Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Or how about that perfect sunrise or sunset that awakens your soul.
Ever have that feeling inside of awe. Must of been something you ate
huh?

Poor blobster. All alone....

Beauty is abstract and personal. I'm married to a beautiful sailing woman who
also cringes at the word "faith." To her, it's a word that goes right along
with Terrorists, God's Children and a million perversions a day.
What is good and right stand alone. They don't need a "god."

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

It's easy to see why religion kills so many.

It's easier to see why ignorance kills more.

Since more people have been driven to kill over religion, perhaps you'd
explain? Religion IS ignorance. It preaches to abandon other ideas and belief
systems. Thou who believeth in me must close thy mind forever!

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

An agnostic is someone who doesn't believe in God, but is afraid he might be
wrong.

Not correct, but why should anyone be "afraid" about being wrong? Do you mean
god will hurt me for asking questions?
I see.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

If you are not willing to stand for something, you will fall for
anything.

Exactly...and you fell for the whole "man in the sky" fable.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

The "terrorists" faith seems to have been true.

But the spirt was rotten and festered.

That's what they think about your faith. Both sides are wrong. ALL faith is
rotten.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

You have read it here folks, they are both as low as whale ****. And
thats on the bottom of the ocean.

Actually, whale excrement floats.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

I was raised by a scientific family who taught me the rules of nature 1st and
morality second.

A telling admission.

Right, I'll never kill because of "god."

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Yes.



Oh boy. Did you get your boat in the water and sailing?

Are you the only person who doesn't know?




Regards


Donal
--

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On 20 May 2004 11:16:31 GMT, (Bobsprit) said:

Nope. I'm agnostic. That means I'm open to anything.

An agnostic is someone who doesn't believe in God, but is afraid he might be
wrong.


No. An agnostic is someone who doesn't want to consider a question that can't
be answered.

While some religions require that followers "have faith" in things that can
never be proven, others merely request that you act as though there is a
divinity watching over you. Thus a religion can be based on "creed" or "deed."
If you believe that "deeds" are important, you don't have to believe God exists
to be religious, you only have to act as though God exists.

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

"Wally" wrote in message
...
I'm not sure the question can be answered. By "answered", I mean in terms
that are generally acceptable - self-evidently true or capable of being
observed or experienced.

I believe that one of my three options is currently "in vogue" with the
scienticic community. Furthermore, scientists will produce evidence, backed
up by observation, to prove that their theory is correct. So I think that
the question *can* be answered in terms that are generally acceptable.


Regards


Donal
--

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Wrong blubberboy, They know the diffrence from right and wrong, no one
had to teach them that, they just chose to ignoe it.

Note how you call me nasty names, yet profess a higher understanding and
morality? I, on the other hand, can debate this without stooping to name
calling.
I think it's pretty clear how much value religion has had in your life.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

How's that ? Were have I ever mentioned a Man in the sky?

Your confusing spirt and faith, with religion.


Snore. Whenever someone's faith is brought into serious question, they pretend
it in something that defies personifcation or even comprehention. No one (at
this time) can prove you spirits are false, just realize and accept that it's
possible to live well without them. Try to be better than Hitler and the
terrorists if you must bow before false gods.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
3) It was created in a single event which resulted in equal amounts of
"matter" and "anti-matter".


Which option do you believe in?

Bwahaahaha! Pretty funny, Donal. I'm smart enough to not simply blindly
except
what some clown tells me. "God" was taught to you, just as it was taught
to me.

Read my post again!! I gave three options. Only one of them depended on
"God". I'm prepared to discuss the issue on a purely scientific basis.


The difference is, I had the strength of character to question it.

But - you didn't question it, did you? You just blew a big rasberry at the
whole question - and then you tried to pretend that your superior intellect
gave you a better understanding. However, as you are unable to share your
views with us, then we must assume that you don't really have any views at
all.

Prove me wrong! You cannot tell us about your views - because you don't
have any!


Regards


Donal
--

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Virtually
everybody has faith - it's a question of what one has faith in.

I have no faith in anything,

C'mon, Bob! You don't really believe that, do you?



Wally. It's a dangerous term. But then you could
say I have faith in my lack of faith.
You'll note that I'm attacking Donal's belief system, but not Donal.

I know that you are a really nice guy. I truly respect you for that!!

He, on the
other hand, attacks me.

If I had realised that you suffered from a "victim" mentality, then I would
have ignored you completely.

Unfortunately, if I ignored you, then you really would feel like a victim,
wouldn't you?






As I pointed out, reigious folk tend to seek out a
dangerous and hurtful position.



That comment is hurtful! Are you religious?



Regards


Donal
--

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
So angry you
think the actions of murdering 1000's of citizens trying to make a
living was justified.


Like GWB????




Regards


Donal
--

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

OK science boy. Einstien said "for every action there is an equal and
opposite reation"

On those lines you must admit if there is good then there is bad.
Good spirt, bad spirts.

Not correct. Einstein spoke of physics and energy, not abstract beliefs. You
score a 0 for attempting to assign values mathamatical levels.
If you truly want to use science here, then consider that thought is
electro-chemical in nature and being "right or wrong" both operate within the
same limits.
Doesn't say much for any god, now does it?

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Whale vomit floats, used for years in the production of perfume. Whale ****
sinks.

Whale **** floats and Ambergis is not vomit.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

He, on the
other hand, attacks me.

If I had realised that you suffered from a "victim" mentality, then I would
have ignored you completely.

Donal, we can discuss beliefs without taking it to a personal level. I respect
you for two reasons: 1-You sail. 2- You seem to have a sense of humor. There's
really very little else I can tell from what's written here, but in this group
you MUST have those two items to survive.
Ultimately, I believe that the key reason people continue to believe in god is
because they are unable to cope with the idea of dying; of not being. The
control commanded by various religions is totally based on a promised "quality
of afterlife." Meanwhile, our biology and real world efforts are clearly geared
to the reality of a final and complete end.
If that seems sad, consider that many wonderful things (Roses, sunsets, the
life of a beloved dog) all end quickly, making them all the more special. We
need not invent a heaven for them, or ourselves.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Donal wrote:

I believe that one of my three options is currently "in vogue" with
the scienticic community.

Is that the same as saying that those hypotheses that don't agree with the
fashionable one have been falsified?


Furthermore, scientists will produce
evidence, backed up by observation, to prove that their theory is
correct.

Are there other scientists that will produce different evidence to prove
that *their* theory is correct?


So I think that the question *can* be answered in terms
that are generally acceptable.

You can tell someone that the sun is warm, and prove it by standing them in
the sun to feel its warmth. If I tell somone that god made the universe, how
do I show him or make him experience it? Ditto for a big bang or a cyclical
thing that has always been.

The universe is big.

Really big.

Honest, I'm not kidding.

We're sitting here on our speck of molten iron, throwing radio stations into
space, while we shoot around in something that is flabbergastingly huge. I'm
a little skeptical of the notion that we've acquired enough data to go
making proclamations of how it all began, or whether it did or didn't begin
at all.


--
Wally
www.forthsailing.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

As I pointed out, reigious folk tend to seek out a
dangerous and hurtful position.



That comment is hurtful!

But it's an honest observation. Religious people do one of the following when
questioned about their faith:
1) They kill
2) They attempt to belittle the independent thinker, attempting to kill the
idea.
3) They shun the person.
4) They try to force their ideas on the person.
I'm not saying you do these things, though your posts indicate that you might.
The true moral highground is not tolerance, it's wholehearted acceptance. Some
of my best friends are religious. We've gently exchanged ideas and philosophy
and moved on. If I'm right about it all, I'll never get to say "told ya so." If
I'm wrong, maybe god will explain why his "creation" is so poorly crafted. If
the Rages of Injustice equal power in heaven, I'll have his job...and one
"hell" of a sailboat.....A Swan 40 with the interior of a Swan 100 perhaps.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

I'm prepared to discuss the issue on a purely scientific basis.

Honestly, Donal, I don't get the impression that you are prepared at all.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

The difference is, I had the strength of character to question it.

But - you didn't question it, did you?

Of course I questioned it, point by point, years ago, again and again and
through many debates and discussions. I made a decision, based on my control of
fear. Fear is what drives all religion of course. That is what takes character.
When 98% of the world believe in God and Santa, I've hardly taken the easy
route. And I take FULL resposnibility for my actions. Again, character. You'd
better think again and remember the word "flock." It says it all.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

I've seen and felt it blobster.


Sure you have. When you learn to converse with respect and dignity, perhaps
someone might believe you.
At the moment you sound angry and spiteful. I wish you well with your issues.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Spirt is something you can feel, sometimes if your lucky see.

Yes, the other "refuge" of religious folk; that they are somehow special,
"touched by divinity."
Everyone dreams of have special powers when they are young. The sad part is
that most never truly grow up. Enjoy your "spirit" or "sprit" or whatever.
Yikes.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
He, on the
other hand, attacks me.

If I had realised that you suffered from a "victim" mentality, then I
would
have ignored you completely.

Donal, we can discuss beliefs without taking it to a personal level. I
respect
you for two reasons: 1-You sail.

Hah!! You do have faith!


2- You seem to have a sense of humor. There's
really very little else I can tell from what's written here, but in this
group
you MUST have those two items to survive.
Ultimately, I believe that the key reason people continue to believe in
god is
because they are unable to cope with the idea of dying; of not being.

I disagree. If you look at my posts, you will see that my views have a
scientific base. I would ask that you consider my original question - and
also my three options regarding the origins of the Universe.



The
control commanded by various religions is totally based on a promised
"quality
of afterlife." Meanwhile, our biology and real world efforts are clearly
geared
to the reality of a final and complete end.
If that seems sad, consider that many wonderful things (Roses, sunsets,
the
life of a beloved dog) all end quickly, making them all the more special.
We
need not invent a heaven for them, or ourselves.

Once again, I invite you to highlight *anything* in my posts that could be
deemed "unscientific".

I don't have blind faith. I've worked it out.

Regards


Donal
--

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

I wish I could bottle it and sell it.

You can. What your described is exactly what can be felt through a wide variety
of drugs. And it's repeatable. It all takes place in your own head and not from
some external force...just like the "tunnel of light" dying folks claim to see.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Quick question: Do you have feelings of love for your wife?

If so... using science tell me about love?


Love, anger, hate...all are being traced and slowly understood and very complex
electro-chemical responses. Sorry, this is already pretty well established
fact. External stimuli are factors, but there are no special spirits involved.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Oh boy. Did you get your boat in the water and sailing?

Are you the only person who doesn't know?

Scotty posted that he had not sailed his boat yet. Did you miss that post?

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Since more people have been driven to kill over religion, perhaps you'd
explain?

Because the largest groups of people on earth were members of
religions.

And specific belief systems were used to drive the hate mechanism. More good
work from god.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

It's not religion persay. It is the interperters that use religion as
a tool to get,instead of give.

God created the interpreters. Can't he do anything right?

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

Guess that is why that Jesus guy was so well thought of. He was always
giving and seems to truly care.

You met this Jesus guy. 25 years after Elvis death, and no one can even agree
on how he died, what he ate or even if he's actually dead! And that's with
todays much more advanced record keeping and media. But you KNOW Jesus was a
caring fellow.
Oh, okay.

RB

Yacht Clubs--a mistake
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
As I pointed out, reigious folk tend to seek out a
dangerous and hurtful position.



That comment is hurtful!

But it's an honest observation. Religious people do one of the following
when
questioned about their faith:
1) They kill

Nonsense!

2) They attempt to belittle the independent thinker, attempting to kill
the
idea.

Rubbish!

3) They shun the person.



4) They try to force their ideas on the person.
I'm not saying you do these things, though your posts indicate that you
might.

Tsk. Tsk. (with acknowledgements to Wally)


The true moral highground is not tolerance, it's wholehearted acceptance.

You're absolutely correct!

Some
of my best friends are religious.

Uh oh! That sounds like "Some of my best friends are black"!!!!

We've gently exchanged ideas and philosophy
and moved on. If I'm right about it all, I'll never get to say "told ya
so."

Of course. You're not that kind of guy, are you?


If
I'm wrong, maybe god will explain why his "creation" is so poorly crafted.
If
the Rages of Injustice equal power in heaven, I'll have his job...and one
"hell" of a sailboat.....A Swan 40 with the interior of a Swan 100
perhaps.


Ahhh! You make the mistake of thinking that mankind is important in the
eyes of God. Why would we be?

Regards


Donal
--