MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

And, he replaces a lot of fenders.

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
No one in this newsgroup owns a high quality boat.....

LOL................. But you own a high stern ladder.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Well, what is it? I'm thinking you don't have a boat. That's
ok, but if you do, what is it? Got pictures?

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:52:58 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Not talking about average retail. I'm talking about your boat.


My particular boat would go for above the average due to extremely
good condition and equipment.

BB


wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:39:33 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"

wrote:

I've forgotten... what kind of boat do you own? Do you
think it'll go up in value?


My boat model's average retail is slightly higher today than the
original
selling price... And don't worry about today's dollar versus 1986
dollars.
During those years, I've taken equity in the form of use out of the
boat
that
more than makes up for inflation. Nobody goes sailing to save money,
anyway.

What did Porta Scotty's Siedlemann go for new? What would it reasonably
bring
today. Don't forget to factor in that Scotty probably paid too much for
it. What
did your Cal20 go for new? What would it resonably sell for today?

BB

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:52:45 -0500, "Scott Vernon"

wrote:

I see your math is no better than your English.



You are right! $30k would probably get you at least 15 or more
Sidelmanns
in
today's market. They sure aren't ever going to go UP in value.

BB


wrote in message
.. .
On 01 Mar 2004 23:15:48 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

But maybe $30K is a horrendous lot
of money to you, Jax?


It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....

A J30 and a J24
Two Pearson 30s
A C&C 30 late model
A Catalina 30 late 80's
A Bristol 29.5

And so on....

RB

or an even dozen Sidelmanns!

BB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

It's really not almost worth the wait to find out.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Wait till his kid does a Google and finds out how much of an asshole his
ol
man is. :o

SV


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Total bs and, of course, a lie.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to
take
any
of
it seriously.

Which you are 85% responsible for yourself.

That's in the past. There are only a few trollers left in this NG now.
I
was
not "warned by AOL" or contacted by them in any way. I just got
stunningly
bored with it all; the same insults day after day. It was enough
already.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jim Cate wrote:

And how many times have you sailed on the 26M, DK? - Was it five times,
ten times, fifteen? I seem to have forgotten.

Gosh, you're so right... it's gotta be better than the old one... it's NEW & IMPROVED!!

BTW it does not not have a new hull design. Exactly the same, only painted darker colors
which does not improve sailng characteristics as far as anybody has been able to
determine. And the ones I have seen certainly don't have rotating masts either.... anyway
that would be a waste of time on a boat with a PHRF rating of 216.

The two Mac26Ms at our marina I have seen out sailing a dozen times or so. They are not
even a match for the San Juan 21, of which there is a strong local class, which rates
252. The SJ21 literally sails rings around the M26M. Figure it out.

The point, Jim, is to enjoy your time on the water. If you happen to not care about
sailing other than to have some sails up and hear the wake gurgling, then go for it. If
you enjoy really *sailing* then you'll be disappointed. Doesn't matter to me one way or
the other.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jim,
Waterline length is actually a rather poor indicator of performance and is only
useful when comparing boats of similar design. It only measures the length when
level in calm water, and does not measure the effective length when heeled and
with bow and stern wave generated. Further, even if it predicts "hull speed"
(not a fixed limit, but the speed where wave making resistance grows
dramatically), it says nothing about how effective the rig is in generating a
driving force.

Also, PHRF ratings must be taken with a grain of salt. By definition, they only
tell the performance under race conditions, and not leisurely cruising. For
instance, much of the data is from upwind sailing - certainly an important point
of sailing, but one that many cruisers will avoid, especially when carrying
guests. Also, most rating include spinnakers, sometimes large racing chutes
that you are not likely to use with an inexperience crew.

Also remember that certain configurations don't fit well in traditional
estimates. A Nonsuch 30, for instance, is the equal of many 36 foots in almost
all regards except length on deck. On the other hand, the Mac 26X may appeal to
some as a reasonable "flat water" boat is very much out of its element even in a
moderate chop (sailing, at least). (I've never seen the new Mac, but very
little this company has produced over the years has impressed me.)

here's a few useful links:
http://www.phrfne.org/baseh.htm
http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html


--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send back soup
at the deli."



"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
Bob,

Can you give me some hints as to which popular boats have good PHRF
ratings? Also, from their specs, it seems that the C&C's have a
relatively short water-line for their length. - Does this limit the hull
speed you get from your 32?

Jim


Bobsprit wrote:

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim, as you can see there are a LOT of used boats around. I tend to follow
the
idea that buying a reasonably respectable brand is a good idea. Without that
you could end up stuck with her.
My favorite used boats: Pearson, C&C, Tartan, bristol, Catalina and quite a
few
more makes, models and odd designs. You need to get aboard and see what
"fits"
and what pleases your eye first and foremost. Learn to read the numbers.
Sail
area/Disp. and PHRF ratings are a good initial inidcator for how a design
will
treat you under sail. Above all, take your time. There are always
compromises,
but you can shave them down. If financial limits have you looking at lesser
boats, perhaps it's worth saving a bit longer. You never know when a magic
deal
will float along. My wife and I sold our Pearson 30 when we were married. We
were going to wait 2 or 3 years and then buy a big boat. Then I had the
chance
to buy a C&C 32 for 16K. So, while waiting for the "big" boat plan, we still
get to sail a nice boat. I think the watchword is patience. If you're in a
hurry the wrong boat may find YOU! That's happened to at least 2 people in
this
group.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Hey Doug,My Hobie had a rotating mast, I can't remember exactly how the
shrouds were mounted but I'm guessing they just 'twisted' a bit with the
mast. How would a mast with spreaders be able to rotate?

Scotty

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Jim Cate wrote:

And how many times have you sailed on the 26M, DK? - Was it five times,
ten times, fifteen? I seem to have forgotten.

Gosh, you're so right... it's gotta be better than the old one... it's NEW
& IMPROVED!!

BTW it does not not have a new hull design. Exactly the same, only painted
darker colors
which does not improve sailng characteristics as far as anybody has been
able to
determine. And the ones I have seen certainly don't have rotating masts
either.... anyway
that would be a waste of time on a boat with a PHRF rating of 216.

The two Mac26Ms at our marina I have seen out sailing a dozen times or so.
They are not
even a match for the San Juan 21, of which there is a strong local class,
which rates
252. The SJ21 literally sails rings around the M26M. Figure it out.

The point, Jim, is to enjoy your time on the water. If you happen to not
care about
sailing other than to have some sails up and hear the wake gurgling, then
go for it. If
you enjoy really *sailing* then you'll be disappointed. Doesn't matter to
me one way or
the other.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Could a WB boat, like the Mac, legally race without the water ballast in?

SV


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Jim,
Waterline length is actually a rather poor indicator of performance and is
only
useful when comparing boats of similar design. It only measures the
length when
level in calm water, and does not measure the effective length when heeled
and
with bow and stern wave generated. Further, even if it predicts "hull
speed"
(not a fixed limit, but the speed where wave making resistance grows
dramatically), it says nothing about how effective the rig is in
generating a
driving force.

Also, PHRF ratings must be taken with a grain of salt. By definition,
they only
tell the performance under race conditions, and not leisurely cruising.
For
instance, much of the data is from upwind sailing - certainly an important
point
of sailing, but one that many cruisers will avoid, especially when
carrying
guests. Also, most rating include spinnakers, sometimes large racing
chutes
that you are not likely to use with an inexperience crew.

Also remember that certain configurations don't fit well in traditional
estimates. A Nonsuch 30, for instance, is the equal of many 36 foots in
almost
all regards except length on deck. On the other hand, the Mac 26X may
appeal to
some as a reasonable "flat water" boat is very much out of its element
even in a
moderate chop (sailing, at least). (I've never seen the new Mac, but very
little this company has produced over the years has impressed me.)

here's a few useful links:
http://www.phrfne.org/baseh.htm
http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html


--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send
back soup
at the deli."



"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
Bob,

Can you give me some hints as to which popular boats have good PHRF
ratings? Also, from their specs, it seems that the C&C's have a
relatively short water-line for their length. - Does this limit the hull
speed you get from your 32?

Jim


Bobsprit wrote:

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim, as you can see there are a LOT of used boats around. I tend to
follow
the
idea that buying a reasonably respectable brand is a good idea.
Without that
you could end up stuck with her.
My favorite used boats: Pearson, C&C, Tartan, bristol, Catalina and
quite a
few
more makes, models and odd designs. You need to get aboard and see
what
"fits"
and what pleases your eye first and foremost. Learn to read the
numbers.
Sail
area/Disp. and PHRF ratings are a good initial inidcator for how a
design
will
treat you under sail. Above all, take your time. There are always
compromises,
but you can shave them down. If financial limits have you looking at
lesser
boats, perhaps it's worth saving a bit longer. You never know when a
magic
deal
will float along. My wife and I sold our Pearson 30 when we were
married. We
were going to wait 2 or 3 years and then buy a big boat. Then I had
the
chance
to buy a C&C 32 for 16K. So, while waiting for the "big" boat plan, we
still
get to sail a nice boat. I think the watchword is patience. If you're
in a
hurry the wrong boat may find YOU! That's happened to at least 2
people in
this
group.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
I'm worried about what others will think? So I continue to defend the
MacGregor boats and respond to the cynics on ASA who have never sailed
the boat, but nevertheless, know all about it?

Interesting. For my information, just what would someone who DIDN'T
care what others think post on the ASA ng?


Well they wouldn't write ;

Also, of course, owning a larger,
traditional boat would certainly get me more respect from fellow
sailors, whereas sailing a Mac 26 will make me the subject of continued
ridicule and disdain (I should expect continued comments like: He
doesn't know enough about sailboats to realize what a mistake he
made...").


as you did.

SV

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jim, to be truthful, I haven't sailed the boat, and I haven't talked to
anyone who has, but I've seen them and they are butt ugly , high freeboard,
powerboat boat looking, plastic bathtubs.

Scotty



"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


My point is not that I know or have evidence to the effect that the M
model is a good sailing and/or motoring vessel. Not at all. It's that,
if we are going to give any consideration whatsoever to the most
fundamental principles of logic, reasoning, clear thinking, etc., then
those who criticize the new boat should preface their remarks by saying
"Jim, to be truthful, I haven't sailed the boat, and I haven't talked to
anyone who has, so actually you should understand that I really don't
know what the Hell I'm talking about."

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

The rules may be different for various fleets, but I thought that generally
water ballast must be used on WB boats. Also, I think moveable keels or
centerboards that provide ballast, must be down.



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Could a WB boat, like the Mac, legally race without the water ballast in?

SV


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Jim,
Waterline length is actually a rather poor indicator of performance and is
only
useful when comparing boats of similar design. It only measures the
length when
level in calm water, and does not measure the effective length when heeled
and
with bow and stern wave generated. Further, even if it predicts "hull
speed"
(not a fixed limit, but the speed where wave making resistance grows
dramatically), it says nothing about how effective the rig is in
generating a
driving force.

Also, PHRF ratings must be taken with a grain of salt. By definition,
they only
tell the performance under race conditions, and not leisurely cruising.
For
instance, much of the data is from upwind sailing - certainly an important
point
of sailing, but one that many cruisers will avoid, especially when
carrying
guests. Also, most rating include spinnakers, sometimes large racing
chutes
that you are not likely to use with an inexperience crew.

Also remember that certain configurations don't fit well in traditional
estimates. A Nonsuch 30, for instance, is the equal of many 36 foots in
almost
all regards except length on deck. On the other hand, the Mac 26X may
appeal to
some as a reasonable "flat water" boat is very much out of its element
even in a
moderate chop (sailing, at least). (I've never seen the new Mac, but very
little this company has produced over the years has impressed me.)

here's a few useful links:
http://www.phrfne.org/baseh.htm
http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html


--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send
back soup
at the deli."



"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
Bob,

Can you give me some hints as to which popular boats have good PHRF
ratings? Also, from their specs, it seems that the C&C's have a
relatively short water-line for their length. - Does this limit the hull
speed you get from your 32?

Jim


Bobsprit wrote:

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim, as you can see there are a LOT of used boats around. I tend to
follow
the
idea that buying a reasonably respectable brand is a good idea.
Without that
you could end up stuck with her.
My favorite used boats: Pearson, C&C, Tartan, bristol, Catalina and
quite a
few
more makes, models and odd designs. You need to get aboard and see
what
"fits"
and what pleases your eye first and foremost. Learn to read the
numbers.
Sail
area/Disp. and PHRF ratings are a good initial inidcator for how a
design
will
treat you under sail. Above all, take your time. There are always
compromises,
but you can shave them down. If financial limits have you looking at
lesser
boats, perhaps it's worth saving a bit longer. You never know when a
magic
deal
will float along. My wife and I sold our Pearson 30 when we were
married. We
were going to wait 2 or 3 years and then buy a big boat. Then I had
the
chance
to buy a C&C 32 for 16K. So, while waiting for the "big" boat plan, we
still
get to sail a nice boat. I think the watchword is patience. If you're
in a
hurry the wrong boat may find YOU! That's happened to at least 2
people in
this
group.

RB