What If #4-Answer
 

If your friend in the NYFD advices sealing the fire, please have him
explain the need for Fire Axes on their trucks.


Sorry, Thom. Your dead wrong. For years the FDNY has been running a campaign
"Close the Door" as part of their effort to save lives.
Read on from the FDNY site....


Get everyone out. Stay low as you go out. Close but don't lock all doors in the
apartment as you leave.
Alert others on the floor by knocking on doors. Activate the fire alarm if
there is one.
Go down the nearest STAIRWAY, holding the railing.
Call the Fire Department from a floor BELOW THE FIRE or from a street fire
alarm box outside.
If the Fire is NOT in Your Apartment
Stay inside rather than entering smoke-filled hallways, especially if the fire
is on a floor below your apartment.
Keep your door closed.
Seal the door with duct tape or wet sheets and towels. Seal ventilators and any
other openings where smoke may enter.
Turn off air conditioners.
Fill your bathtub with water. If the front door gets hot, wet it down.
Unless flames or smoke are coming from below, open your windows a few inches at
the top or bottom. Don't break the windows; they may need to be closed later.
Call the Fire Department with your apartment number and a description of the
conditions in your apartment. Firefighters will be directed to your location.
If you feel you are in grave danger, open a window and wave a bed sheet for
firefighters to spot you.

The link...http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/sa...highrise.shtml

Like I said, Thom. I didn't make this up. It's basic fire survival. Closing the
door is the final defense, cutting off the heat from you and limiting oxygen to
the fire.

RB

What If #4--Thom, Scotty and Donal wrong again
 

And still more for you, Thom. As you can see I was 100% right and Ozzy and a
few others saw the sense...or at least looked it up.

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/022298tip2.htm

Procedures for Fighting a Fire Onboard

RESTRICT the fire
Shut off air supply to the fire - close hatches, ports, etc.
De-energize electrical systems in affected space
Set fire boundaries to confine the fire
Shut off fuel supply and ventilation
Maneuver vessel to minimize the effect of wind on the fire
Prior to activating fixed extinguishing system, ensure that all personnel have
been evacuated from the space

Even at your age, you can still learn a few things, Thom. I don't know what
donal's excuse is. Scotty's excuse is that he's a bloody moron.

RB

What If #4-Answer
 

Thom, it's well known that sealing off afire will help contain it.


No worries, Ozzy. I just posted links that should quiet him down. He's quite
peppy lately!

RB

What If #4-Answer
 

Oz & Nutsy,

For the both of you, the Axes are used to vent the Fire areas. This is
to minimize the danger of explosion. Cutting a hole in the roof of a
burning building isn't done to rescue personnel. It is done to prevent
"FLASH BACK" down below.

Good God!! Guys do you close up your vessel during fuelling? I think
that the both of you should do some serious research, and fast, about
fire safety.

A ship board fire should be fought and extinguished until it is out or
you have to step up to your "Inflatable" Remember the best method is
not to have one. Any fire left UNATTENDED, should be left with a plan to
fight the fire is it gets out of hand.

Ole Thom

What If #4-Answer
 

They are stored below so as not to be lost overboard. Please tell us
where you keep yours and how you secure it and we'll look for it in your
pictures that you have posted. :^)


You lose again, Thom. The hatchboard is generally kept in the cockpit locker.
You just can't admit your wrong, Thom. Pretty sad for an old fella.

RB

What If #4-Answer
 

Good God!! Guys do you close up your vessel during fuelling? I think
that the both of you should do some serious research, and fast, about
fire safety.


Thom, I posted links showing you're wrong. The final line of defense is to
confine and slow the fire. Again, try READING the facts....Scroll down to
RESTRICT THE FIRE section and learn.

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/022298tip2.htm

RB

What If #4--Thom, Scotty and Donal wrong again
 

Nutsy,

You've made quite a few good points. I'm not sure yet. They are
setting-up the fire area to make ready for the activation of the
installed extinguishing system. This I have to agree with. The area
needs to be sealed. They are still talking of putting the fire out.
They aren't talking about sealing and leaving!! This is still my point.

I don't have an extinguishing system!! I would have to bring down my
Jenny and soak it in the water and try and use it to smother the fire
and feeding water with a bucket to keep it wet. For this I would need
the companion way. If I couldn't enter, I'd use the whisker pole and
boat hook to position the wet Jenny. If I couldn't get to the forward
part of the cabin I'd use the Hatchet, I keep in the stern locker with
the bolt cutters I keep there. (To cut away a knocked down mast) to chop
a hole in the coach roof. I would be getting water on that damned fire.

That scenario you post for the High Rise in NYC really doesn't apply to
a vessel on the High Sea. In my mind!

I admit you made some points but I think you have applied them wrong.
You can't run out into the street or wave a sheet out the window for a
fireman.

It is just you and your vessel against the damned fire. PUT IT OUT.
Don't set up an explosion. That would be THE END

Ole Thom

What If #4--Thom, Scotty and Donal wrong again
 

So Nutsy,

I guess you came up with enough research to back your point. I'm tipping
my hat to you, and honoring your answer.

Your point and serve!!

However, I don't think you can seal the Cabin due to vents, bilge limber
holes, shower drains, etc. I've sealed my engine area by using "Pampers"
but the rest of the bilge is connected. Will it support combustion? I
don't know? I do vent the Pilothouse when I use the "Heat Pal" alcohol
heater to maintain oxygen level.

I have to defer to your point of view. So, I give you; Check and Mate.

Ole Thom

What If #4--Thom, Scotty and Donal wrong again
 

In article , Thom
Stewart wrote:

Nutsy,

You've made quite a few good points. I'm not sure yet. They are
setting-up the fire area to make ready for the activation of the
installed extinguishing system. This I have to agree with. The area
needs to be sealed. They are still talking of putting the fire out.
They aren't talking about sealing and leaving!! This is still my point.

I don't have an extinguishing system!! I would have to bring down my
Jenny and soak it in the water and try and use it to smother the fire
and feeding water with a bucket to keep it wet. For this I would need
the companion way. If I couldn't enter, I'd use the whisker pole and
boat hook to position the wet Jenny. If I couldn't get to the forward
part of the cabin I'd use the Hatchet, I keep in the stern locker with
the bolt cutters I keep there. (To cut away a knocked down mast) to chop
a hole in the coach roof. I would be getting water on that damned fire.

That scenario you post for the High Rise in NYC really doesn't apply to
a vessel on the High Sea. In my mind!

Didn't read Bob****'s post but the 'seal up the space' scenario does
happen on big ships which are designed/built with watertight, airtight
doors and halon firefighting systems.

Been there done that. First we tried to snuff the fire and when it was
obvious we couldn't, sealed the spaces and released the halon. Waited
hours to see if the space was cooling or not. 24 hours later,
re-entered the space to check it out and start fixing the mess. This is
a one-shot; if the fire flares again your halon system is gone and so
is the ship so you do wait and then you enter the space wearing full BA
and close the door behind you to minimise oxygen entry.

I don't recommend ever trying this unless there's no other choice.
However I doubt its applicability to small pleasure craft. As part of
our biannual training we fight fires in simulated bilge spaces. Putting
out an oil based fire when it can reflash from a space out of reach of
extinguishers (under deck plates etc) is a real *******. How many small
pleasure craft can seal well enough to choke off airflow? A steel boat,
maybe, but even an aluminium boat, the Al melts at a bit under 660C and
distorts/slumps earlier. Even if the boat seals at ambient temperature,
it probably won't with a heated gas plume and open fire going.

PDW

What If #4--Thom, Scotty and Donal wrong again
 

ANd the moral of that tail is not to let Bobsprit's scenario even
begin to start. The cook stays in the galley while an open liquid
(or gas)flame is on. If some other emergency arises requiring
ondeck attendance, then a twist of th wrist will shut the flame
off...!

(solid fuel fires are simple: open the seacocks...)

Peter Wiley wrote:

In article , Thom
Stewart wrote:

Nutsy,

You've made quite a few good points. I'm not sure yet. They are
setting-up the fire area to make ready for the activation of the
installed extinguishing system. This I have to agree with. The area
needs to be sealed. They are still talking of putting the fire out.
They aren't talking about sealing and leaving!! This is still my point.

I don't have an extinguishing system!! I would have to bring down my
Jenny and soak it in the water and try and use it to smother the fire
and feeding water with a bucket to keep it wet. For this I would need
the companion way. If I couldn't enter, I'd use the whisker pole and
boat hook to position the wet Jenny. If I couldn't get to the forward
part of the cabin I'd use the Hatchet, I keep in the stern locker with
the bolt cutters I keep there. (To cut away a knocked down mast) to chop
a hole in the coach roof. I would be getting water on that damned fire.

That scenario you post for the High Rise in NYC really doesn't apply to
a vessel on the High Sea. In my mind!

Didn't read Bob****'s post but the 'seal up the space' scenario does
happen on big ships which are designed/built with watertight, airtight
doors and halon firefighting systems.

Been there done that. First we tried to snuff the fire and when it was
obvious we couldn't, sealed the spaces and released the halon. Waited
hours to see if the space was cooling or not. 24 hours later,
re-entered the space to check it out and start fixing the mess. This is
a one-shot; if the fire flares again your halon system is gone and so
is the ship so you do wait and then you enter the space wearing full BA
and close the door behind you to minimise oxygen entry.

I don't recommend ever trying this unless there's no other choice.
However I doubt its applicability to small pleasure craft. As part of
our biannual training we fight fires in simulated bilge spaces. Putting
out an oil based fire when it can reflash from a space out of reach of
extinguishers (under deck plates etc) is a real *******. How many small
pleasure craft can seal well enough to choke off airflow? A steel boat,
maybe, but even an aluminium boat, the Al melts at a bit under 660C and
distorts/slumps earlier. Even if the boat seals at ambient temperature,
it probably won't with a heated gas plume and open fire going.

PDW