


"You need a nav course to see a daymarker a half mile away? (besides, one of the
**serious** problems of a nav course -- as taught by the USPS -- is that a
compass and knot log is all you need to avoid hitting the rocks in a fog.)"

------------------------
on compasses and navigation:
Jax has a pathological fear of using a compass. Since he never learned any
piloting skills, he believes the compass is useless:

"a compass never has told you anything other than which way is North and so
never was worth much as a "navigation" tool."
---------
"no, jeffie, this the point that JAX with the experience tells you without that
you can't navigate with a compass."

--------------------------------
On variation & compasses:
Since he never uses a compass, he doesn't understand variation:

I think it's about 14 degree east here in nyc.


That's strange, my chart of New York City says
"Var 13 degrees 15 minutes WEST"


jeff, if you say it's west instead of east, I say okay. I use charts of nyc
area to know where the rocks are. Compass isn't much use there, is it?

--------------------------
On compass dip and variation, he thinks dip is built into the compass:

"markie, dip is a function of the compass construction. Variation is a function
of the Earth. Anyone who claims to be "The Navigator" should know this, don't
you think?"

it
only involves speed,time, and heading,

shen, that *IS* the definition of ded reckoning. what you describe "improved"
DR is in fact pilotage, a whole different breed of cat.

Jaxie's simplistic mind can't cope with mixing two concepts. He confuses
"using
DR" with "relying 100% on DR." He never figured out that combining DR with
other info, such as observing lobster pots, depth soundings, and fog signals
is
generally adequate.


jeffies, what you describe above is not DR, but rather pilotage. HUGE
difference in the number or rocks a boat might hit.

change to FAA, all physicists on the planet, and all knowledgeable mariners.

EG Jeff, I think you got the makins of a book here.
Title page:
JAXAshby Rules of Navigation
or
Navigation By Dummies

footnote: all rules compiled from FAA regulations
caution: nothing contained in this book should be taken seriously,
except by those exclusively using their backyard wading pool (maximum
water depth, 4") for their boating needs.

Jeff Morris wrote:
Jaxie's simplistic mind can't cope with mixing two concepts. He confuses
"using
DR" with "relying 100% on DR." He never figured out that combining DR
with
other info, such as observing lobster pots, depth soundings, and fog
signals is
generally adequate.

He seems terrified of coastal cruising, but at the same time claims that
learning both DR and piloting techniques is worthless. My favorite
"jaxisms"
involve his misunderstanding of piloting and his belief that compasses are
worthless.

-------------------

On Navigation (or is he talking about snakes?):
This one kept us going for a month or so - Jax insists that piloting skills
are
not needed in sight of land.

"scootss, you need *piloting* to "get around" in the Cheasepeake? All that
water and land and islands and markers and lights and boas confuse you?"

-------------------

Just to make sure he meant that:


you claimed that
piloting skills are not needed for sailing waters like LIS.


"They are not. You can see everything easily. Getting lost on western LIS
is
impossible (unless you're dumb enough to go out in one of the rare fogs.)"

-----------

... Somewhere in there you implied
that taking a course on navigation was a total waste of time and money.


"You need a nav course to see a daymarker a half mile away? (besides, one
of the
**serious** problems of a nav course -- as taught by the USPS -- is that a
compass and knot log is all you need to avoid hitting the rocks in a fog.)"

------------------------
on compasses and navigation:
Jax has a pathological fear of using a compass. Since he never learned any
piloting skills, he believes the compass is useless:

"a compass never has told you anything other than which way is North and so
never was worth much as a "navigation" tool."
---------
"no, jeffie, this the point that JAX with the experience tells you without
that
you can't navigate with a compass."

--------------------------------
On variation & compasses:
Since he never uses a compass, he doesn't understand variation:

I think it's about 14 degree east here in nyc.


That's strange, my chart of New York City says
"Var 13 degrees 15 minutes WEST"


jeff, if you say it's west instead of east, I say okay. I use charts of
nyc
area to know where the rocks are. Compass isn't much use there, is it?

--------------------------
On compass dip and variation, he thinks dip is built into the compass:

"markie, dip is a function of the compass construction. Variation is a
function
of the Earth. Anyone who claims to be "The Navigator" should know this,
don't
you think?"

Subject: DR practice
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 08/07/2004 07:02 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

it
only involves speed,time, and heading,

shen, that *IS* the definition of ded reckoning. what you describe
"improved"
DR is in fact pilotage, a whole different breed of cat.



No jaxass. That is YOUR limited definition of DR.
What I described is NOT piloting, as piloting involves fixes.
In truth, the two can be and frequently are, used in conjunction, but that's
beyond you -you're still at the "definition" stage.

Shen

DR, even by your definition, is one component of Piloting. While DR is not
"perfect" (not that anything is) it is still useful. But since you don't know
how DR or any other form of piloting works, you'll never understand.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Jaxie's simplistic mind can't cope with mixing two concepts. He confuses
"using
DR" with "relying 100% on DR." He never figured out that combining DR with
other info, such as observing lobster pots, depth soundings, and fog signals
is
generally adequate.


jeffies, what you describe above is not DR, but rather pilotage. HUGE
difference in the number or rocks a boat might hit.

pilotAGE, not pilotING. there is a difference, dood.

What I described is NOT piloting,

dood, if you are taking fixes on marker buoys, bottom depth, sounds from shore,
smells from onshore restaurants, THEN you are usaging pilotAGE, **not** deduced
reckoning.

this is easy stuff, shen. pay attention.

What I described is NOT piloting, as piloting involves fixes.

now, listen up, shen, one more fricken time. **IT IS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO
KNOW WHERE YOU ARE MOVING TO/FROM RELATIVE TO THE WATER AROUND YOU WITHOUT
**OUTSIDE** REFERENCES.

that is a fact of physics, shen. if you personally have so far been lucky to
have not crashed into anything when you were drunkenly, blindly wandering
around in a fog in a rocky channel, that means only that you were lucky. That
time. you didn't know where you were even if you thought you did. you just
got lucky, that is all.

it is a physics thing, shen. you know, those damned laws of physics as voted
on by corrupt politicians.


it
only involves speed,time, and heading,

shen, that *IS* the definition of ded reckoning. what you describe
"improved"
DR is in fact pilotage, a whole different breed of cat.



No jaxass. That is YOUR limited definition of DR.
What I described is NOT piloting, as piloting involves fixes.
In truth, the two can be and frequently are, used in conjunction, but that's
beyond you -you're still at the "definition" stage.

Shen

Hey jaxie, its also physically impossible to know absolutely where you are even
with outside references. Its all a matter of how much uncertainty you're
willing to accept.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
now, listen up, shen, one more fricken time. **IT IS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO
KNOW WHERE YOU ARE MOVING TO/FROM RELATIVE TO THE WATER AROUND YOU WITHOUT
**OUTSIDE** REFERENCES.

that is a fact of physics, shen. if you personally have so far been lucky to
have not crashed into anything when you were drunkenly, blindly wandering
around in a fog in a rocky channel, that means only that you were lucky. That
time. you didn't know where you were even if you thought you did. you just
got lucky, that is all.

it is a physics thing, shen. you know, those damned laws of physics as voted
on by corrupt politicians.


it
only involves speed,time, and heading,

shen, that *IS* the definition of ded reckoning. what you describe
"improved"
DR is in fact pilotage, a whole different breed of cat.



No jaxass. That is YOUR limited definition of DR.
What I described is NOT piloting, as piloting involves fixes.
In truth, the two can be and frequently are, used in conjunction, but that's
beyond you -you're still at the "definition" stage.

Shen