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How to service and keep in service a dry powder extinguisher
Scott Vernon wrote: Would several small ones, placed strategically around the boat, be better than one (or 2) big one? Depends on the boat. Where are people going to be when a fire breaks out? On Lady Kate, the two likely places for a fire outbreak are the motor/fuel store, and (tops) the galley. The four most likely places for people to be are the cockpit (which is small on Lady Kate), the galley, the forward saloon or the sleeping quarters below the cockpit. I carry two 2.5kg extinguishers: one is at the galley, easily accessible from the cockpit and by anyone fleeing up the companionway ladder out of the galley. It would not be reachable by someone in the forward saloon, so that's where the other unit is carried. Because i'm singlehanding usually, the stern sleeping quarters aren't regularly used: I should really have a small unit in there too. The motor is outboard and the fuel is in a free-draining well outside the watertight envelope: the galley extinguisher serves as first attack there too. Kay Cottee ('First Lady') carried four in a 37' 6'11" beam boat, but that was for six months round the world non-stop. Size isn't specified, the one visible in a photo in the book looks like a 2-2.5kg and I'd be surprised if they were only 1kg. Now, design your own. Does it make a difference if they are hung horizontally, as far as the caking? Not really, just cakes horizontally so it doesn't flow cleanly. And a really bad idea is to hang upside down, cos then it cakes and jams the nozzle/release! Scotty, the main problem with the 1kg weenies is they just don't squirt for very long, and there's a tendency in an emergency to anxiously hold the trigger open until it runs out. Then if there's a flareup, there's nothing left. (In a lot of respects, the old, forbidden BCF was a much better extinguisher for enclosed and semi-enclosed places, provided you remembered not to die of asphyxiation--fire it and shut the lid!) A 1kg will do for a small car provided it's not asked to do too much, but for a boat the size everyone here claims to have, especially for those who leave maked flames untended, no doubt under the deep frier Scotty "Flying Tadpole" wrote in message ... wrote: On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:53:32 +0930, Flying Tadpole wrote: This is a device that may be called upon to save your boat, your life, or the lives of others. If you need to hit it with a hammer, it is way past due for replacement, regardless of what the 3 cent gauge says, or what you hear flowing. A new extinguisher is about $20-$30. Jeez. Stick to insipid verse. You're extremely no good at this. BB You're an even bigger fool than your repartee would suggest, and you can't read either. What hammer? WHat hit? Throw away good extinguishers because the powder has caked slightly? My extinguishers come in at about $150 each, which is what you pay for size and ruggedness (say, $US70). You want to play with weeny toys and bet your life on them, go right ahead. I'm sure you could find some 1/4lb extinguishers on ebay, secondhand, for $5 if you looked hard enough. For other readers: 6 months is enough for the powder to cake significantly, even with a bit of a shake from time to time. The how-to given IN FULL in my original post is straight out of commercial (and professional) practice. -- SSO (ret'd) Flying Tadpole, BFSA(lapsed!) ------------------------- Break Away, Sail Away and putz away now at http://music.download.com/internetopera -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Break Away, Sail Away and putz away now at http://music.download.com/internetopera |
How to service and keep in service a dry powder extinguisher
Flying Tadpole wrote in message ...
Dry chemical extinguishers are IMO the worst choice anyone can make to use. CO2 is the way to go. Dry make a god aweful mess and are not the most effective for different types of fires. Only thing I can think they are good for is an electrical fire, but be prepared to rip out everything the chemical touches. Purple K is by far the most destructive fire suppressent ever made. Joe 1. Inspect pressure gauge (where fitted). If it's out of the green, get it professionally serviced anyway (or if a cheapie, buy a new one). If it's dribbling powder, ditto. 2. Alongside your ear, tilt the extinguished gently. If the powder is properly free, you should both hear it and feel the transfer of weight as it literally flows from one end of the extinguisher to the other. 3. if 2. doesn't work at all, or not much, grab a rubber tyre mallet or other padded mallet (but NOT a sledgehammer, or anything that will give a really sharp blow). 4. With the mallet, tap the base of the extinguisher gently until the dry powder flows as in 2. If it's badly caked, this may take a lot of taps. AVoid the temptation to beat the sh*t out of it after the fifteenth tap. 5. Regularly (eg each time you're down at the boat) give it both a shake and turn upside down lsitening to the powder flow. if it doesn't, reservice. 6. throw out those teeny extinguishers and get at least a 1.5kg, in multiples. wrote: This is exactly why you should have multiple ABC extinquishers, placed strategically around the boat. The C.G. minimums are woefully inadequate. Buy bigger, and more. Here's a little tip to make sure they are working when you need them: When routinely safety checking your boat, remove each extinguisher from it's bracket and shake the hell out of it. The main reason for failure in these extinguishers, besides leakdown, is caking of the powder. BB |
What If #4-Answer
Sorry about the delay - I've been away for a few days. BTW, I was 125 miles
from my berth - how far offshore was I? Comments interspersed ... "Donal" wrote in message ... "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... "Donal" wrote "Jeff Morris" wrote Donal complains about your geography, but he considers the Portsmouth Harbour entrance, which is about 8 miles up the Solent, to be "offshore." You are hallucinating, Jeff. What on Earth makes you say that I think that Portsmouth Harbour entrance is "offshore"? I really think that you should consider withdrawing that silly remark. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! What are you going to do, turn me in to the "out of context cops"??? OK, if you insist, let's review: Peter said: Keep in mind that if Donal tried to go 30 miles offshore, he'd hit France. And you responded: Idiot!!! The last person who made that dumb mistake was Jax!!!!! Stick to English literature. You know nothing about geography. Cherebourg is my nearest French port, and it is 74 nautical miles from Portsmouth Harbour entrance. It sure seems to me that you were trying to claim that the measuring of "offshore" begins at your harbor entrance. Otherwise, why would you mention that point as opposed to any other point along the way? If not, you might have said Cherbourg is 56 miles off from St. Catherine's, your actual point of departure from the British coast. Nonsense! I don't go anywhere near St Cat's when I go to Cherbourg. OK, you would pass a few miles away from it as you go along the Isle of Wight coast. Big deal. I didn't really think you touch the light, since its on land. You probably pass close enough by to see it on a clear day. So how far offshore are you then? Actually, most measures of "offshore" start a ways out, perhaps 12 miles. But that starts looking pretty close to Peter's claim - not bad for someone 12,000 miles away. Really, Jeff! Is there no limit to the ignorance that you are willing to display in a public forum? There are *two* major flaws in your (very weak) argument. Flaws? Doubtful ... 1) If you sailed 30 miles offshore - how far from the shore would you be? That depends on the local geography. Are you claiming that if you sailed 30 miles down a river you would be 30 miles offshore? Are you claiming that if Booby went 30 mile NE from his berth he'd be 30 miles offshore? Sorry Donal, any child understands the fallacy of this argument. This has to be the stupidest thing you, or anyone else has claimed on this forum in a long time! I am sure that you are not stupid enough to persist in your lame assertion that I am actually 18 miles "Offshore" when I have sailed 30 miles out from the shore. I just tossed that out as a possibility - here in the US East Coast an "Inland" Master's License is good about 10 miles out. As I mentioned, there are a number of ways to measure "offshore," but starting 8 miles behind an island is not one of them. 2) I don't sail anywhere near St. Catherine's point when I go to Cherbourg! If you want to move my "shore" out to sea, then you could use Bembridge Ledge. That is still 64 miles from Cherbourg. Do you really think I give a rat's ass what route you take? Even from Bembridge you're going along the coast of the Isle of Wight for a number of miles. Are you claiming that's offshore? All you've done here is to admit that the Portsmouth Harbor entrance is not "offshore." But you wanted to play the pompous ass, so you had to use the larger measure. Nope! I made a factual statement. You tried to claim that the Portsmouth Harbor entrance was "offshore." You're either incompetent or a liar. Frankly, this casts serious doubt as to whether you have even sailed in the area! This is particularly egregious given that several posts back you scoffed at my comments about going 20 mile "up the coast" and I pointed out the I didn't begin to count the distance until I was in the open ocean. Now you're claiming that offshore is 8 miles behind the Isle of Wight. BTW, I'm much better at pomposity than you are! I bow to the master! But this seems to be your only talent. And being greedy, you picked the furthest distance and got burned. Sorry Donal - you got just what you deserve. I'll bet your petard is pretty sore right now! Jeff, you should take another look at the chart. Why? Are you still claiming the Portsmouth Harbor is "offshore"? Has it moved lately, or is it still tucked in behind the Isle of Wight? And why would you assume I even have a chart of your home waters? Frankly, I doubt that many of the readers here have any knowledge of your area. We depend on your honesty in describing your home waters - too bad you let us down. My route to Cherbourg involves a trip to Bembridge Ledge, followed by a beeline to Cherbourg. So? Do you have a point here? You're just admitting that the point you claimed was "offshore" is actually 8 miles inland of Bembridge. Peter said that I would hit France if I Went 30 miles offshore. You are a pair of idiots. And what do you call someone who doesn't understand the water he claims to sail in all the time? Surely "idiot" doesn't begin to measure the depth of your blunder here, Donal. |
How to service and keep in service a dry powder extinguisher
Joe, the issue with CO2 is dispersion and the resultant loss of
any fire-retardant. Dry powder also has the virtue that an amateur can see where it's going and where it's been. For really enclosed spaces that you can flood, yes, nothing better (eg engine cavities/rooms with CO2 plumbed in). Dry powder is a mess once fired and yes, you ahve to get rid of it fast, but this is one reason why _CO2_ conventionally is recommended for electrical fires. BTW, foam is still the most effective agent for unenclosed liquid fires but I'm not suggesting carrying foam, CO2 and dry powder (+pressurised water from the pump) on a 30' boat so that one can tackle each fire with the best agent. Dry powder remains the best all-rounder but like all all-rounders is not necessarily the best at a specific job. Joe wrote: Flying Tadpole wrote in message ... Dry chemical extinguishers are IMO the worst choice anyone can make to use. CO2 is the way to go. Dry make a god aweful mess and are not the most effective for different types of fires. Only thing I can think they are good for is an electrical fire, but be prepared to rip out everything the chemical touches. Purple K is by far the most destructive fire suppressent ever made. Joe 1. Inspect pressure gauge (where fitted). If it's out of the green, get it professionally serviced anyway (or if a cheapie, buy a new one). If it's dribbling powder, ditto. 2. Alongside your ear, tilt the extinguished gently. If the powder is properly free, you should both hear it and feel the transfer of weight as it literally flows from one end of the extinguisher to the other. 3. if 2. doesn't work at all, or not much, grab a rubber tyre mallet or other padded mallet (but NOT a sledgehammer, or anything that will give a really sharp blow). 4. With the mallet, tap the base of the extinguisher gently until the dry powder flows as in 2. If it's badly caked, this may take a lot of taps. AVoid the temptation to beat the sh*t out of it after the fifteenth tap. 5. Regularly (eg each time you're down at the boat) give it both a shake and turn upside down lsitening to the powder flow. if it doesn't, reservice. 6. throw out those teeny extinguishers and get at least a 1.5kg, in multiples. wrote: This is exactly why you should have multiple ABC extinquishers, placed strategically around the boat. The C.G. minimums are woefully inadequate. Buy bigger, and more. Here's a little tip to make sure they are working when you need them: When routinely safety checking your boat, remove each extinguisher from it's bracket and shake the hell out of it. The main reason for failure in these extinguishers, besides leakdown, is caking of the powder. BB -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Break Away, Sail Away and putz away now at http://music.download.com/internetopera |
What If #4-Answer
"Jeff Morris" wrote ... Sorry about the delay - I've been away for a few days. BTW, I was 125 miles from my berth - how far offshore was I? Not at all? |
What If #4-Answer
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
... Well, how likely is it? An 8' standing wave isn't that big of a wave. The only part that's you're going to break through is the very top. How likely is it that you're going to be dumb enough to be sailing around with an open forward hatch? Even then, it wouldn't sink the boat, just slosh some water in. I suppose really dumb people get what they deserve. If you go into a standing wave with the current, it will be steep enough for some boats to go through, rather than over it. This is especially true if you're coming down the backside of the previous wave. In this case, an open forward hatch could certainly take in a lot of water. BTW, Plum Gut is one for the strongest currents on the East Coast - 5 to 6 knots is common. |
What If #4-Answer
Right, but the fix is simple. Don't sail with a forward hatch open.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... Well, how likely is it? An 8' standing wave isn't that big of a wave. The only part that's you're going to break through is the very top. How likely is it that you're going to be dumb enough to be sailing around with an open forward hatch? Even then, it wouldn't sink the boat, just slosh some water in. I suppose really dumb people get what they deserve. If you go into a standing wave with the current, it will be steep enough for some boats to go through, rather than over it. This is especially true if you're coming down the backside of the previous wave. In this case, an open forward hatch could certainly take in a lot of water. BTW, Plum Gut is one for the strongest currents on the East Coast - 5 to 6 knots is common. |
How to service and keep in service a dry powder extinguisher
"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message ... Scotty, the main problem with the 1kg weenies Why do you assume that is what I have? is they just don't squirt for very long, Yeah, me too as I age. Scotty |
How to service and keep in service a dry powder extinguisher
I have a 2.5lb right inside the companionway, a 5lb on the mast support pole
, and a 2.5 on a shelf (will eventually go in the laz). Good thread. I just checked some of my home extinguishers. Some are caked. My two 17lb are not caked but a little low on pressure. I have 8 of the big water/air pressure ones in the barn and garage. Scotty "Flying Tadpole" wrote in message ... Scott Vernon wrote: Would several small ones, placed strategically around the boat, be better than one (or 2) big one? Depends on the boat. Where are people going to be when a fire breaks out? On Lady Kate, the two likely places for a fire outbreak are the motor/fuel store, and (tops) the galley. The four most likely places for people to be are the cockpit (which is small on Lady Kate), the galley, the forward saloon or the sleeping quarters below the cockpit. I carry two 2.5kg extinguishers: one is at the galley, easily accessible from the cockpit and by anyone fleeing up the companionway ladder out of the galley. It would not be reachable by someone in the forward saloon, so that's where the other unit is carried. Because i'm singlehanding usually, the stern sleeping quarters aren't regularly used: I should really have a small unit in there too. The motor is outboard and the fuel is in a free-draining well outside the watertight envelope: the galley extinguisher serves as first attack there too. Kay Cottee ('First Lady') carried four in a 37' 6'11" beam boat, but that was for six months round the world non-stop. Size isn't specified, the one visible in a photo in the book looks like a 2-2.5kg and I'd be surprised if they were only 1kg. Now, design your own. Does it make a difference if they are hung horizontally, as far as the caking? Not really, just cakes horizontally so it doesn't flow cleanly. And a really bad idea is to hang upside down, cos then it cakes and jams the nozzle/release! Scotty, the main problem with the 1kg weenies is they just don't squirt for very long, and there's a tendency in an emergency to anxiously hold the trigger open until it runs out. Then if there's a flareup, there's nothing left. (In a lot of respects, the old, forbidden BCF was a much better extinguisher for enclosed and semi-enclosed places, provided you remembered not to die of asphyxiation--fire it and shut the lid!) A 1kg will do for a small car provided it's not asked to do too much, but for a boat the size everyone here claims to have, especially for those who leave maked flames untended, no doubt under the deep frier Scotty "Flying Tadpole" wrote in message ... wrote: On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:53:32 +0930, Flying Tadpole wrote: This is a device that may be called upon to save your boat, your life, or the lives of others. If you need to hit it with a hammer, it is way past due for replacement, regardless of what the 3 cent gauge says, or what you hear flowing. A new extinguisher is about $20-$30. Jeez. Stick to insipid verse. You're extremely no good at this. BB You're an even bigger fool than your repartee would suggest, and you can't read either. What hammer? WHat hit? Throw away good extinguishers because the powder has caked slightly? My extinguishers come in at about $150 each, which is what you pay for size and ruggedness (say, $US70). You want to play with weeny toys and bet your life on them, go right ahead. I'm sure you could find some 1/4lb extinguishers on ebay, secondhand, for $5 if you looked hard enough. For other readers: 6 months is enough for the powder to cake significantly, even with a bit of a shake from time to time. The how-to given IN FULL in my original post is straight out of commercial (and professional) practice. -- SSO (ret'd) Flying Tadpole, BFSA(lapsed!) ------------------------- Break Away, Sail Away and putz away now at http://music.download.com/internetopera -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Break Away, Sail Away and putz away now at http://music.download.com/internetopera |
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