MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

katysails wrote:

Jim claimed:
I don't think I've ever seen any of
those "not" conditions. - But I'll keep an eye out for them.


And that's another reason why you don't belong here...everyone else knew
what that meant...

Actually, I knew what you meant too, Katy. It was just too tempting.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I'm still here because it's clear that the ng needs some balance and
fresh air and differing viewpoints on some issues. And also because
some Mac owners have come on the group and been intimidated and driven
off, and because I frankly don't like your attitude.

What HASN'T been explained is why you and your buddies are so very
concerned and stressed out about my remarks that you can't simply press
the "down button" and move on to another topic. Why do you want to
continue wasting time in this discussion if you REALLY think my comments
are totally insignificant and absurd and without merit? It should be
clear to you by now that you aren't going to drive me away. - So what's
keeping you in this discussion? Why can't you just leave it alone?

Jim



Scott Vernon wrote:

Yup.


"Jim Cate" wrote


As long as I keep posting the same crap over and over and over and over

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over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and again, I'll look like a fool.

Jim MacGregor

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Prove it. I think you bought it a few weeks ago. I have it on
good authority. Prove I'm wrong.

I placed the order for the Mac on March 25. My initial note on this ng
was posted February 25. Prior to ordering the Mac, I was seriously
considering several other boats, as mentioned in some of my other notes
posted in February and March.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Scott Vernon wrote:

Then why are you still here?


Because: there weren't very many owners of the
new 26M, and I thought I might get some further substantive information
from this group, which is larger than the Mac group. I'm remaining on
the ng because it's become increasingly obvious that many on this ng
have become opinionated, set in their ways and rigid in their views, and
because the ng needs some new insights and some contributors who are
willing to state and defend some differing points of view.

Jim


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Scott Vernon wrote:


Jimbo, did you ask your silly questions on the Mac list, like I

suggested?

SV


Yes. The great majority on the Mac lists have one of the the older
models. I did correspond with and speak with some 26M owners.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Because he's either stupid, a troll, or trying to justify his poor choice.


Then why are you sticking around in this discussion, John? Can't let it go?

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:16:19 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:



felton wrote:

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:49:36 -0400, "Scott Vernon"
wrote:


are you under the impression that a mac26 is double hulled?

SV


He may be thinking that a liner is a second hull, which will prevent
him from sinking if one of those drunken powerboaters hits him doing
60mph. Perhaps Macs have foam floatation, as most of them would
otherwise be on the bottom. If I make it up to the Valiant yard in
the next few days, perhaps I will suggest that they may want to
"improve" their boats with some of these innovations:)

Here is a question for Jim...a drunken powerboater is heading towards
you. You can elect to be in a Valiant or a Mac. Which do you
choose?:) If you are really so naive as to think that a Mac 26 is a
more survivable boat in any scenario than a Valiant or any other
"real" sailboat, then thanks for the comic relief.


If I could anticipate that a drunken powerboater were going to hit me
going 50 mph, I would prefer a Valiant, although even then, I don't
think you could predict what would happen. (It's possible that the hull
of the Valiant would be compromised, in which case its keel would
quickly pull it to the bottom.) But a new Valiant would cost around
$400,000, normally equiped, or more than 10 times the cost of the Mac
loaded with navigation and autosteering. - You can't always get what you
want, but sometimes, if you try real hard, you just might get what you
need. - Which in my case is the 26M.

Hmmm. Moving the goalposts it would seem. Of course a Valiant is a
vastly more expensive boat that frankly is "overkill" for the kind of
sailing that you or I do. I am unclear why you keep choosing to
compare the Mac to the Valiant, but since you do I keep pointing out
the obvious. The fact that no Valiant has ever gone to the bottom but
have logged many a circumnavigation should put your mind at ease, but
yet the fact that you still cling to the belief that a 3500lb clorox
bottle is somehow "safer" than a Valiant, or any "real" sailboat,
speaks volumes to any real sailor.



Now, let me ask you a question. - If you were sailing in a displacemenet
boat in unexpected high winds, and you had your son tethered to the boat
for safety, and it became obvious that the boat was going to founder,
would you prefer that the boat have positive foam flotation, as in the
MacGregor, or would you prefer that your son be on a discplacement boat
with a heavy keel that would drag the boat and its occupants to the
bottom within a few minutes?

I would absolutely prefer to be on a displacement boat than rely on
foam floatation in a lightly built clorox bottle. There is absolutely
no doubt in my mind which would be the safer boat. My boat has a real
rig, unlike the Mac. I can depower my rig, shorten sail, or even go
bare poles if need be. Anyone on a Mac 26 is going to be SOL. It
really doesn't give me much comfort knowing that there may be some
foam floatation on which I can cling waiting for rescue.


The obvious solution to your dilemma was to have chosen a marina
closer to where you wish to sail. You can drive a car faster than
even the motorboat you have chosen will go. I will grant you that if
your only criteria was how fast you can motor in your "sailboat", then
you have probably chosen wisely. For $30k you could have bought a
pretty decent powerboat instead. Live and learn.

Felton, I don't like power boats. I want the power capabilities of the Mac
because it will enable us to get to good blue water sailing areas more
quickly, and also
permit us to fish, and let our grandkids play safely in shallow water,
or beach the boat. It will also permit us to motor out, do some sailing
and some fishing and/or some swimming, and motor back within a few
hours, rather than taking the entire weekend.

Jim

While I am not a fan of powerboats either, given your objectives, you
should have bought one. A Mac 26 is the worst of both worlds.
Something for everyone, I suppose. Someone even married my ex-wife:)

p,


"Jim Cate" wrote 6 times...

(1) - If the lower hull is compromised, the inner hull remains.

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Perhaps you should look at the drawings of your beloved boat - its doesn't have
a double hull either. The portion of the hull the is protected by the ballast
tank is about a third of the underwater surface - and its the part least likely
to be damaged in a collision. If you hit a log (especially at speed) you're
going to need that foam flotation. And the boat will be a total loss, the
engine certainly wasted. BTW, they never actually say that there is enough foam
to float the boat if the engine is attached, do they? Do you think they
destroyed a $8000 engine just to take that picture?

And, if you have any damage to the ballast tank, it could lose water and the
partially filled tank becomes dangerously unstable. This is not so bad if
you're on a lake where the mac belongs, but offshore this becomes treacherous.

So the question is, would you prefer a boat with a solid hull that can withstand
a beating without being compromised, or one that is likely to be compromised by
a minor collision?





"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


wrote:

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:54:53 -0400, "Scott Vernon"
wrote:


wrote

are you under the impression that a mac26 is double hulled?


It is double hulled, but the space in between the layers is water ballast,

which

gives you a head start on filling up the rest of the boat with water.

and the space in-between your ears is a vacuum if you think the Mac is
double hulled.



Scotty,

There is a space between the bottom of the boat and the floor of the
boat. It is a tank for water ballast. Jim thinks that means the same
thing as double hulled.

Whether or not you call it a second hull, it is a second wall that preents
entry of water into the cabin if the lower hull is compromised. - Does
the Valiant have one of these back-up walls? I didn't see one on the one
we sailed.

Jim
barrier that would pre or not

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

I try not to speculate too much.

Not so. You're willing to speculate all over the place about the 26M,
despite the fact that you haven't sailed one or spoken with anyone
who has.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

We're just trying to save others from the same fate that has befallen you.

Frankly, the mac is not a bad boat if you stay in a calm lake. It's pretty
expensive, and it depreciates faster than any other boat made, but its does have
some unique qualities. But claiming that the real advantage is that you can
quickly get to "blue water" is just plain stupid.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
I'm still here because it's clear that the ng needs some balance and
fresh air and differing viewpoints on some issues. And also because
some Mac owners have come on the group and been intimidated and driven
off, and because I frankly don't like your attitude.

What HASN'T been explained is why you and your buddies are so very
concerned and stressed out about my remarks that you can't simply press
the "down button" and move on to another topic. Why do you want to
continue wasting time in this discussion if you REALLY think my comments
are totally insignificant and absurd and without merit? It should be
clear to you by now that you aren't going to drive me away. - So what's
keeping you in this discussion? Why can't you just leave it alone?

Jim



Scott Vernon wrote:

Yup.


"Jim Cate" wrote


As long as I keep posting the same crap over and over and over and over

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over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and again, I'll look like a fool.

Jim MacGregor

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Wally wrote:

Jim Cate wrote:


This isn't what happened at all. I posted my questions several times
on this an on the cruising ng and scanned the reponses for over a
month hoping to get some factual or substantive information regarding
the 26M. It was only after weeks of "Mac bashings" ...


What, you came into a sailing newsgroup to enquire about about a boat you
knew little about, it's gets slagged off something rotten for a month...

...and then you go and *buy* one?

Nobody is that stupid.

You have it bass-ass backwards, Wally. I came onto this newsgroups
hoping to get some substantive, factual information. Instead, I found
out that most of the Mac-bashers have never sailed the current Mac 26,
and don't know what the hell they are talking about, yet despite this,
don't hesitate to pontificate and sneer and try to intimidate anyone who
likes the boat. This reveals to me that the Mac-bashers are either: (1)
stupid (2) incapable of rational thought, or (3) liar. In any event, it
put my mind at ease with respect to what I thought might be some
problems with the Mac, other than its inherent limitations that I
already knew. Thus, my decision was simplified, and I proceeded to
place my order. Because they are substantially sold out for the rest of
the summer, I'll be one of the fortunate few who will be able to take
delivery of this spectacular and innovated boat this season.

Jim