What If #4-Answer
 

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Sorry about the delay - I've been away for a few days. BTW, I was 125
miles
from my berth - how far offshore was I?

Probably about a mile!



Peter said:

Keep in mind that if Donal tried to go 30 miles offshore,
he'd hit France.

And you responded:

Idiot!!!
The last person who made that dumb mistake was Jax!!!!!
Stick to English literature. You know nothing about geography.
Cherebourg is my nearest French port, and it is 74 nautical
miles from Portsmouth Harbour entrance.

It sure seems to me that you were trying to claim that the measuring
of
"offshore" begins at your harbor entrance. Otherwise, why would you
mention
that point as opposed to any other point along the way? If not, you
might have
said Cherbourg is 56 miles off from St. Catherine's, your actual point
of
departure from the British coast.

Nonsense! I don't go anywhere near St Cat's when I go to Cherbourg.

OK, you would pass a few miles away from it as you go along the Isle of
Wight
coast. Big deal. I didn't really think you touch the light, since its on
land.
You probably pass close enough by to see it on a clear day. So how far
offshore
are you then?

About three to five miles (from Ventnor).




Actually, most measures of "offshore" start a
ways out, perhaps 12 miles. But that starts looking pretty close to
Peter's
claim - not bad for someone 12,000 miles away.

Really, Jeff! Is there no limit to the ignorance that you are willing
to
display in a public forum?
There are *two* major flaws in your (very weak) argument.

Flaws? Doubtful ...

There is no doubt at all. One mile offshore is one mile from the shore.
That is completely different from "offshore sailing".






1) If you sailed 30 miles offshore - how far from the shore would you
be?


That depends on the local geography. Are you claiming that if you sailed
30
miles down a river you would be 30 miles offshore? Are you claiming that
if
Booby went 30 mile NE from his berth he'd be 30 miles offshore?

No. I'm trying t



I am sure that you are not stupid enough to persist in your lame
assertion
that I am actually 18 miles "Offshore" when I have sailed 30 miles out
from
the shore.

I just tossed that out as a possibility - here in the US East Coast an
"Inland"
Master's License is good about 10 miles out. As I mentioned, there are a
number
of ways to measure "offshore," but starting 8 miles behind an island is
not one
of them.

Why not start from the shoreline?

I get the impression that you cannot distinguish between "offshore sailing"
and "sailing x miles offshore".

I can often sail three miles offshore, but that is nothing like offshore
sailing.







2) I don't sail anywhere near St. Catherine's point when I go to
Cherbourg!
If you want to move my "shore" out to sea, then you could use Bembridge
Ledge. That is still 64 miles from Cherbourg.


Do you really think I give a rat's ass what route you take? Even from
Bembridge you're going along the coast of the Isle of Wight for a number
of
miles.

Not unless you have a very unusual tide. It is common to go near St Cats on
the return journey, however it is very unusual to go near it on the outward
leg.



Are you claiming that's offshore? All you've done here is to admit that
the Portsmouth Harbor entrance is not "offshore."

Once again, you demonstrate a pedantic desire to demonstrate that I have
claimed to have done "offshore sailing". I have never claimed to have done
"offshore sailing". I only sail in the English Channel.









But you wanted to play the pompous ass, so you had to use the larger
measure.

Nope! I made a factual statement.


You tried to claim that the Portsmouth Harbor entrance was "offshore."
You're
either incompetent or a liar. Frankly, this casts serious doubt as to
whether
you have even sailed in the area!

This is particularly egregious given that several posts back you scoffed
at my
comments about going 20 mile "up the coast" and I pointed out the I didn't
begin
to count the distance until I was in the open ocean. Now you're claiming
that
offshore is 8 miles behind the Isle of Wight.



BTW, I'm much better at pomposity than you are!

I bow to the master! But this seems to be your only talent.

Correct!






And being greedy, you picked the furthest distance and got burned.
Sorry
Donal - you got just what you deserve. I'll bet your petard is pretty
sore
right now!

Jeff, you should take another look at the chart.

Why? Are you still claiming the Portsmouth Harbor is "offshore"? Has it
moved
lately, or is it still tucked in behind the Isle of Wight?

Jeff, if you sailed a mile out of Portsmouth Harbour, would you be a mile
offshore?




And why would you assume I even have a chart of your home waters?
Frankly, I
doubt that many of the readers here have any knowledge of your area. We
depend
on your honesty in describing your home waters - too bad you let us down.

Tsk. Tsk.





My route to Cherbourg involves a trip to Bembridge Ledge, followed by a
beeline to Cherbourg.

So? Do you have a point here? You're just admitting that the point you
claimed
was "offshore" is actually 8 miles inland of Bembridge.

I think that I claimed that I couldn't hit France when I was 30 miles
offshore.
You have made strenuous efforts to prove me wrong. You are a complete
idiot. So far, your argument is based upon your innacurate interpretation
of some large scale maps of the Solent. Let us assume that you are correct
when you (stupidly) think that I pass close to St Cats. How far is it from
St Cats to Cherbourg? Is it less than 30 miles - or is it 55 miles?






Peter said that I would hit France if I Went 30 miles offshore.

You are a pair of idiots.

And what do you call someone who doesn't understand the water he claims to
sail
in all the time? Surely "idiot" doesn't begin to measure the depth of
your
blunder here, Donal.

30 miles - or 55 miles, Jeff????

Regards


Donal
--

What If #4-Answer
 

Jeff,

I'm not taking side with you and Donal. This discussion of offshore was
started by a statement that in the English Channel France was only 30
miles away. This is not a quote but a recap. Donal pointed out from his
Moorage to the nearest French Port was ( I think) he said 76 miles. That
sounded reasonable. The channel is a rather large body of water.

How the discussion got turned into an Offshore debate, I don't know?
Just wanted to say the channel is a large chunk off water. Doesn't have
to take a back seat to Chesapeake, Long Island Sound, SF Bay or my
beloved Puget Sound.

"nuff said:
Ole Thom

How to service and keep in service a dry powder extinguisher
 

Sounds about right. you're twice my displacement, I think...

Scott Vernon wrote:

I have a 2.5lb right inside the companionway, a 5lb on the mast support pole
, and a 2.5 on a shelf (will eventually go in the laz).
Good thread. I just checked some of my home extinguishers. Some are caked.
My two 17lb are not caked but a little low on pressure. I have 8 of the big
water/air pressure ones in the barn and garage.

Scotty

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...

Scott Vernon wrote:

Would several small ones, placed strategically around the boat, be
better
than one (or 2) big one?

Depends on the boat. Where are people going to be when a fire
breaks out? On Lady Kate, the two likely places for a fire
outbreak are the motor/fuel store, and (tops) the galley. The
four most likely places for people to be are the cockpit (which
is small on Lady Kate), the galley, the forward saloon or the
sleeping quarters below the cockpit. I carry two 2.5kg
extinguishers: one is at the galley, easily accessible from the
cockpit and by anyone fleeing up the companionway ladder out of
the galley. It would not be reachable by someone in the forward
saloon, so that's where the other unit is carried. Because i'm
singlehanding usually, the stern sleeping quarters aren't
regularly used: I should really have a small unit in there too.

The motor is outboard and the fuel is in a free-draining well
outside the watertight envelope: the galley extinguisher serves
as first attack there too.

Kay Cottee ('First Lady') carried four in a 37' 6'11" beam boat,
but that was for six months round the world non-stop. Size isn't
specified, the one visible in a photo in the book looks like a
2-2.5kg and I'd be surprised if they were only 1kg.

Now, design your own.



Does it make a difference if they are hung horizontally, as far as the
caking?


Not really, just cakes horizontally so it doesn't flow cleanly.

And a really bad idea is to hang upside down, cos then it cakes
and jams the nozzle/release!


Scotty, the main problem with the 1kg weenies is they just don't
squirt for very long, and there's a tendency in an emergency to
anxiously hold the trigger open until it runs out. Then if
there's a flareup, there's nothing left. (In a lot of respects,
the old, forbidden BCF was a much better extinguisher for
enclosed and semi-enclosed places, provided you remembered not to
die of asphyxiation--fire it and shut the lid!) A 1kg will do for
a small car provided it's not asked to do too much, but for a
boat the size everyone here claims to have, especially for those
who leave maked flames untended, no doubt under the deep frier


Scotty

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...


wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:53:32 +0930, Flying Tadpole

wrote:



This is a device that may be called upon to save your boat, your
life,
or the
lives of others. If you need to hit it with a hammer, it is way past
due
for
replacement, regardless of what the 3 cent gauge says, or what you
hear
flowing.
A new extinguisher is about $20-$30. Jeez. Stick to insipid verse.
You're
extremely no good at this.

BB


You're an even bigger fool than your repartee would suggest, and
you can't read either. What hammer? WHat hit? Throw away good
extinguishers because the powder has caked slightly? My
extinguishers come in at about $150 each, which is what you pay
for size and ruggedness (say, $US70). You want to play with weeny
toys and bet your life on them, go right ahead. I'm sure you
could find some 1/4lb extinguishers on ebay, secondhand, for $5
if you looked hard enough.

For other readers: 6 months is enough for the powder to cake
significantly, even with a bit of a shake from time to time. The
how-to given IN FULL in my original post is straight out of
commercial (and professional) practice.

--
SSO (ret'd) Flying Tadpole, BFSA(lapsed!)

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

How to service and keep in service a dry powder extinguisher
 

30', 7800#


"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...
Sounds about right. you're twice my displacement, I think...

Scott Vernon wrote:

I have a 2.5lb right inside the companionway, a 5lb on the mast support
pole
, and a 2.5 on a shelf (will eventually go in the laz).
Good thread. I just checked some of my home extinguishers. Some are
caked.
My two 17lb are not caked but a little low on pressure. I have 8 of the
big
water/air pressure ones in the barn and garage.

Scotty

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...

Scott Vernon wrote:

Would several small ones, placed strategically around the boat, be
better
than one (or 2) big one?

Depends on the boat. Where are people going to be when a fire
breaks out? On Lady Kate, the two likely places for a fire
outbreak are the motor/fuel store, and (tops) the galley. The
four most likely places for people to be are the cockpit (which
is small on Lady Kate), the galley, the forward saloon or the
sleeping quarters below the cockpit. I carry two 2.5kg
extinguishers: one is at the galley, easily accessible from the
cockpit and by anyone fleeing up the companionway ladder out of
the galley. It would not be reachable by someone in the forward
saloon, so that's where the other unit is carried. Because i'm
singlehanding usually, the stern sleeping quarters aren't
regularly used: I should really have a small unit in there too.

The motor is outboard and the fuel is in a free-draining well
outside the watertight envelope: the galley extinguisher serves
as first attack there too.

Kay Cottee ('First Lady') carried four in a 37' 6'11" beam boat,
but that was for six months round the world non-stop. Size isn't
specified, the one visible in a photo in the book looks like a
2-2.5kg and I'd be surprised if they were only 1kg.

Now, design your own.



Does it make a difference if they are hung horizontally, as far as
the
caking?


Not really, just cakes horizontally so it doesn't flow cleanly.

And a really bad idea is to hang upside down, cos then it cakes
and jams the nozzle/release!


Scotty, the main problem with the 1kg weenies is they just don't
squirt for very long, and there's a tendency in an emergency to
anxiously hold the trigger open until it runs out. Then if
there's a flareup, there's nothing left. (In a lot of respects,
the old, forbidden BCF was a much better extinguisher for
enclosed and semi-enclosed places, provided you remembered not to
die of asphyxiation--fire it and shut the lid!) A 1kg will do for
a small car provided it's not asked to do too much, but for a
boat the size everyone here claims to have, especially for those
who leave maked flames untended, no doubt under the deep frier


Scotty

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...


wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:53:32 +0930, Flying Tadpole

wrote:



This is a device that may be called upon to save your boat, your
life,
or the
lives of others. If you need to hit it with a hammer, it is way
past
due
for
replacement, regardless of what the 3 cent gauge says, or what
you
hear
flowing.
A new extinguisher is about $20-$30. Jeez. Stick to insipid
verse.
You're
extremely no good at this.

BB


You're an even bigger fool than your repartee would suggest, and
you can't read either. What hammer? WHat hit? Throw away good
extinguishers because the powder has caked slightly? My
extinguishers come in at about $150 each, which is what you pay
for size and ruggedness (say, $US70). You want to play with weeny
toys and bet your life on them, go right ahead. I'm sure you
could find some 1/4lb extinguishers on ebay, secondhand, for $5
if you looked hard enough.

For other readers: 6 months is enough for the powder to cake
significantly, even with a bit of a shake from time to time. The
how-to given IN FULL in my original post is straight out of
commercial (and professional) practice.

--
SSO (ret'd) Flying Tadpole, BFSA(lapsed!)

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

What If #4-Answer
 

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Jeff,

I'm not taking side with you and Donal. This discussion of offshore was
started by a statement that in the English Channel France was only 30
miles away. This is not a quote but a recap. Donal pointed out from his
Moorage to the nearest French Port was ( I think) he said 76 miles. That
sounded reasonable. The channel is a rather large body of water.

How the discussion got turned into an Offshore debate, I don't know?
Just wanted to say the channel is a large chunk off water. Doesn't have
to take a back seat to Chesapeake,

yes it does.

What If #4-Answer
 

Its very simple Thom, we're not talking about the English Channel. We're
talking about the 10 to 15 miles of protected water Donal sails through before
he gets there.

Remember, just one or two posts earlier Donal had scoffed at my comment that I
had done a number of open ocean trips last year, the shortest of which was
twenty miles. I even mentioned that I didn't bother to count the distance until
we were in open water, with 3000 miles of fetch to the east. And before that
Donal insisted that it didn't count as sailing unless is was so rough you had
seal up the boat.

I agreed that Peter's estimate wasn't quite right, but pointed out that 30 miles
offshore would put you closer to France than to England. Donal was being rather
disingenuous first by presuming that everyone is fully aware of the details of
his home waters, and then by using a point miles behind an island and a large
breakwater as the beginning of "offshore."

Let me put it another way: if RB claimed he was going 50 miles offshore, where
would we start the measure? City Island? The Battery? Verrazanno? I think
that anyone from the area would say Sandy Hook is where you'd have to start.

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Jeff,

I'm not taking side with you and Donal. This discussion of offshore was
started by a statement that in the English Channel France was only 30
miles away. This is not a quote but a recap. Donal pointed out from his
Moorage to the nearest French Port was ( I think) he said 76 miles. That
sounded reasonable. The channel is a rather large body of water.

How the discussion got turned into an Offshore debate, I don't know?
Just wanted to say the channel is a large chunk off water. Doesn't have
to take a back seat to Chesapeake, Long Island Sound, SF Bay or my
beloved Puget Sound.

"nuff said:
Ole Thom

What If #4-Answer
 

In article , Jeff Morris
wrote:

Its very simple Thom, we're not talking about the English Channel. We're
talking about the 10 to 15 miles of protected water Donal sails through before
he gets there.

Remember, just one or two posts earlier Donal had scoffed at my comment that I
had done a number of open ocean trips last year, the shortest of which was
twenty miles. I even mentioned that I didn't bother to count the distance
until
we were in open water, with 3000 miles of fetch to the east. And before that
Donal insisted that it didn't count as sailing unless is was so rough you had
seal up the boat.

I agreed that Peter's estimate wasn't quite right, but pointed out that 30
miles
offshore would put you closer to France than to England. Donal was being
rather
disingenuous first by presuming that everyone is fully aware of the details of
his home waters, and then by using a point miles behind an island and a large
breakwater as the beginning of "offshore."

Let me put it another way: if RB claimed he was going 50 miles offshore, where
would we start the measure? City Island? The Battery? Verrazanno? I think
that anyone from the area would say Sandy Hook is where you'd have to start.

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Jeff,

I'm not taking side with you and Donal. This discussion of offshore was
started by a statement that in the English Channel France was only 30
miles away. This is not a quote but a recap.

I overestimated the minimum distance.

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/world/A0817371.html

Narrowest point is 34 km (21 statute miles). So 30 miles offshore would
be to my thinking 33 nm off the coast unless you're in a bight in which
case it might be more, drawing a line across the bight as an obviously
arbitrary starting line. Call it 60 km.

Shrug. Donal's home port is further from France than this, esp if you
count all the distance from his boat's berth as offshore, as he has
done.

It's a daysail distance. A bit further than Hobart to Port Arthur. A
lot less than Hobart to Port Davey or Macquarie Harbour.

Donal pointed out from his
Moorage to the nearest French Port was ( I think) he said 76 miles. That
sounded reasonable. The channel is a rather large body of water.

How the discussion got turned into an Offshore debate, I don't know?
Just wanted to say the channel is a large chunk off water. Doesn't have
to take a back seat to Chesapeake, Long Island Sound, SF Bay or my
beloved Puget Sound.

It's certainly full of ship traffic of all sizes. Distance-wise
east-west, it's not very far to the other side - see above - which was
the point that Donal took exception to. Torres Strait is 130 km wide,
Bass Strait is 240 km wide, for example.

1308 nm from Hobart to Auckland. 380 nm from Darwin to Dili. 981 nm
Darwin to Port Moresby. etc.

PDW

How to service and keep in service a dry powder extinguisher
 

OK,OK, so I'm carrying more weight than I realised at max. 3000kg
(29'6"). I did admit I should have a third unit in the stern
cabin....

FT

Scott Vernon wrote:

30', 7800#

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...
Sounds about right. you're twice my displacement, I think...

Scott Vernon wrote:

I have a 2.5lb right inside the companionway, a 5lb on the mast support
pole
, and a 2.5 on a shelf (will eventually go in the laz).
Good thread. I just checked some of my home extinguishers. Some are
caked.
My two 17lb are not caked but a little low on pressure. I have 8 of the
big
water/air pressure ones in the barn and garage.

Scotty

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...

Scott Vernon wrote:

Would several small ones, placed strategically around the boat, be
better
than one (or 2) big one?

Depends on the boat. Where are people going to be when a fire
breaks out? On Lady Kate, the two likely places for a fire
outbreak are the motor/fuel store, and (tops) the galley. The
four most likely places for people to be are the cockpit (which
is small on Lady Kate), the galley, the forward saloon or the
sleeping quarters below the cockpit. I carry two 2.5kg
extinguishers: one is at the galley, easily accessible from the
cockpit and by anyone fleeing up the companionway ladder out of
the galley. It would not be reachable by someone in the forward
saloon, so that's where the other unit is carried. Because i'm
singlehanding usually, the stern sleeping quarters aren't
regularly used: I should really have a small unit in there too.

The motor is outboard and the fuel is in a free-draining well
outside the watertight envelope: the galley extinguisher serves
as first attack there too.

Kay Cottee ('First Lady') carried four in a 37' 6'11" beam boat,
but that was for six months round the world non-stop. Size isn't
specified, the one visible in a photo in the book looks like a
2-2.5kg and I'd be surprised if they were only 1kg.

Now, design your own.



Does it make a difference if they are hung horizontally, as far as
the
caking?


Not really, just cakes horizontally so it doesn't flow cleanly.

And a really bad idea is to hang upside down, cos then it cakes
and jams the nozzle/release!


Scotty, the main problem with the 1kg weenies is they just don't
squirt for very long, and there's a tendency in an emergency to
anxiously hold the trigger open until it runs out. Then if
there's a flareup, there's nothing left. (In a lot of respects,
the old, forbidden BCF was a much better extinguisher for
enclosed and semi-enclosed places, provided you remembered not to
die of asphyxiation--fire it and shut the lid!) A 1kg will do for
a small car provided it's not asked to do too much, but for a
boat the size everyone here claims to have, especially for those
who leave maked flames untended, no doubt under the deep frier


Scotty

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...


wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:53:32 +0930, Flying Tadpole

wrote:



This is a device that may be called upon to save your boat, your
life,
or the
lives of others. If you need to hit it with a hammer, it is way
past
due
for
replacement, regardless of what the 3 cent gauge says, or what
you
hear
flowing.
A new extinguisher is about $20-$30. Jeez. Stick to insipid
verse.
You're
extremely no good at this.

BB


You're an even bigger fool than your repartee would suggest, and
you can't read either. What hammer? WHat hit? Throw away good
extinguishers because the powder has caked slightly? My
extinguishers come in at about $150 each, which is what you pay
for size and ruggedness (say, $US70). You want to play with weeny
toys and bet your life on them, go right ahead. I'm sure you
could find some 1/4lb extinguishers on ebay, secondhand, for $5
if you looked hard enough.

For other readers: 6 months is enough for the powder to cake
significantly, even with a bit of a shake from time to time. The
how-to given IN FULL in my original post is straight out of
commercial (and professional) practice.

--
SSO (ret'd) Flying Tadpole, BFSA(lapsed!)

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

How to service and keep in service a dry powder extinguisher
 

myboat is 29'6'' also. It's easier to say 30'er, when asked.

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...
OK,OK, so I'm carrying more weight than I realised at max. 3000kg
(29'6"). I did admit I should have a third unit in the stern
cabin....

don't put it off. Do it this week!

How to service and keep in service a dry powder extinguisher
 

Scotty wrote...

my boat is woth $29 dollars. It's easier to say 30 bucks, when asked.