MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

In article , Joe
wrote:

Jim Cate wrote in message
...

Translation of the below message:

I bought a Mac, and I need someone to tell me it's OK.

Yeah, that's what it reads like to me, too. I've never even seen one,
so have no opinion pro/con, but I see a made-up mind.

PDW

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jeff, you have a fine boat, but a Swan or Shannon it aint. Maybe Loco thinks
his Express is on that level or maybe he's never been aboard a 1st class yacht,
which is more probable. .

The Express isn't a Swan but it's a step up from a C&C.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

A big step? Is that why they have those huge ladders?

"SAIL LOCO" wrote

The Express isn't a Swan but it's a step up from a C&C.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Joe wrote:
Jim Cate wrote in message ...

Translation of the below message:

I bought a Mac, and I need someone to tell me it's OK.


Nope. I can afford a nice 32-ft. Catalina, Pearson, Cal, etc., but I'm
not sure whether I can afford the MacGregor 26M. I suppose it's a case
of you get what you pay for, particularly if you want current technology.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

And how many times have you sailed on the 26M, DK? - Was it five times,
ten times, fifteen? I seem to have forgotten.

Jim

DSK wrote:

SAIL LOCO wrote:


Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best choice
for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of fishing you
can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the Mac and
you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.


Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or "M" if that's
what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who can't make up
their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing. First of all,
the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power, unless you
either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom open in 1
season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers, cooler, mast,
etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot faster than
most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real motorboat,
and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a marina
closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving large amounts
of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at 65mph)... with
the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble, you
probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult, because I
have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I'm worried about what others will think? So I continue to defend the
MacGregor boats and respond to the cynics on ASA who have never sailed
the boat, but nevertheless, know all about it?

Interesting. For my information, just what would someone who DIDN'T
care what others think post on the ASA ng?

Jim



Scott Vernon wrote:

That's the first I've seen the 'M' model. Looks like they took a big step
backwards re the cabin, which looks exactly like the old (pre 'X') 26'. The
hull still has that ugly step in it, and the gross power-boat type
'windows'.
I've seen a few Xs sailing and talked to a few owners who really love them.
They're not bad boats for their purpose (shallow draft/power/sailboat) if
you can get past the look. Not for ocean sailing, though.
If you really want to talk to owners, Sailnet has a Mac mailing list, and
one just for X owners.

It sounds like you're worried what others will think. In that case, stay
away from the Mac.

S.Vernon

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:


SAIL LOCO wrote:



Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best

choice

for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of

fishing you

can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the

Mac and

you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.


Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or

"M" if that's

what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who

can't make up

their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing.

First of all,

the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power,

unless you

either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom

open in 1

season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers,

cooler, mast,

etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot

faster than

most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real

motorboat,

and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a

marina

closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving

large amounts

of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at

65mph)... with

the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble,

you

probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult,

because I

have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Thanks for the suggestions. As noted previously, most of my sailing
experience over the past 25 years has been on larger boats, in the 30-35
ft range, that we chartered for family vacations. We would live aboard
the boats for a week, sailing (sometimes in in some pretty high winds),
swimming, cooking meals and sleeping at anchor. I've had training from
several sailing "schools," including an Annapolis Sailing School nav and
heavy boat handling course. So, although I'm sure there are many more
experienced sailors on this ng, I'm well-aware that such heavier boats
are "better" than the MacGregor in a number of ways, particularly for
blue water sailing. The 40 foot Valiant, for example, had three
mainsail reefing lines led to the cockpit, color coded, such that you
could adjust the main to any desired reefing point without leaving the
cockpit, along with roller furling on the jib, plus a staysail.- It was
stable and fast and great for sailing in blue water, making some 9 knots
with the staysail and jib up. Also, of course, owning a larger,
traditional boat would certainly get me more respect from fellow
sailors, whereas sailing a Mac 26 will make me the subject of continued
ridicule and disdain (I should expect continued comments like: He
doesn't know enough about sailboats to realize what a mistake he
made...").

But for our area and conditions and the anticipated uses of the boat,
I'm not sure that these heavier boats would be the best choice or
provide the greatest enjoyment and satisfaction, which I suppose is the
ultimate criteria. (Remember that I can still charter a variety of
larger boats when desired.) In the Kehmah-Seabrook (Houston) area, we
have some huge marinas with thousands of beautiful sailboats of all
types and sizes. But most of these boats sit in their slips in the
marinas for 99.9 percent of the time. - I have had friends tell me
that, after the initial purchase, they had such difficulty in getting
time to go out and in getting crews to go with them, that the boat sat
there, with ongoing maintenance costs, bottom treatments, marina fees,
insurance, etc., so that they finally sold the boat. In my particular
situation, my former crew (my kids) is not available, and my wife
doesn't seem to be too keen on getting out in anything but ideal
weather. Maybe I could get some of my friends to go, but probably not on
the schedule or frequency I would prefer, and I'm not sure I want to go
out on a large boat by myself, even with roller furling, etc. As
mentioned, we have grandkids who I think would not enjoy the relatively
extended motoring and cruising time entailed in getting a heavy boat to
good sailing areas as is necessary in our area and then back to the
dock. For family outings, the Mac has the advantage that you can anchor
it in shallow water, or beach it on an island, etc. (I'll investigate
other marina choices, however.)

Regarding the new Mac model 26M, several pretty substantial changes have
been made as compared with the 26X model. They include a new hull
design entailing a deeper, heavier, 15 degree bottom, rounded corners at
the sides, a partial lead ballast rather than full water ballast, a
flatter hull, adjustable dagger board rather than pivotable fin keel,
rotatable mast, additional fiberglass and roving, etc. WHETHER OR NOT
these changes are going to be effective in improving the handling and
performance of the boat, they are significant, substantive changes, so I
don't think it is logical or reasonable to describe the handling and
performance of the new M model based on observations or (usually)
hearsay relating to the older models. The interior of the boat is open,
with lots of windows, and gives the impression that you are on a much
larger boat. (The Valiant 40 that we sailed in the gulf had a
traditional interior that was segregated into several cabins, and the
main salon was therefore not exceptionally roomy or bright and
"cheery.") (By the way, the Mac 26 can be powered with a much larger
motor if you want high speeds and water-skiing capability. - I don't
need or want to go over around 18-20mph, which is still three times
faster than most fixed keel boats.) On the other hand, I don't know how
the new boat sails or handles under power, which is why I posted my
questions. Their video of the M and S models saling side-by-side shows
the M model sailing by the older model as if it were standing still.
Again, I don't know if the "race" was rigged, etc. - You might want to
take a look at the video, that can be downloaded from the MacGregor
site.

Meanwhile, I'll also be looking at some of the larger used boats for
sale in our area. Apparently, I can get an older 30-32 Cal, Catalina,
C&C, etc., for about the same price as a fully equipped Mac 26.
Conditions and needed repairs and maintenance are another question, of
course.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

jim, buy the damn thing. nobody but nobody will laugh at you. why should
they?

I'm worried about what others will think? So I continue to defend the
MacGregor boats and respond to the cynics on ASA who have never sailed
the boat, but nevertheless, know all about it?

Interesting. For my information, just what would someone who DIDN'T
care what others think post on the ASA ng?

Jim



Scott Vernon wrote:

That's the first I've seen the 'M' model. Looks like they took a big step
backwards re the cabin, which looks exactly like the old (pre 'X') 26'. The
hull still has that ugly step in it, and the gross power-boat type
'windows'.
I've seen a few Xs sailing and talked to a few owners who really love them.
They're not bad boats for their purpose (shallow draft/power/sailboat) if
you can get past the look. Not for ocean sailing, though.
If you really want to talk to owners, Sailnet has a Mac mailing list, and
one just for X owners.

It sounds like you're worried what others will think. In that case, stay
away from the Mac.

S.Vernon

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:


SAIL LOCO wrote:



Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best

choice

for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of

fishing you

can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the

Mac and

you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.


Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or

"M" if that's

what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who

can't make up

their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing.

First of all,

the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power,

unless you

either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom

open in 1

season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers,

cooler, mast,

etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot

faster than

most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real

motorboat,

and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a

marina

closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving

large amounts

of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at

65mph)... with

the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble,

you

probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult,

because I

have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Thanks for the suggestions. As noted previously, most of my sailing
experience over the past 25 years has been on larger boats, in the 30-35
ft range, that we chartered for family vacations. We would live aboard
the boats for a week, sailing (sometimes in in some pretty high winds),
swimming, cooking meals and sleeping at anchor. I've had training from
several sailing "schools," including an Annapolis Sailing School nav and
heavy boat handling course. So, although I'm sure there are many more
experienced sailors on this ng, I'm well-aware that such heavier boats
are "better" than the MacGregor in a number of ways, particularly for
blue water sailing. The 40 foot Valiant, for example, had three
mainsail reefing lines led to the cockpit, color coded, such that you
could adjust the main to any desired reefing point without leaving the
cockpit, along with roller furling on the jib, plus a staysail.- It was
stable and fast and great for sailing in blue water, making some 9 knots
with the staysail and jib up. Also, of course, owning a larger,
traditional boat would certainly get me more respect from fellow
sailors, whereas sailing a Mac 26 will make me the subject of continued
ridicule and disdain (I should expect continued comments like: He
doesn't know enough about sailboats to realize what a mistake he
made...").

But for our area and conditions and the anticipated uses of the boat,
I'm not sure that these heavier boats would be the best choice or
provide the greatest enjoyment and satisfaction, which I suppose is the
ultimate criteria. (Remember that I can still charter a variety of
larger boats when desired.) In the Kehmah-Seabrook (Houston) area, we
have some huge marinas with thousands of beautiful sailboats of all
types and sizes. But most of these boats sit in their slips in the
marinas for 99.9 percent of the time. - I have had friends tell me
that, after the initial purchase, they had such difficulty in getting
time to go out and in getting crews to go with them, that the boat sat
there, with ongoing maintenance costs, bottom treatments, marina fees,
insurance, etc., so that they finally sold the boat. In my particular
situation, my former crew (my kids) is not available, and my wife
doesn't seem to be too keen on getting out in anything but ideal
weather. Maybe I could get some of my friends to go, but probably not on
the schedule or frequency I would prefer, and I'm not sure I want to go
out on a large boat by myself, even with roller furling, etc. As
mentioned, we have grandkids who I think would not enjoy the relatively
extended motoring and cruising time entailed in getting a heavy boat to
good sailing areas as is necessary in our area and then back to the
dock. For family outings, the Mac has the advantage that you can anchor
it in shallow water, or beach it on an island, etc. (I'll investigate
other marina choices, however.)

Regarding the new Mac model 26M, several pretty substantial changes have
been made as compared with the 26X model. They include a new hull
design entailing a deeper, heavier, 15 degree bottom, rounded corners at
the sides, a partial lead ballast rather than full water ballast, a
flatter hull, adjustable dagger board rather than pivotable fin keel,
rotatable mast, additional fiberglass and roving, etc. WHETHER OR NOT
these changes are going to be effective in improving the handling and
performance of the boat, they are significant, substantive changes, so I
don't think it is logical or reasonable to describe the handling and
performance of the new M model based on observations or (usually)
hearsay relating to the older models. The interior of the boat is open,
with lots of windows, and gives the impression that you are on a much
larger boat. (The Valiant 40 that we sailed in the gulf had a
traditional interior that was segregated into several cabins, and the
main salon was therefore not exceptionally roomy or bright and
"cheery.") (By the way, the Mac 26 can be powered with a much larger
motor if you want high speeds and water-skiing capability. - I don't
need or want to go over around 18-20mph, which is still three times
faster than most fixed keel boats.) On the other hand, I don't know how
the new boat sails or handles under power, which is why I posted my
questions. Their video of the M and S models saling side-by-side shows
the M model sailing by the older model as if it were standing still.
Again, I don't know if the "race" was rigged, etc. - You might want to
take a look at the video, that can be downloaded from the MacGregor
site.

Meanwhile, I'll also be looking at some of the larger used boats for
sale in our area. Apparently, I can get an older 30-32 Cal, Catalina,
C&C, etc., for about the same price as a fully equipped Mac 26.
Conditions and needed repairs and maintenance are another question, of
course.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

The "M" model has a new deep V- hull, an adjustable dagger board keel,
a rotatable mast, additional layers of fiberglass in the hull, SS chain
plates, partial fixed lead ballast, and a number of other changes. -
Whether these changes bring the boat up to acceptable off-shore sailing
standards or not, they ARE substantive differences relative to the
previous model. From discussing the boat with owners and previous
owners, it seems that it's speed and handling under both sail and motor
are significantly improved relative to the previous model. It is
apparently 20-30% faster under similar sails than the X model, and the
deep V hull seems to slice through waves smoothly with little braking or
bouncing, based on the video of the two boats.

My point is not that I know or have evidence to the effect that the M
model is a good sailing and/or motoring vessel. Not at all. It's that,
if we are going to give any consideration whatsoever to the most
fundamental principles of logic, reasoning, clear thinking, etc., then
those who criticize the new boat should preface their remarks by saying
"Jim, to be truthful, I haven't sailed the boat, and I haven't talked to
anyone who has, so actually you should understand that I really don't
know what the Hell I'm talking about."

In the interest of logic and rationality and intellectual honesty, I
think this would clear up most of the confusion and obfuscation that has
been involved in this discussion.

Jim


s I'vefor example,

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Not at all. I think the X version are trash. The M isn't as bad as
that and is capable of sailing on the bay (for example) without
compromising one's safety. It's a different boat.
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

Oh please. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.


What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Are you supporting the
Mac26X as a viable vessel?

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Bob,

Can you give me some hints as to which popular boats have good PHRF
ratings? Also, from their specs, it seems that the C&C's have a
relatively short water-line for their length. - Does this limit the hull
speed you get from your 32?

Jim


Bobsprit wrote:

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim, as you can see there are a LOT of used boats around. I tend to follow the
idea that buying a reasonably respectable brand is a good idea. Without that
you could end up stuck with her.
My favorite used boats: Pearson, C&C, Tartan, bristol, Catalina and quite a few
more makes, models and odd designs. You need to get aboard and see what "fits"
and what pleases your eye first and foremost. Learn to read the numbers. Sail
area/Disp. and PHRF ratings are a good initial inidcator for how a design will
treat you under sail. Above all, take your time. There are always compromises,
but you can shave them down. If financial limits have you looking at lesser
boats, perhaps it's worth saving a bit longer. You never know when a magic deal
will float along. My wife and I sold our Pearson 30 when we were married. We
were going to wait 2 or 3 years and then buy a big boat. Then I had the chance
to buy a C&C 32 for 16K. So, while waiting for the "big" boat plan, we still
get to sail a nice boat. I think the watchword is patience. If you're in a
hurry the wrong boat may find YOU! That's happened to at least 2 people in this
group.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

jim, buy the damned thing. nobody is going to laugh at you, and those who do
are just jealous. be a man among men, jim. go for it.

The "M" model has a new deep V- hull, an adjustable dagger board keel,
a rotatable mast, additional layers of fiberglass in the hull, SS chain
plates, partial fixed lead ballast, and a number of other changes. -
Whether these changes bring the boat up to acceptable off-shore sailing
standards or not, they ARE substantive differences relative to the
previous model. From discussing the boat with owners and previous
owners, it seems that it's speed and handling under both sail and motor
are significantly improved relative to the previous model. It is
apparently 20-30% faster under similar sails than the X model, and the
deep V hull seems to slice through waves smoothly with little braking or
bouncing, based on the video of the two boats.

My point is not that I know or have evidence to the effect that the M
model is a good sailing and/or motoring vessel. Not at all. It's that,
if we are going to give any consideration whatsoever to the most
fundamental principles of logic, reasoning, clear thinking, etc., then
those who criticize the new boat should preface their remarks by saying
"Jim, to be truthful, I haven't sailed the boat, and I haven't talked to
anyone who has, so actually you should understand that I really don't
know what the Hell I'm talking about."

In the interest of logic and rationality and intellectual honesty, I
think this would clear up most of the confusion and obfuscation that has
been involved in this discussion.

Jim


s I'vefor example,

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Not at all. I think the X version are trash. The M isn't as bad as
that and is capable of sailing on the bay (for example) without
compromising one's safety. It's a different boat.
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

Oh please. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.


What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Are you supporting the
Mac26X as a viable vessel?

RB