Jeff Morris wrote:
Are you actually claiming that God must exist because evolution isn't possible.
That's pretty lame.

What other options are there? WE either evolved, or we were created!


And while you might have made an interesting claim that humans couldn't evolve
in the rather narrow time period they seem to have, you're claiming that the
full age of the Earth is not sufficient. Its pretty clear that there's been
plenty of time. Mammals have had roughly 100,000,000 generations to evolve.
That's a real long time - we've only had a 100 generations since Biblical times.
And mammals have only been around for the last few percent of the timeline.

I find it odd that some people try to use "science" to prove the existence of
God.

Why?

Belief in God should be an absolute act of faith.

Incorrect. Many religions demand absolute faith - which is quite
different.


Arguing for the
existence of God on scientific or logical grounds is accepting the possibility
that someone could simply provide a stronger argument the God doesn't exist.

True. However, if you have Faith, then you know that nobody will be
able to provide a stronger argument.

If
you want to believe, fine - but don't try to prove that your faith is justified.

I've been discussing the existence of God, not faith. Why do you think
that I shouldn't argue for the existence of God?


I find it strange that people get so defensive when evidence is put
forward that suggests that God must exist.




Regards


Donal
--

What other options are there? WE either evolved, or we were created!

Donal, there is total proof of evolution simply by the fact that genetic skin
pigment exists according to climate. Biological Adaptation is evolution.

RB

(Bobsprit) wrote in message ...
What other options are there? WE either evolved, or we were created!

Donal, there is total proof of evolution simply by the fact that genetic skin
pigment exists according to climate. Biological Adaptation is evolution.

RB


Bobnospirt,

There had to be creation before evolution.
Simple logic.
Or there would be nothing to evolve.

Joe

There had to be creation before evolution.
Simple logic.

Josie, Simple logic also dictates that someone/thing had to create god. If you
say he was "always here" then I simply reply, so was the universe.
Logic isn't for you, Josephine!

RB

(Bobsprit) wrote in message ...
There had to be creation before evolution.
Simple logic.

Josie, Simple logic also dictates that someone/thing had to create god. If you
say he was "always here" then I simply reply, so was the universe.
Logic isn't for you, Josephine!

RB


Boobsie,

The universe (including time itself) can be shown to have had a
beginning.

Correct?

It is unreasonable to believe something could begin to exist without a
cause.

Correct?

The universe therefore requires a cause.

Correct?

Einstein's theory of general relativity shows that time is linked to
matter and space. So time itself would have begun along with matter
and space. Since God, by definition, is the creator of the whole
universe, he is the creator of time. Therefore He is not limited by
the time dimension He created, so has no beginning in time. Therefore
He doesn't have a cause.

God, as creator of time, is outside of time. Since therefore he has no
beginning in time, He has always existed, so doesn't need a cause.

It is self-evident that things that begin have a cause. All science
and history would collapse if this law of cause and effect were
denied. The universe cannot be self-caused — nothing can create
itself, because that would mean that it existed before it came into
existence, which is a logical absurdity.

Simple Logic Boobsie

And why arent you out in the harbor with a boat load of skimply
dressed alien girls welcoming the fleet?

Joe

Boobsie,

The universe (including time itself) can be shown to have had a
beginning.

Nope. Got a video of it?


RB

(Bobsprit) wrote in message ...
Boobsie,

The universe (including time itself) can be shown to have had a
beginning.

Nope. Got a video of it?


RB

1st Law: The total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant.
2nd Law: The amount of energy available for work is running out, or
entropy is increasing to a maximum.


If the total amount of mass-energy is limited, and the amount of
usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed
forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted all usable energy —
the ‘heat death' of the universe. For example, all radioactive atoms
would have decayed, every part of the universe would be the same
temperature, and no further work would be possible. So the obvious
corollary is that the universe began a finite time ago with a lot of
usable energy, and is now running down.

Simple Logic Boobsie, But your not much for logic are you?

Joe

It is unreasonable to believe something could begin to exist without a
cause.

No, not unreasonable...just very difficult.

RB

(Bobsprit) wrote in message ...
It is unreasonable to believe something could begin to exist without a
cause.

No, not unreasonable...just very difficult.

RB

Tell me of anything that begin to exist without a cause boobsie.

And do not be unreasonable.

Joe

The universe therefore requires a cause.

Correct?

Then so does your "god." Saying he exists outside of time is just something you
made up. Pretty silly, Josie!

RB